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2027 RWC bids

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby jservuk » Fri, 04 Sep 2020, 19:24

STMKY wrote:Yes, it's called the overtone window.
1. Stage - LGBT.
2. Stage - pedophilia.
3. Stage - cannibalism.
Explain why your elite need it? Population decline.


Whilst I do not accept that LGBT directly leads to Pedo and Cannibalistic inclinations, the introduction in the UK of sexuality lessons to 5 year olds in definitely a symptom of the drive to normalise LGBTxxx.

If you were caught talking to kids about sex in the manner some schools are doing, not so long ago you'd have been in trouble with the law, but talking to them in a (mildly) sexualised manner positively about LGBTxxx is applauded. Not only that, in the UK you face being prosecuted if you refuse to let your children attend these lessons.

Back to RWC - I think we are moving to a phase where any country in the future will only be awarded big events unless they agree to recognise the rights of all to be whatever. It will be very interesting to see the flack and friction and tension that Qatar 2022 will bring. Russian peoples position on Gay Rights might stop Russia getting the RWC.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby victorsra » Fri, 04 Sep 2020, 19:32

The core of RWC fans are T1 nations and therefore the host must not pose any problems regarding fans safety.

But this is absolutely secondary in the discussion of the bids, as what matters is each countries rugby political power, the Council. How can Russia convince anyone being outside the Council? It won't, unless they put a bizarre money on the table (and under the table). And if they do so, they'd be dumb, as rugby doesn't worth - inside Russia and worldwide.
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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby TheStroBro » Sat, 05 Sep 2020, 05:15

victorsra wrote:The core of RWC fans are T1 nations and therefore the host must not pose any problems regarding fans safety.

But this is absolutely secondary in the discussion of the bids, as what matters is each countries rugby political power, the Council. How can Russia convince anyone being outside the Council? It won't, unless they put a bizarre money on the table (and under the table). And if they do so, they'd be dumb, as rugby doesn't worth - inside Russia and worldwide.


Not sure what you need to convince on the fan safety front, they just held a FIFA World Cup. The ability and stadia for the country to host a World Cup is a non-issue. It's based on RURs ability to deliver a host fee and do the relevant marketing over the next decade to succeed for themselves. World Rugby doesn't lose money on a World Cup, even if it fails, but it could destroy RUR or USAR for that matter. A US world cup will succeed even if the NGB sucks, the amount of tourists that come to the US from Rugby playing nations every year is immeasurable. So if anything, it would take massive missteps for it to fail. Russia? Like I said, look at results. Moscow was bad. Optically, SF RWC 7s looked great on TV when it came to number of fans.
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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby victorsra » Sat, 05 Sep 2020, 16:27

Yes, the question is much more on rugby itself.
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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby sk 88 » Fri, 11 Sep 2020, 16:44

https://www.usa.rugby/2020/09/specialty-group-of-american-rugby-stakeholders-to-support-rugby-world-cup-feasibility-study/

USA to launch feasibility study which will "provide constructive materials and ultimately support a potential USA Rugby bid for hosting the Men’s or Women’s tournament in 2025, 2027, 2029 and/or 2031. USA Rugby has no financial obligation to the feasibility study."

So potentially looking more at a Women's RWC but the sounding around the announcement do suggests men's too.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Fri, 11 Sep 2020, 16:56

sk 88 wrote:https://www.usa.rugby/2020/09/specialty-group-of-american-rugby-stakeholders-to-support-rugby-world-cup-feasibility-study/

USA to launch feasibility study which will "provide constructive materials and ultimately support a potential USA Rugby bid for hosting the Men’s or Women’s tournament in 2025, 2027, 2029 and/or 2031. USA Rugby has no financial obligation to the feasibility study."

So potentially looking more at a Women's RWC but the sounding around the announcement do suggests men's too.


Women's world cup makes a lot more sense for USA at this stage. USA women's team is much more competitive than the men's.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby victorsra » Fri, 11 Sep 2020, 18:34

Yes, but hosting a womens RWC is like hosting a U20s Championship in terms of investment, public, logistics.... Doesn't suggest anything about hosting a men's RWC.
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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby ficcp » Fri, 11 Sep 2020, 18:54

The 2031 host will be voted by the council in 2022. In 9 years, if the MLR establishes as a competitive league, USA will be able to develop a competitive team.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby victorsra » Fri, 11 Sep 2020, 19:21

Yes, it can perform like Japan in 9 years.
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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby ficcp » Fri, 11 Sep 2020, 22:39

For me, competitive teams in the RWC are those which obtain 2 victories at the group level. Japan reached that target in England 2015. Was not enough for the QF due to a point disadvantage respect to Scotland. The match between these 2 teams (Scotland scored many points ) was only 4 days after japan defeated SAF....so Japan was clearly competive back in 2015. In 2019 they were protagonists.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby victorsra » Fri, 11 Sep 2020, 23:54

I think an USA bid will have a big challenge about the calendar, as American posters already showed.

September-October is not a smart date to host a RWC there, with NFL and College Football. Both in terms of visibility and also to use the stadiums availabilty/costs (and MLS would be going on to, also impacting stadiums).

I see two options:

1) July-August
Pros: No American Football and no major impact in the European rugby leagues and whatever replaces Super Rugby. It is possible to make leagues stop a little bit earlier than June, to allow a little bit of rest + warm-up tests;
Cons: the summer heat and the end-of-season fatigue for Europe-based players...

2) June-July
Pros: No American Football and the heat is ok in June;
Cons: Major impact in the European Leagues and in the preparation of national teams - end-of-season fatigue for Europe-based players.

The European leagues can't end in April, it is too early, too close to 6N and would mess up with clubs too much. So, leagues would end no earlier than May, which means very short time between leagues finals and the RWC. However, the 6N would be basicaly the last preparation for teams before the RWC, which means TRC would need to be played in the 6N window and a Trans Tasman league moved to the second semestre. It is doable, but would be stressful...
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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Fri, 11 Sep 2020, 23:57

ficcp wrote:For me, competitive teams in the RWC are those which obtain 2 victories at the group level. Japan reached that target in England 2015. Was not enough for the QF due to a point disadvantage respect to Scotland. The match between these 2 teams (Scotland scored many points ) was only 4 days after japan defeated SAF....so Japan was clearly competive back in 2015. In 2019 they were protagonists.


I more or less agree. But I would say in 2019 there were 3 competitive tier 2 teams; Japan, Fiji and Tonga, because Tonga came close to beating France.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby sk 88 » Sat, 12 Sep 2020, 10:19

victorsra wrote:I think an USA bid will have a big challenge about the calendar, as American posters already showed.

September-October is not a smart date to host a RWC there, with NFL and College Football. Both in terms of visibility and also to use the stadiums availabilty/costs (and MLS would be going on to, also impacting stadiums).

I see two options:

1) July-August
Pros: No American Football and no major impact in the European rugby leagues and whatever replaces Super Rugby. It is possible to make leagues stop a little bit earlier than June, to allow a little bit of rest + warm-up tests;
Cons: the summer heat and the end-of-season fatigue for Europe-based players...

2) June-July
Pros: No American Football and the heat is ok in June;
Cons: Major impact in the European Leagues and in the preparation of national teams - end-of-season fatigue for Europe-based players.

The European leagues can't end in April, it is too early, too close to 6N and would mess up with clubs too much. So, leagues would end no earlier than May, which means very short time between leagues finals and the RWC. However, the 6N would be basicaly the last preparation for teams before the RWC, which means TRC would need to be played in the 6N window and a Trans Tasman league moved to the second semestre. It is doable, but would be stressful...



I thought about this a lot when coming up with my idea that's been posted here a couple of times.

There are a few points I would make:
[*] The NFL always starts at the same time, the Thursday after the first Monday in September (Labor Day).
[*] For 2027 that is weekending Saturday 11th September
[*] For 2031 that is weekending Saturday 6th September
[*] The NFL at that time of year is entirely on Thursday & Sunday, Fridays are High School & Saturday is college. College games are all on local TV, with a handful on national TV

I think the RWC semis and Final can stand out as the main TV event on those two Saturday's.

The event takes 6 weeks (in whatever format that won't change), so dates could be:
2027: 7th August to 18th September
2031: 2nd August to 13th September

That would be perfect for European Leagues, so unlikely to get much squealing from them/me for those dates. For the southern hemisphere you would basically have 6 months to play your main rugby before hand but would probably need to play some domestic games afterwards. Without a stable and predictable calendar it is hard to measure the impact on SANZAR too much.

For the US domestic league this is basically after the Major League Rugby window they seem to be aiming for of February to August, so again aligns very neatly.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby victorsra » Sat, 12 Sep 2020, 14:21

The June-July model would mess with European leagues in the season before the RWC, but not with the season after the RWC. Which means it is a bit potato-tomato from what usualy happens in clubs' perspective (usualy the season after is messed up by the RWC). The problem about June-July is indeed the time between leagues finals and RWC kickoff.

In 2031, Labour Day is on September 1st. https://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/?y ... &country=1 The RWC final could be on August 31st. This would mean, a RWC kicking off in mid July, which means European leagues would need to end by mid June, a very small workable impact. But the heat is the issue and the players being in the physical limit as they'd play after a whole 10 months European season.... they'd complete the RWC playing 11-12 months in a row...

So, in players welfare perspective, it must be June-July...
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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby victorsra » Sat, 12 Sep 2020, 14:35

To illustrate better June-July model for 2031: https://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/?y ... &country=1

- 2030-31 European club season ending by May 24th (4-5 weeks before usual, which means matches during 6N/2030 November to adapt);
- Trans-Tasman league having 17 weeks from Feb 1st to May 24th;
- Warm-up tests by June 7th;
- RWC kickoff: June 20th (possibly just a few days after NBA Finals);
- RWC final: August 3rd;
- TRC after the RWC. Same for a possible Super 8;
- Players' holidays in Europe starting as usual. Almost no impact in 2031-32 season;
Last edited by victorsra on Sat, 12 Sep 2020, 15:38, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby TheStroBro » Sat, 12 Sep 2020, 15:26

If the bid is awarded to the USA for 2031, European clubs have plenty of notice to move their season. Get rid of BS cup games in England etc. This stuff isn't that hard.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby sk 88 » Sat, 12 Sep 2020, 16:33

victorsra wrote:The June-July model would mess with European leagues in the season before the RWC, but not with the season after the RWC. Which means it is a bit potato-tomato from what usualy happens in clubs' perspective (usualy the season after is messed up by the RWC). The problem about June-July is indeed the time between leagues finals and RWC kickoff.

In 2031, Labour Day is on September 1st. https://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/?y ... &country=1 The RWC final could be on August 31st. This would mean, a RWC kicking off in mid July, which means European leagues would need to end by mid June, a very small workable impact. But the heat is the issue and the players being in the physical limit as they'd play after a whole 10 months European season.... they'd complete the RWC playing 11-12 months in a row...

So, in players welfare perspective, it must be June-July...


I really don't see the issue with overlapping the semis and finals with the NFL, there really is plenty of time and attention to go round for what are only 3 games and of course our biggest ones. Whilst I would prefer June-July to the current one I don't understand why you think that would be better than July-August even on your own workings. June-July is where it follows immediately on from the club season whenever it ends. At least last week of July & 5 weeks of August model gives rest and training time.

Hopefully the stupid July window will be binned off before it even happens and the European season will snap back to September to May as we want it. Everything fits together very neatly then.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby ficcp » Sat, 12 Sep 2020, 17:54

What about the temperature in june-July? In several cities such as Atlanta. Austin, Boston, Chicago, Denver, Houston, Las Vegas, New York, Washington DC (maximum temperature 24 ° or higher) the matches should be played at night which is a nightmare for TV transmission to Europe and Africa.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby victorsra » Sat, 12 Sep 2020, 18:13

That's an issue. But I guess the closer to August the hotter.
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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Sat, 12 Sep 2020, 18:40

Playing games early is another option. Morning games. That would work for European broadcasters.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby snapper37 » Sat, 12 Sep 2020, 19:56

1. USA has too many issues societally to even think about them hosting a world cup, hope this changes but it hasn't in 100 years so good luck on that one.
2. The size of the country would lead to a tournament with no connection if it's spread out all the place, Would be better if it was located in regions.
3. Other countries deserve a shot before them.
*Argetina
*Italy
*South Africa
*Ireland
4. I personally think a Argentina/Uruguay would make a great location for a Tournament.
5. I'm planning France already and am thinking how Australia would look if they are lucky to get 2027. But i could never imagine myself heading to the USA to see a world cup, hopefully things change over the next few years and it becomes more of a welcoming place to go and be a person of colour.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby victorsra » Sat, 12 Sep 2020, 20:04

Argentina and South Africa won't bid. No money.

Anyway, I do believe a joint USA-Canada bid would be very interesting with a focus on MLR cities, with just as couple of non-MLR venues (like Vancouver, San Francisco or Chicago).
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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Sat, 12 Sep 2020, 20:22

snapper37 wrote:2. The size of the country would lead to a tournament with no connection if it's spread out all the place, Would be better if it was located in regions.


This is a very interested thought. A world cup, for example, hosted in the South; in Texas, New Orleans and Georgia. This could help the region to really own the tournament.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby victorsra » Sat, 12 Sep 2020, 20:26

If there is a 24-teams-in-6-groups-RWC, maybe it could be 2 venues per group.

Let's say (just an exemple):

A: Toronto, Boston
B: Washington, Atlanta
C: New Orleans, Houston
D: Dallas, Austin
E: Salt Lake, Seattle
F: San Diego, Los Angeles

(All with one bigger (football) venue and one smaller (soccer) venue.

Playoffs venues: Vancouver, San Francisco (in one side), Chicago, New York (in the other bracket);
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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby TheStroBro » Sun, 13 Sep 2020, 00:10

;)
snapper37 wrote:1. USA has too many issues societally to even think about them hosting a world cup, hope this changes but it hasn't in 100 years so good luck on that one.
2. The size of the country would lead to a tournament with no connection if it's spread out all the place, Would be better if it was located in regions.
3. Other countries deserve a shot before them.
*Argetina
*Italy
*South Africa
*Ireland
4. I personally think a Argentina/Uruguay would make a great location for a Tournament.
5. I'm planning France already and am thinking how Australia would look if they are lucky to get 2027. But i could never imagine myself heading to the USA to see a world cup, hopefully things change over the next few years and it becomes more of a welcoming place to go and be a person of colour.


So your entire post is based on jealousy and what you perceive is going on here. That's like saying France shouldn't get an event because the Yellow Vest riots have been going on for two years. And RSA, you think the US has societal issues? hahahaha.

And geography, what's the problem? We have planes and stuff you know.

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