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2027 RWC bids

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Sun, 13 Sep 2020, 00:51

TheStroBro wrote:;)
snapper37 wrote:1. USA has too many issues societally to even think about them hosting a world cup, hope this changes but it hasn't in 100 years so good luck on that one.
2. The size of the country would lead to a tournament with no connection if it's spread out all the place, Would be better if it was located in regions.
3. Other countries deserve a shot before them.
*Argetina
*Italy
*South Africa
*Ireland
4. I personally think a Argentina/Uruguay would make a great location for a Tournament.
5. I'm planning France already and am thinking how Australia would look if they are lucky to get 2027. But i could never imagine myself heading to the USA to see a world cup, hopefully things change over the next few years and it becomes more of a welcoming place to go and be a person of colour.


So your entire post is based on jealousy and what you perceive is going on here. That's like saying France shouldn't get an event because the Yellow Vest riots have been going on for two years. And RSA, you think the US has societal issues? hahahaha.

And geography, what's the problem? We have planes and stuff you know.


Don't worry, these "issues societally" didn't prevent the FIFA World Cup or the Summer Olympic Games being awarded to USA, so no reason why the Rugby World Cup needs to worry about it, especially as Rugby World Cups are not in Presidential Election years. Most of these issues will disappear from view in 2021 until the next election cycle.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby snapper37 » Sun, 13 Sep 2020, 01:48

Chester-Donnelly wrote:
snapper37 wrote:2. The size of the country would lead to a tournament with no connection if it's spread out all the place, Would be better if it was located in regions.


This is a very interested thought. A world cup, for example, hosted in the South; in Texas, New Orleans and Georgia. This could help the region to really own the tournament.




Exactly..

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby snapper37 » Sun, 13 Sep 2020, 01:51

victorsra wrote:If there is a 24-teams-in-6-groups-RWC, maybe it could be 2 venues per group.

Let's say (just an exemple):

A: Toronto, Boston
B: Washington, Atlanta
C: New Orleans, Houston
D: Dallas, Austin
E: Salt Lake, Seattle
F: San Diego, Los Angeles

(All with one bigger (football) venue and one smaller (soccer) venue.

Playoffs venues: Vancouver, San Francisco (in one side), Chicago, New York (in the other bracket);



Thats the problem, there will be no connection between say Toronto/Boston and SD/LA or Wash/ ATL and Seattle Salt Lake.....that distance is huge. Keep it regionaly, Boston to the eastern sea board.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby snapper37 » Sun, 13 Sep 2020, 02:00

TheStroBro wrote:;)
snapper37 wrote:1. USA has too many issues societally to even think about them hosting a world cup, hope this changes but it hasn't in 100 years so good luck on that one.
2. The size of the country would lead to a tournament with no connection if it's spread out all the place, Would be better if it was located in regions.
3. Other countries deserve a shot before them.
*Argetina
*Italy
*South Africa
*Ireland
4. I personally think a Argentina/Uruguay would make a great location for a Tournament.
5. I'm planning France already and am thinking how Australia would look if they are lucky to get 2027. But i could never imagine myself heading to the USA to see a world cup, hopefully things change over the next few years and it becomes more of a welcoming place to go and be a person of colour.


So your entire post is based on jealousy and what you perceive is going on here. That's like saying France shouldn't get an event because the Yellow Vest riots have been going on for two years. And RSA, you think the US has societal issues? hahahaha.

And geography, what's the problem? We have planes and stuff you know.



Comparing the tax riots of France to the race riots of the USA is rich, RSA has had massive, massive struggles and from my understanding is working hard to fix a very serious injustice, not ignore them and say there isn't a problem. Thats what they did in the 60's. Sorry buddy but i don't think too many people on here are jealous of the USA at the moment, other than maybe their rugby team which seems to be on the up swing at the moment.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby victorsra » Sun, 13 Sep 2020, 03:38

snapper37 wrote:
victorsra wrote:If there is a 24-teams-in-6-groups-RWC, maybe it could be 2 venues per group.

Let's say (just an exemple):

A: Toronto, Boston
B: Washington, Atlanta
C: New Orleans, Houston
D: Dallas, Austin
E: Salt Lake, Seattle
F: San Diego, Los Angeles

(All with one bigger (football) venue and one smaller (soccer) venue.

Playoffs venues: Vancouver, San Francisco (in one side), Chicago, New York (in the other bracket);


Thats the problem, there will be no connection between say Toronto/Boston and SD/LA or Wash/ ATL and Seattle Salt Lake.....that distance is huge. Keep it regionaly, Boston to the eastern sea board.


Connection? What you mean? You don't need any common identity between venues, it only need to be a short flight and the same time zone to reduce impact on players welfare.

The only problematic duet in my list is Seattle-Salt Lake, because there is 1 hour difference in time zone. It would probably be better Denver-Salt Lake and Seattle with Vancouver/San Francisco in the playoffs.
Last edited by victorsra on Sun, 13 Sep 2020, 03:44, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby TheStroBro » Sun, 13 Sep 2020, 03:42

snapper37 wrote:
Comparing the tax riots of France to the race riots of the USA is rich, RSA has had massive, massive struggles and from my understanding is working hard to fix a very serious injustice, not ignore them and say there isn't a problem. Thats what they did in the 60's. Sorry buddy but i don't think too many people on here are jealous of the USA at the moment, other than maybe their rugby team which seems to be on the up swing at the moment.



I would say RSA is actually not. But hey, you're entitled to your opinion on the US, but I live here and you don't.

victorsra wrote:
Connection? What you mean?

Every FIFA WC or RWC is played with teams crossing long distances by plane. Japan 2019, Australia 2003, Brazil 2014, Russia 2018, all World Cups with long distances. It is only desirable to be closer thinking about player welfare. That's the only reason. For exemple, Toronto-Boston is less than two hours in the same time zone, which is what is needed to reduce impact on players. The only problematic duet in my list is Seattle-Salt Lake, because there is 1 hour difference in time zone. It would probably be better Denver-Salt Lake and Seattle with Vancouver/San Francisco in the playoffs.


It's a non-sequitor. Pools will be based in specific regions. But outside of the UK based World Cups, every other world cup in the modern game of Rugby and Soccer has involved air travel.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby victorsra » Sun, 13 Sep 2020, 03:45

Yes, I edited my post, to make it more clear :lol: Short flights and same time zone between matches in groups stage is desirable thinking about players' welfare. That's it.
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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby TheStroBro » Sun, 13 Sep 2020, 03:58

Saying the US doesn't deserve a World Cup is not understanding what is going on. A World Cup in the US will be WRs largest take by 2-2.5x because of their ability to sell massive amounts more of corporate hospitality compared to every other country. World Rugby is here to make money, if it grows the game (it will as long it is isn't during football season, then good.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby sk 88 » Sun, 13 Sep 2020, 10:48

victorsra wrote:If there is a 24-teams-in-6-groups-RWC, maybe it could be 2 venues per group.

Let's say (just an exemple):

A: Toronto, Boston
B: Washington, Atlanta
C: New Orleans, Houston
D: Dallas, Austin
E: Salt Lake, Seattle
F: San Diego, Los Angeles

(All with one bigger (football) venue and one smaller (soccer) venue.

Playoffs venues: Vancouver, San Francisco (in one side), Chicago, New York (in the other bracket);


Logistically this is harder to organise, you need the venues set aside for a lot longer and either compromise equal player rest or cannot get two games in a weekend bang for your buck. Has to be a consideration.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby CraigChalmers » Sun, 13 Sep 2020, 12:14

sk 88 wrote:
victorsra wrote:If there is a 24-teams-in-6-groups-RWC, maybe it could be 2 venues per group.

Let's say (just an exemple):

A: Toronto, Boston
B: Washington, Atlanta
C: New Orleans, Houston
D: Dallas, Austin
E: Salt Lake, Seattle
F: San Diego, Los Angeles

(All with one bigger (football) venue and one smaller (soccer) venue.

Playoffs venues: Vancouver, San Francisco (in one side), Chicago, New York (in the other bracket);


Logistically this is harder to organise, you need the venues set aside for a lot longer and either compromise equal player rest or cannot get two games in a weekend bang for your buck. Has to be a consideration.


Not necessarily - if its 24 teams, then it means groups of 4 with 3 matchdays and no bye 'weeks' for any team. So using the example above, you could have both matches in round 1 at the same venue (say Toronto) on consecutive days, then the venue is released for other sports to use and the full group moves on to Boston for round 2. The first part of that wouldn't be entirely unusual (take England 2015; there were a few venues used for just 2 games over consecutive days - Brighton, Leeds and Birmingham off the top of my head. Brighton even held 2 games in the same group, South Africa v Japan and Samoa v USA), however the knock on effect is you end up with 4 sets of fans trying to make the same journey at the same time, potentially straining capacity and pushing prices up.

TheStroBro wrote:It's a non-sequitor. Pools will be based in specific regions. But outside of the UK based World Cups, every other world cup in the modern game of Rugby and Soccer has involved air travel.


Whilst there is no doubt an element of truth in that (I mean some Top 14 sides choose to fly to away games, but that's a choice, not a necessity!), the big difference is it's the exception rather than the rule in many of them. Yes some domestic flights would have been taken by fans during the Japan world cup, but the default of everybody I know who traveled was to take the train between venues. Likewise, that will be my default during the France world cup. And playing the pools in separate parts of the country, whilst logical, removes a lot of what the RWC experience is about. I'm planning to stay in France for most of the pool stage in 2023, and whilst my plans will predominantly be built around following Scotland, I want to take in other matches too - which is a lot easier in a country where rail travel is cheap (if booked in advance) and most venues are only a couple of hours away from each other; before even considering that other pools are using the same set of venues.

None of that is to say USA shouldn't host the RWC (Far from it), but there is no getting round the fact the sheer size of the country presents issues and potentially changes the experience for fans.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby victorsra » Sun, 13 Sep 2020, 13:27

Well, that was just an exemple of format. The key thing IMO is to have MLR cities and key markets outside MLR that could host a franchise in the future.
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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby ficcp » Sun, 13 Sep 2020, 18:36

IMO it is hard to believe that USA Rugby would leave aside complete regions of the country if they organise the RWC. Rugby is played all over the country at pro and amateur levels. It is difficult to consider every city of the MLR teams, but all the regions should be considered. It is a huge country and the most important mean of transportation is the flight connections system. So, the RWC should be organised based on this reality plus other elements such as availability of stadiums, collaboration of the local and corparate communities and so on.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Tobar » Sun, 13 Sep 2020, 20:14

snapper37 wrote:1. USA has too many issues societally to even think about them hosting a world cup, hope this changes but it hasn't in 100 years so good luck on that one.
2. The size of the country would lead to a tournament with no connection if it's spread out all the place, Would be better if it was located in regions.
3. Other countries deserve a shot before them.
*Argetina
*Italy
*South Africa
*Ireland
4. I personally think a Argentina/Uruguay would make a great location for a Tournament.
5. I'm planning France already and am thinking how Australia would look if they are lucky to get 2027. But i could never imagine myself heading to the USA to see a world cup, hopefully things change over the next few years and it becomes more of a welcoming place to go and be a person of colour.


Confused about this. The US apparently has too many issues to host a World Cup but Argentina and South Africa don’t? This just seems like selective bias here.

Why could you never imagine traveling to the US for a World Cup? I understand the concern with being a person of color, can’t deny that. But traveling for a few weeks for an event and staying near the main city center is a bit different than actually living in this country. And this goes back to my question above about South Africa being in less of a mess than the US right now.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Tobar » Sun, 13 Sep 2020, 20:21

ficcp wrote:IMO it is hard to believe that USA Rugby would leave aside complete regions of the country if they organise the RWC. Rugby is played all over the country at pro and amateur levels. It is difficult to consider every city of the MLR teams, but all the regions should be considered. It is a huge country and the most important mean of transportation is the flight connections system. So, the RWC should be organised based on this reality plus other elements such as availability of stadiums, collaboration of the local and corparate communities and so on.


They will never have a World Cup here and ignore the entire country just to make it slightly easier to travel to the different games. At the very least they will pick two locations like the Northeast and SoCal but more realistically they will pick something like the 1994 FIFA World Cup.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby victorsra » Sun, 13 Sep 2020, 22:11

Yes, of course. The only reason to host a WC is to explore the full potencial of a country.

FIFA hosted WCs in USA, Brazil and Russia, that are huge. In Brazil 2014 and USA 1994, all "regions" were covered (well, except Alaska and Hawaii). In Russia 2018, in the other hand, they cut the whole East Russia from the 2018 WC.

Different from Hawaii or Alaska, that are small markets, East Russia has several important cities that could offer something. However, in the pros and cons, the distances and, more importantly, time zones were taken into account. Still, 2018 FIFA WC was played in venues spread in 4 different time zones in Russia, a country with 11 time zones.

1994 FIFA WC in USA was also played in 4 time zones (all time zones in Continental USA). 2014 FIFA WC in Brazil in played in 2 time zones (out of 4 time zones Brazil has, but one time zone covers just a small state in western Brazilian Amazon region, Acre, and the other covers one small island in the Atlantic, Fernando de Noronha... so, just a detail).

With this in mind, let's agree 4 different time zones in the same 1-month-ish tournament is like in the limit thinking about public, broadcasters and, most importantly, players welfare.
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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Tobar » Mon, 14 Sep 2020, 03:11

I don’t think time zones will be too difficult on the players. The pool play matches should all be taking place within the same time zone and they would only have to change time zones 1x a week if they make it to the knockouts. That’s pretty standard for all sports here.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Figaro » Mon, 14 Sep 2020, 04:12

victorsra wrote:Yes, of course. The only reason to host a WC is to explore the full potencial of a country.

FIFA hosted WCs in USA, Brazil and Russia, that are huge. In Brazil 2014 and USA 1994, all "regions" were covered (well, except Alaska and Hawaii). In Russia 2018, in the other hand, they cut the whole East Russia from the 2018 WC.

Different from Hawaii or Alaska, that are small markets, East Russia has several important cities that could offer something. However, in the pros and cons, the distances and, more importantly, time zones were taken into account. Still, 2018 FIFA WC was played in venues spread in 4 different time zones in Russia, a country with 11 time zones.

1994 FIFA WC in USA was also played in 4 time zones (all time zones in Continental USA). 2014 FIFA WC in Brazil in played in 2 time zones (out of 4 time zones Brazil has, but one time zone covers just a small state in western Brazilian Amazon region, Acre, and the other covers one small island in the Atlantic, Fernando de Noronha... so, just a detail).

With this in mind, let's agree 4 different time zones in the same 1-month-ish tournament is like in the limit thinking about public, broadcasters and, most importantly, players welfare.


2015 Women's football world cup in Canada was played over 5 time zones.

There are really only a few countries the discussion is relevant to though. Once you ignore small island colonies only very few countries straddle several time zones.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Mon, 14 Sep 2020, 07:38

I think there are 5. Canada, USA, Brazil, Russia, Australia.
I'm not sure about China.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Mon, 14 Sep 2020, 07:42

Chester-Donnelly wrote:I think there are 5. Canada, USA, Brazil, Russia, Australia.
I'm not sure about China.


Also Kazakhstan and Indonesia.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Figaro » Mon, 14 Sep 2020, 11:09

France should probably count because French Guiana really is quite a big chunk of the country and is pretty closely Integrated politically, even if they'd never come in the conversation in terms of hosting.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Mon, 14 Sep 2020, 11:33

Figaro wrote:France should probably count because French Guiana really is quite a big chunk of the country and is pretty closely Integrated politically, even if they'd never come in the conversation in terms of hosting.


Good point, and for the same reason, Netherlands.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Mon, 14 Sep 2020, 11:44

Chester-Donnelly wrote:
Figaro wrote:France should probably count because French Guiana really is quite a big chunk of the country and is pretty closely Integrated politically, even if they'd never come in the conversation in terms of hosting.


Good point, and for the same reason, Netherlands.


Actually I don't think Netherlands would count. I think Carribbean Netherlands nations form their own national sports teams.

Spain and Portugal both have islands in the Atlantic which form part of their respective nations.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby victorsra » Mon, 14 Sep 2020, 16:32

China imposes just 1 time zone for the whole country. Bur reality is they should have 4 I believe.

I only brought the time zone topic because this is relevant for the Russian decision to not have matches in Siberia, Pacific... 4 hours is ok, but 7, 8, 11 is a problem for a sport like soccer that can have 2 matches in a week.... and not just for players, but also for TVs, as FIFA WC is very rigid about kickoff times.

In Brazil and Portugal and Spain timezones are not relevant, it is just 1 hour difference. Brazil has 4 timezones, but one is literaly just one 2.000-people-island and another one a small Amazon state called Acre that has only professional football clubs in the 4th division... it is only a curiosity in their Brazilian Cup matches when they advance.
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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Mon, 14 Sep 2020, 17:17

victorsra wrote:China imposes just 1 time zone for the whole country. Bur reality is they should have 4 I believe.

I only brought the time zone topic because this is relevant for the Russian decision to not have matches in Siberia, Pacific... 4 hours is ok, but 7, 8, 11 is a problem for a sport like soccer that can have 2 matches in a week.... and not just for players, but also for TVs, as FIFA WC is very rigid about kickoff times.

In Brazil and Portugal and Spain timezones are not relevant, it is just 1 hour difference. Brazil has 4 timezones, but one is literaly just one 2.000-people-island and another one a small Amazon state called Acre that has only professional football clubs in the 4th division... it is only a curiosity in their Brazilian Cup matches when they advance.


For Russia it could be a selling point. Depending on how the draw works out you could have Japan, New Zealand and Australia playing in the East and European teams playing in European Russia.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby victorsra » Mon, 14 Sep 2020, 17:35

Well, Russia needs to start doing political work... if we look at the WR Council, who is Russia's ally? Nobody. Maybe Rugby Europe, with 2 votes, not occupied by Russians. So, maybe.

USA starts with 4 votes (North American votes), but it is very likely to receive Sudamerica Rugby, Argentina (well, USA voted for Pichot...) and Home Nations votes. 21, just to start.
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