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2027 RWC bids

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby jservuk » Fri, 09 Oct 2020, 19:52

Chester-Donnelly wrote:
Armchair Fan wrote:Actually London hosted a Euroleague Final Four not so long ago and it was a bit of a disaster. But it's true basketball has never been too afraid of testing new countries, we've had FIBA World Cups and Eurobaskets in quite a few bizarre hosting nations.


Please accept my apologies. We will do better next time. Marketing for basketball in the UK is pathetic. I think there could be a conspiracy to keep soccer huge and basketball tiny in the UK. Look at the BBC Sport website basketball page and you would think basketball is played in the NBA and nowhere else on earth. Seriously please Armchair Fan have a look for yourself. No mention of Liga ACB or Euroleague, or even BBL. If the British media supported basketball it could be a fairly big sport in Britain in about a year.


I think it is the RU fraternity that is more prone to conspiracies against other sports (RL?) than football.

Personally I don't think the football authorities in England have the nous for such things, but if they did they would probably turn their ire towards Rugby (RU and RL), but with the exception of Sr Alex Ferguson and Arsene Wenger, most football clubs have been helpful when RU/RL has come calling to borrow their grounds.

Football dominates in UK because it generates so much interest. Just look at the sports pages on all major newspapers and TV channels in UK even during the summer - it's packed full of football stories because it generates far more traffic than anything else. It leaves very little room for anything else. It's the media that is to 'blame' if anything, and they are only following market forces. I recall Maurice Lindsay as Present of RFL lamenting some 30 years ago that you could not possibly buy the amount of airtime and publicity that football gets in the UK.

Back on topic - Russia vs USA would be a big thing for RWC going with either of these. But remembering how for much of the media and public in the US the USA94 WC was a minor event, and how much influence and control the Russian authorities would have, I reckon in terms of local impact giving it to Russia would be the best thing.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Fri, 09 Oct 2020, 20:56

jservuk I agree that the Russian media would be far more supportive of a Rugby World Cup than the American media would. Also I think probably there is more of a gap between America's major team sports and its other team sports, whereas in Russia I think interest is possibly spread more evenly.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby victorsra » Fri, 09 Oct 2020, 21:20

jservuk wrote:
Chester-Donnelly wrote:
Armchair Fan wrote:Actually London hosted a Euroleague Final Four not so long ago and it was a bit of a disaster. But it's true basketball has never been too afraid of testing new countries, we've had FIBA World Cups and Eurobaskets in quite a few bizarre hosting nations.


Please accept my apologies. We will do better next time. Marketing for basketball in the UK is pathetic. I think there could be a conspiracy to keep soccer huge and basketball tiny in the UK. Look at the BBC Sport website basketball page and you would think basketball is played in the NBA and nowhere else on earth. Seriously please Armchair Fan have a look for yourself. No mention of Liga ACB or Euroleague, or even BBL. If the British media supported basketball it could be a fairly big sport in Britain in about a year.


I think it is the RU fraternity that is more prone to conspiracies against other sports (RL?) than football.

Personally I don't think the football authorities in England have the nous for such things, but if they did they would probably turn their ire towards Rugby (RU and RL), but with the exception of Sr Alex Ferguson and Arsene Wenger, most football clubs have been helpful when RU/RL has come calling to borrow their grounds.

Football dominates in UK because it generates so much interest. Just look at the sports pages on all major newspapers and TV channels in UK even during the summer - it's packed full of football stories because it generates far more traffic than anything else. It leaves very little room for anything else. It's the media that is to 'blame' if anything, and they are only following market forces. I recall Maurice Lindsay as Present of RFL lamenting some 30 years ago that you could not possibly buy the amount of airtime and publicity that football gets in the UK.

Back on topic - Russia vs USA would be a big thing for RWC going with either of these. But remembering how for much of the media and public in the US the USA94 WC was a minor event, and how much influence and control the Russian authorities would have, I reckon in terms of local impact giving it to Russia would be the best thing.



Well, soccer before 1994 was much bigger in USA than rugby is. Remember soccer already had professional experiences in USA before (Pelé & etc), it was a well known recreational activity and, well, it is soccer, biggest sport on Earth, with an obvious appeal, and USA is a cosmopolitan country. I honestly don't think soccer is a good comparison.

Rugby will have to battle for attention with sports that won't stop. Maybe in Russia it might be easier to capture the attention if the govt is fully backing it, while in USA June/July/August might offer an opportunity with less competition. Still, they have a lot to prove before WR believes it is a safe bet. Specialy Russia, that doesn't have a single rugby event to show until now. Let's see what they can show before the venue election. At the moment, it is sad to say but England would be a likely safer bet.

jservuk I agree that the Russian media would be far more supportive of a Rugby World Cup than the American media would. Also I think probably there is more of a gap between America's major team sports and its other team sports, whereas in Russia I think interest is possibly spread more evenly.

I have the same impression.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby RugbyLiebe » Mon, 12 Oct 2020, 06:56

Chester-Donnelly wrote:USA and Russia can build a real rivalry around this rugby space race. A game between champions of the Russian Premier League and MLR would be good way to promote their professional leagues and top professional teams.


I love your enthusiam, but I fear you always fall for the trap "that would be a good game". This might be true from a sports only perspective, but it won't be a good way to promote it. Nobody is interested that a Siberian and a barely known US club are playing for the golden pineapple (no translation from German available, to have a totally meaningless game). What are their regular attendances? My guess is 10k combined between them. How on earth do you want to create an interest out of that? Do you really think anyone outside of the core group is excited to see a much against Krasnojarsk or Seattle?

The only way to promote a sport is games between national teams. Bigger focus group, use of existing rivalries, easier to identify with. But there is still a big question mark if this is enough.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Bogdan_DC » Mon, 12 Oct 2020, 09:30

victorsra wrote:
Bogdan_DC wrote:Russia is in with a real chance for 2031. You must be blind not to see all their investing in rugby.

They are investing, but hold on. We are yet to see basicaly everything. Their league is not like MLR or Japan's Top League (not attracting major T1 players), their national team is not impressing with big event and what about local media, is anyone talking about the Bears or their league in sports media? Only time will prove anything.

Again, I say it is realy realy odd that rugby is considering a World Cup in two countries (USA and Russia) where rugby is irrelevant in a national perspective. Too much a niche sport in both places. Both will need to prove A LOT in the next years (I'm not saying they won't be able to prove, I'm saying they have a lot to prove... MUCH more than Japan had when elected as 2019 venue).

I didnt say they deserve it, im not in measure to say that. I just say they are in with a real chance for 2031.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Tomster7uk » Mon, 12 Oct 2020, 23:35

Russia potentially putting in bids for both, 2027 and 2031. But which one do you think will be the more likely to succeed?

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Tomster7uk » Mon, 12 Oct 2020, 23:41

Australia's construction begins on the proposed National Rugby Training Centre in 2021 that will be incorporated in to the bid for both the 2027 RWC and Brisbane's 2032 Olympics.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Tue, 13 Oct 2020, 16:26

victorsra wrote:Basketball is the only truly global team sport after soccer. And by truly global I mean massive around the world, in a diverse number of countries. Obivously other sports have popularity across the globe. But basketball is the one closer to soccer.


Yes I agree with this

1. Soccer
2. Basketball

Then what?

3.?
4.?
5.?

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby victorsra » Tue, 13 Oct 2020, 17:00

I think all other realy big team sports are unbalanced: realy popular in some places, but very small in most places. This is true for rugby, cricket, baseball, ice hockey...

Volleyball is very well balanced. It is played everywhere, but as a professional thing it is not realy big.

Handball is somewhat global, but still very much European.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Wed, 14 Oct 2020, 01:01

victorsra wrote:I think all other realy big team sports are unbalanced: realy popular in some places, but very small in most places. This is true for rugby, cricket, baseball, ice hockey...

Volleyball is very well balanced. It is played everywhere, but as a professional thing it is not realy big.

Handball is somewhat global, but still very much European.


I totally agree with your analysis.

I think rugby has the potential to be the third global team sport but it's not there yet.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby victorsra » Wed, 14 Oct 2020, 01:17

We are all suspects, rugby is our sport. For me, the best of all. But most of the world doesn't know this :lol:

SportsPro published a list of "The World’s 50 Most Marketable Sports Properties". They used their "SponsorPulse’s Opportunity Score": an "one universal currency that allows decision makers to instantly compare properties based on seven key metrics: engagement, intensity, momentum, passion, excitement, purchase consideration, and favourability". They surveyed over 30k people in 18 major markets.

https://50mm.sportspromedia.com/propert ... e=hs_email

And rugby doesn't have a single property. Not even the RWC....

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby thatrugbyguy » Wed, 14 Oct 2020, 06:27

victorsra wrote:I think all other realy big team sports are unbalanced: realy popular in some places, but very small in most places. This is true for rugby, cricket, baseball, ice hockey...

Volleyball is very well balanced. It is played everywhere, but as a professional thing it is not realy big.

Handball is somewhat global, but still very much European.


Field Hockey would be quite high.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby thatrugbyguy » Wed, 14 Oct 2020, 06:31

Chester-Donnelly wrote:
I totally agree with your analysis.

I think rugby has the potential to be the third global team sport but it's not there yet.


It's not even close to being third. The RWC may very well be the third biggest attended world championship after FIFA and the Olympics, the tournament has averaged well over 35,000 for at least the last 5 world cups so from a spectator perspective it's accurate. But it wasn't until Japan became competitive that the games audience actually grew significantly.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 14 Oct 2020, 10:03

victorsra wrote:We are all suspects, rugby is our sport. For me, the best of all. But most of the world doesn't know this :lol:

SportsPro published a list of "The World’s 50 Most Marketable Sports Properties". They used their "SponsorPulse’s Opportunity Score": an "one universal currency that allows decision makers to instantly compare properties based on seven key metrics: engagement, intensity, momentum, passion, excitement, purchase consideration, and favourability". They surveyed over 30k people in 18 major markets.

https://50mm.sportspromedia.com/propert ... e=hs_email

And rugby doesn't have a single property. Not even the RWC....


Could it be that they simply forgot about rugby? I mean Badminton is on this list (I know it is big in Asia, but bigger than rugby? At least a doubt). Table-tennis is strange (okay China) but WWE is also to be doubted.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby thatrugbyguy » Wed, 14 Oct 2020, 12:32

They're talking specifically brands more than the sports themselves. The truth is like many issues with rugby, it doesn't really have an instantly recognisable brand associated with it outside of the All Blacks. This goes along with the sport having no genuinely recognisable global superstars either. RWC may be a big event, but it's still very much an event that draws attention in a handful of nations. Rugby's greatest strength has always been it's a sport where players support and respect each other on both sides of the pitch, but it's also the sports greatest weakness because it doesn't allow for players to stand out and for new rivalries to form. At least not today. The players for the most part today don't play their part in building hype. All the media engagements are so polished these days that you only ever get standard responses from players. How can you generate any type of identity in the sporting landscape when no-one stands out anymore? I remember David Campese use to turn his back to the haka. He would intentionally ruffle feathers to draw headlines and put off the opposition.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Armchair Fan » Wed, 14 Oct 2020, 14:39

After a small Twitter thread and discussion on the topic from last week, MARCA has published today on its last page a request to support a Spanish bid for 2031 RWC as our 'last frontier'...
Image

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby victorsra » Wed, 14 Oct 2020, 15:44

Armchair Fan wrote:After a small Twitter thread and discussion on the topic from last week, MARCA has published today on its last page a request to support a Spanish bid for 2031 RWC as our 'last frontier'...
Image


Is FER considering this?

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Armchair Fan » Wed, 14 Oct 2020, 15:46



I doubt it. But it's still noticeable coming from the biggest newspaper in the country...

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby NaBUru38 » Wed, 14 Oct 2020, 18:14

victorsra wrote: SportsPro published a list of "The World’s 50 Most Marketable Sports Properties".


Those lists are a joke.

The Winter Olympics is 6th. That's basically a Northern Hemisphere event. Africa, India, Turkey, Argentina, Brazil and Mexico never got any medals.

Is the Special Olympics or the X Games really more marketable than MotoGP?

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Armchair Fan » Wed, 14 Oct 2020, 18:24

NaBUru38 wrote:
victorsra wrote: SportsPro published a list of "The World’s 50 Most Marketable Sports Properties".


Those lists are a joke.

The Winter Olympics is 6th. That's basically a Northern Hemisphere event. Africa, India, Turkey, Argentina, Brazil and Mexico never got any medals.

Is the Special Olympics or the X Games really more marketable than MotoGP?

Actually it did. In 2018 Spain clinched a medal in snowboard with Regino Hernández, born in Ceuta. And I'm pretty sure there is a Frenchman born in Algeria or Tunisia who did earlier.

It used to be basically a Northern Hemisphere event but it's changing little by little, basically because you can have artificial snow and ice pretty much everywhere and people can move easily around the globe. I'd say the main difference today is not climate but money as you can afford both training infrastructure for all year round at home or travelling to Southern Hemisphere in summer to keep training and competing. Australia and New Zealand have been faring quite well in recent Winter Olympics.

Anyway there has been some discussion in recent years about whether opening the door to some winter sports that are popular in less traditional Winter Olympics countries, some of them being tested in Youth Olympics. For example cross would give African nations a chance to excel, while cyclocross is popular in central Europe and ski mountaineering is already part of Youth Winter Olympics. The main issue is reluctance by current federations.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby victorsra » Wed, 14 Oct 2020, 18:43

NaBUru38 wrote:
victorsra wrote: SportsPro published a list of "The World’s 50 Most Marketable Sports Properties".


Those lists are a joke.

The Winter Olympics is 6th. That's basically a Northern Hemisphere event. Africa, India, Turkey, Argentina, Brazil and Mexico never got any medals.

Is the Special Olympics or the X Games really more marketable than MotoGP?


I usualy think the same about those lists because they never show methodology. But this one does and it is pretty interesting. Have you read to make the criticism?

It is pretty honest the concept, surveying 18 major markets. For exemple, Asian huge markets like China, India and Indonesia realy influencing the list. It is probably the best we can find on internet.

Rugby's position is pretty much realistic.... rugby is basicaly nothing in most of the major markets (China, India, Indonesia, Mexico, South Korea...probably Turkey is there too, as they are among the top 18 economies.... rugby is nothing in those places... and USA, Russia, Germany, Brazil definitly don't help rugby either....). The world has changed, you can't make analysis thinking about small/medium Europe/Oceania/Americas countries...

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby sk 88 » Wed, 14 Oct 2020, 19:14

victorsra wrote:
Armchair Fan wrote:After a small Twitter thread and discussion on the topic from last week, MARCA has published today on its last page a request to support a Spanish bid for 2031 RWC as our 'last frontier'...
Image


Is FER considering this?


Anyone fancies doing a graphic for people to think is part of a proper bid?

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Wed, 14 Oct 2020, 20:29

Armchair Fan wrote:
NaBUru38 wrote:
victorsra wrote: SportsPro published a list of "The World’s 50 Most Marketable Sports Properties".


Those lists are a joke.

The Winter Olympics is 6th. That's basically a Northern Hemisphere event. Africa, India, Turkey, Argentina, Brazil and Mexico never got any medals.

Is the Special Olympics or the X Games really more marketable than MotoGP?

Actually it did. In 2018 Spain clinched a medal in snowboard with Regino Hernández, born in Ceuta. And I'm pretty sure there is a Frenchman born in Algeria or Tunisia who did earlier.

It used to be basically a Northern Hemisphere event but it's changing little by little, basically because you can have artificial snow and ice pretty much everywhere and people can move easily around the globe. I'd say the main difference today is not climate but money as you can afford both training infrastructure for all year round at home or travelling to Southern Hemisphere in summer to keep training and competing. Australia and New Zealand have been faring quite well in recent Winter Olympics.

Anyway there has been some discussion in recent years about whether opening the door to some winter sports that are popular in less traditional Winter Olympics countries, some of them being tested in Youth Olympics. For example cross would give African nations a chance to excel, while cyclocross is popular in central Europe and ski mountaineering is already part of Youth Winter Olympics. The main issue is reluctance by current federations.


I think cyclo-cross in the Winter Olympics is a really nice idea. I also think there could be a place in the Winter Olympics for a team ball sport. Something like korfball played outside in the snow. I don't think playing it outside in the snow would enhance the game at all, but I think it would be less affected by the snow than most other team ball games.

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby victorsra » Wed, 14 Oct 2020, 20:53

If Spain bids, it is strong, specialy with many cities in driving distances from Southern France. But, that 100mi is a big problem. I'm still betting 2031 will be in England :lol:

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Re: 2027 RWC bids

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Wed, 14 Oct 2020, 21:04

Number of members per International federation

Volleyball 222
Basketball 213
Handball 209

Baseball 141
Field Hockey 137
Cricket 104
Rugby 102

Ice Hockey 81
Korfball 68
Netball 49

So, in terms of global reach, volleyball and handball are two of the most widespread International team ball sports

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