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Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby STMKY » Sat, 29 Feb 2020, 11:38

Yes, Metallurg Professional Club. But they began to have a good budget only in 2019. Now they have a fairly strong composition for Russia. There are several Saffas and Georgians. Naude Wessels played for Metallurg last year. He is from Perth, he used to play there.
https://www.instagram.com/noddywessels10/
Their potential for 2020 is approximately 5-8th place in the Russian Premier League. But they have a very old stadium. Probably the worst rugby stadium in the world. Although there was information that they would be allocated about $ 7 million for the construction of a new rugby stadium. While they will play in another football stadium.
Theoretically, Metallurg, if it still strengthens the composition and builds a new stadium, may be ready for GRR. But this is not earlier than in 2022. Enisei and Krasny Yar are really ready to play even tomorrow.

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Sat, 29 Feb 2020, 11:46

STMKY wrote:Yes, Metallurg Professional Club. But they began to have a good budget only in 2019. Now they have a fairly strong composition for Russia. There are several Saffas and Georgians. Naude Wessels played for Metallurg last year. He is from Perth, he used to play there.
https://www.instagram.com/noddywessels10/
Their potential for 2020 is approximately 5-8th place in the Russian Premier League. But they have a very old stadium. Probably the worst rugby stadium in the world. Although there was information that they would be allocated about $ 7 million for the construction of a new rugby stadium. While they will play in another football stadium.
Theoretically, Metallurg, if it still strengthens the composition and builds a new stadium, may be ready for GRR. But this is not earlier than in 2022. Enisei and Krasny Yar are really ready to play even tomorrow.


Maybe Metallurg could play their home games in Krasnoyarsk for GRR. It would be better for the travelling teams.

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby STMKY » Sat, 29 Feb 2020, 11:59

Another new professional club appeared in Vladivostok. Vladivostok Tigers. This is a club without DNA, traditions and its own school. Created on top. They have a sponsor Port of Vladivostok. They gave them a budget of 100 million rubles ($ 1.7 million) for the first season. They will play at level 2 in Russia. They gathered mainly young Krasnoyarsk players who do not fall into the Enisei and Krasny Yar. As well as several guys from Kazan and Moscow. I was initially against this project. But let's see. Perhaps in 2-3 years they will become potential participants in GRR.
What is the point of playing Metallurg in another city? I think that Metallurg and Vladivostok are theoretical options for the long term. They do not have such a rugby base as in Krasnoyarsk. And they cannot count on the first wave of expansion of GRR.

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Sat, 29 Feb 2020, 12:41

I was just thinking to make travel easier for the visiting team. But the way to do it would be for teams to play in Siberia on alternate years, and to play all 3 Siberian teams on the same visit, on consecutive weekends.

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby STMKY » Sat, 29 Feb 2020, 13:09

It is theoretically possible. Enisei played his home games in the Challenge Cup in general, thousands of kilometers from the house with empty stands in Krasnodar and Sochi.
If you evaluate the potential of Siberian clubs to participate in GRR at the moment.
1. Enisei - 100% readiness.
2. Krasny Yar - 90% readiness (you need 6-8 new players from the Russian national team, foreigners at the Curry Cup level).
3. Metallurg - 30% readiness (it is necessary to strengthen the composition by 50% and build a new stadium).
4. Vladivostok - 20% readiness (you need to strengthen the composition by 100%).

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby Edgar » Sat, 29 Feb 2020, 14:44

Chester-Donnelly wrote:There could be a Siberian conference.

East: Fiji, Samoa, Sydney
West: Perth, Kuala Lumpur, Singapore
North East: Sunwolves, HK, Shanghai
Siberia: Metallurg, Enisei-STM, Krasny Yar
13 rounds regular season.


4 X 3 team conferences for a competition spanning more than 10,000 kms, two hemispheres, various climates and a bunch of time zones including the International Date Line??? :roll:

What is the point in dividing this into conferences? Are they going to play each other home & away? We saw that hasn't worked too well in Super Rugby. & Will people in Sydney care about Metallurg? Will Krasny Yar's marathon journey to Samoa draw a crowd to the mini-stadium in Apia?

Who's going to finance it all? Are there some Russian billionaires champing at the bit to get involved?

I think one combined Siberian team would be far more realistic. But to be honest I don't think Rapid Rugby is the place for them anyway. If they want it to be successful they need to stay within their geographical limits and cultural boundaries. South East Asia and Oceania do have a lot of similarities, but the South Pacific and Siberia, for example, share nothing at all.

More realistically you would want to look at setting up a separate competition in the North Asia region. & I am very excited to hear Vladivostok may become host to a professional team; a largish city just a couple of hours' flight time from Japan. This would be an ideal venue for games and tournaments. :thumbup:

Meanwhile, Rapid Rugby needs to focus on the southern region and not over-stretch itself the way Super Rugby clearly did. A one-off clash between the winners of GRR and a separate North Asian championship is about as close as the two leagues should get.

Western Force romped to a massive 72-7 win over Newcastle Wildfires in their final warm-up match today ahead of the $1 million Global Rapid Rugby season. https://thewest.com.au/sport/rugby-unio ... 881476506z

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby STMKY » Sat, 29 Feb 2020, 15:31

You just look at the map of Asia. You just have the illusion that Krasnoyarsk is somewhere far away. Because Russia used to focus only on Europe. And there were no contacts with Asia. But for Krasnoyarsk, Shanghai, Hong Kong and Incheon are closer than Moscow, Penza, Krasnodar and all other trips inside Russia. It is not necessary to fly from Krasnoyarsk to Samoa. Two conferences North and South. Who play inside themselves. And they dare North - South only in the playoffs.

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby Thesjhughes » Sat, 29 Feb 2020, 19:31

During the halftime of the trial match last night the high-performance manager of Global Rapid Rugby Matt Hodgson with being interviewed He was Asked about expansion Japan was a priority and Sri Lanka Russia wasn’t not mentioned at all

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sun, 01 Mar 2020, 04:49

The locations for GGR teams have varied widely since its conception. Everywhere from Sri Lanka to Hawaii, so pretty much nothing is set in stone.

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby STMKY » Sun, 01 Mar 2020, 07:34

Thesjhughes wrote:During the halftime of the trial match last night the high-performance manager of Global Rapid Rugby Matt Hodgson with being interviewed He was Asked about expansion Japan was a priority and Sri Lanka Russia wasn’t not mentioned at all

Most likely he does not read rugby forums and simply does not know that there are quite strong professional clubs in Krasnoyarsk. Who want to play Rapid. Perhaps stereotypes do not give him the opportunity to think about it. It was necessary to ask him a clarifying question about the Russians in GRR.

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby Working Class Rugger » Sun, 01 Mar 2020, 07:46

STMKY wrote:
Thesjhughes wrote:During the halftime of the trial match last night the high-performance manager of Global Rapid Rugby Matt Hodgson with being interviewed He was Asked about expansion Japan was a priority and Sri Lanka Russia wasn’t not mentioned at all

Most likely he does not read rugby forums and simply does not know that there are quite strong professional clubs in Krasnoyarsk. Who want to play Rapid. Perhaps stereotypes do not give him the opportunity to think about it. It was necessary to ask him a clarifying question about the Russians in GRR.


Or maybe. No one from either one of those clubs has contacted GRR enquiring about entering the competition. Which is probably more realistic.

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Sun, 01 Mar 2020, 08:14

Probably a separate north Asia competition would be the way to go. Krasnoyarsk to Samoa is too far. The GRR season isn't very long. Teams in the south could also play in the NRC. Teams in the north could play their own championship.

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby STMKY » Sun, 01 Mar 2020, 09:13

There may be different formats. Of course, the Krasnoyarsk clubs did not speak with GRR. They think that GRR is not interested in them. They also have stereotypes that Asia is far away. Although they are located in the center of Asia. But they do not understand this. Because in Russia the Eurocentric mentality. It turns out a vicious circle.
I would compare this with the Russian-Chinese border. Until 1991, the inhabitants of Siberia were not in China and did not see the Chinese. And then the border was opened. And now people from Russia and China go to each other for tourism, business, study. Most Russians from Siberia were in China, but were never in Moscow.

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby victorsra » Sun, 01 Mar 2020, 12:19

OH so what was a "certain" thing isn't anymore?

The worst things for the Russians are:
- The Japanese professional league going forward (it looks like it is);
- Australia and NZ searching for GRR as a solution for the future of their professional rugby.

This would mean GRR looking south, only.
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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby STMKY » Sun, 01 Mar 2020, 14:55

If two teams from China are the South, then Krasnoyarsk is next to this South. In 3-4 hours of flight. All is well.

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Sun, 01 Mar 2020, 18:43

STMKY wrote:If two teams from China are the South, then Krasnoyarsk is next to this South. In 3-4 hours of flight. All is well.


Shanghai, Hong Kong and Kuala Lumpur are northern hemisphere.
Perth, Samoa and Fiji are southern hemisphere.

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby victorsra » Sun, 01 Mar 2020, 19:08

Please, show a link of such 4h-flight.
Last edited by victorsra on Sun, 01 Mar 2020, 21:29, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Sun, 01 Mar 2020, 20:39

Krasnoyarsk is actually a bit closer to Russian rugby cities in Europe than it is to East Asian cities.
Distance to
Moscow 3352km
Krasnodar 3887km
Shanghai 3537km
Hong Kong 4132km
Tokyo 4160km

And there are no flights to East Asian cities.

However, the distance from Krasnoyarsk to Bucharest is 4724km, so it would make sense for the European Russian teams to play in the Kontinental Club Rugby League, and for the Siberian teams to play in a North Asia competition, once there are flights running between Krasnoyarsk and Shanghai, Hong Kong and Tokyo.

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby STMKY » Mon, 02 Mar 2020, 08:19

I will make two corrections. You do not take into account the fact that in Krasnodar, Taganrog, Penza, Kazan and other western cities of Russia you can fly from Krasnoyarsk only with a transfer in Moscow. For instance. Krasnoyarsk-Moscow-Kazan-Moscow-Krasnoyarsk. Therefore, there are more distances than in China. And the second fact. You do not take into account that the Krasnoyarsk airport has become the main Asian hub of Aeroflot. And already in 2020 they plan to open direct flights from Krasnoyarsk to Shanghai, Hong Kong and other cities of Southeast Asia.

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby STMKY » Mon, 02 Mar 2020, 08:28

And one more very important fact. This is a time difference. And he is more important for the commercial league than distance. The difference in time between Krasnoyarsk and Hong Kong and other cities of GRR is only +1 hour. And the difference with Moscow and the main cities of the RPL is +4 hours. And with European cities +6 hours.
Also the tournament calendar and climate. The Challenge Cup from November to January did not allow playing matches in Siberia. And GRR from mid-March to June makes it possible to play all home games in Krasnoyarsk. Start 1-2 round on away. And from round 3, play at home.

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Mon, 02 Mar 2020, 09:10

You make some very good points.
I think it is important that Russia's Premier League continues with teams in Europe and Siberia.
But in addition the top European clubs (Slava, VVA, Kazan) should play in the Kontinental Club Rugby League. The Krasnoyarsk clubs should play in a competition with Shanghai, Hong Kong and Japanese teams (if they want to) and a Korean team when there is one. But Krasnoyarsk clubs in GRR is probably not going to happen. Siberia is not in the Asia-Pacific region. Krasnoyarsk to Samoa and Fiji is not viable.

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby STMKY » Mon, 02 Mar 2020, 09:17

It all depends on the future GRR format. Teams from Krasnoyarsk, Hong Kong, Shanghai, Incheon and possibly Japan may not necessarily play regularly against teams from the South. They can only play with them in the playoffs.

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Mon, 02 Mar 2020, 09:43

STMKY wrote:It all depends on the future GRR format. Teams from Krasnoyarsk, Hong Kong, Shanghai, Incheon and possibly Japan may not necessarily play regularly against teams from the South. They can only play with them in the playoffs.


Yes, but GRR is driven by Western Force. And I am quite sure Western Force want to play regularly against Hong Kong and even Sunwolves if possible. Western Force also plays in Australia's NRC, as does a team from Fiji. But Hong Kong's South China Tigers does not. Therefore they might be looking for another competition to play in in addition to GRR. That is the best chance Krasnoyarsk teams have of playing in an Asia competition; north Asian GRR teams looking for fixtures outside of GRR.

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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby victorsra » Mon, 02 Mar 2020, 11:53

Is there a link for the flights? I can't find anything better than a dozen hours.
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Re: Western Force potentially looking for an Asian League

Postby Edgar » Mon, 02 Mar 2020, 14:47

You'd have to go through Moscow and Australia or Japan and New Zealand or something to get to the Pacific Islands, which would take a few days, so you might as well just base the teams Down Under and play out of Sydney or something. Not to mention the expense. So, sure, if you have some Russian billionaires waiting in the wings to throw money at Sydney-based Russian teams, go ahead.

But travel is only one side of the issue, and the other is probably more of an obstacle. Russian rugby isn't remotely up to it and the style I've seen in club games is forward-oriented and not what Southern Hemisphere rugby fans tend to find attractive. & we have developed this style of play due to the firm grounds and sunny conditions Down Under. In New Zealand's case it also has a lot to do with the burgeoning Pacific Island community.

Russian clubs would only ever be able to compete by bringing in top quality foreign talent. So you're looking at teams full of foreigners playing out of Sydney, for example, begging the question: What would be the point of Russian involvement? There is an intent Down Under to look after the game in Oceania and get it up and running in Asia, including China. Not to mention that expressions of interest are already being fielded from within Australia itself.

But Russia is not our problem. It is affiliated to Europe on the far side of the planet and holds zero interest for our fans, while a marathon journey to the frozen tundra of Siberia is probably not top of the players' Bucket list either. Sorry to put it so bluntly. I'm not even sure the Krasnoyarski clubs would be genuinely interested in such a madcap scheme themselves and suspect some just want to generate rumors to spite the Muscovites.

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