Tier 2 & 3 Rugby Forum

Canadian rugby

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby victorsra » Mon, 20 Jul 2020, 20:02

iul wrote:
victorsra wrote:So, it makes no difference. But gives ideas of how to make a better event. And he proved it is possible to engage people

It does make a difference. Perhaps some folks who would have gone to support Arrows with paid tickets choose to go to Wolfpack with free tickets and that's enough for them. Yes, you can engage people if you have the money to burn. I mean, I know how to make a Brazilian rugby league that averages 50k... have a giant pop super star concert before and after every game and sell tickets dirt cheap... I just don't know how to make it make money. I also don't have the money to make it happen :)

It doesn't make sense. If they like Union and see value on followig the Arrows they'll be there. The Wolfpack free ticket is a bonus. People can like many things that compete for people's time. Wolfpack is a small one, a detail in a big city with too many sports. As I said, it might make a different in the fixtures. But not so much, as Wolfpack spend months in England. In the end, it is all up to the Arrows engaging people that already like rugby - and, after this, others. Wolfpack is much less relevant than it looks like.

Also obviously I am not talking about burning money, so not talking about COPYING. It is the simple idea of benchmarking, see what is working for another reality and see what can you do in your own reality. Adapt according to your possibilities .This is not difficult to understand.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby TheStroBro » Tue, 21 Jul 2020, 05:08

Comparatively the Arrows have done very well and their number of comp tickets per match has been under 100 in S2 of MLR. Whereas the number of comps the Wolfpack had was a four digit number. The Arrows were not struggling for attendance.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Grayday88 » Tue, 21 Jul 2020, 11:13

It’s sad to see them not finish the season but whilst Covid has forced them to not finish the season there has been rumours about players being paid late and bills not being paid even before the pandemic. This is from December 2018 https://www.seriousaboutrl.com/wolfpack ... -up-18533/

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby sk 88 » Sun, 09 Aug 2020, 20:15

https://www.patreon.com/posts/39588405

A detailed post from a rugby league perspective on the Wolfpack.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby snapper37 » Mon, 10 Aug 2020, 21:14

sk 88 wrote:https://www.patreon.com/posts/39588405

A detailed post from a rugby league perspective on the Wolfpack.


"Owner David Argyle recently revealed he has spent $30 million (Canadian) - roughly £17.6 million - since the club was founded in 2017" What a waste of money, this isn't a League Nation.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby victorsra » Mon, 10 Aug 2020, 23:00

Was he that naive?

I always thought the best investment in Super League would be the 2nd French team.

Anyway, Ottawa Aces belongs to him as well?

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Grayday88 » Tue, 11 Aug 2020, 10:24

The Ottawa team was formed by Eric Perez who formed the Wolfpack but left them in 2017. No idea who the owner is though. Question for our Canadian friends what is the likelihood that a new owner comes in I know four parties are interested

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby iul » Tue, 11 Aug 2020, 10:33

Grayday88 wrote:The Ottawa team was formed by Eric Perez who formed the Wolfpack but left them in 2017. No idea who the owner is though. Question for our Canadian friends what is the likelihood that a new owner comes in I know four parties are interested

Hard to see why anyone would want to own a sports team playing an unknown sport to the wider Canadian public and that has lost 30 million $ CAD over its first four years.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Grayday88 » Tue, 11 Aug 2020, 10:53

That’s true also the players having been paid for three months so you would need to take on a debt of about £2million. Ultimately I just don’t see how a transatlantic team in Super League is viable the competition doesn’t generate enough revenue

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby ihateblazers » Tue, 11 Aug 2020, 10:58

Honestly, why did David Argyle ever get involved in Rugby League. He is a former rugby union player. I see that he wanted to get involved in rugby union but there were issues with getting north american sides playing in other countries. He could get involved in the MLR. Far less expenses and a sustainable goal in mind.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby grande » Tue, 11 Aug 2020, 14:01

It was going to be a hard sell from the start, but Super League and the RFL have both put up pretty steep barriers to the Wolfpack's success.

I went to a handful of games, and the game day experience was truly stellar. Their branding was excellent. I'm still a much bigger Union fan, but it's a shame to lose them.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Rebus » Tue, 11 Aug 2020, 17:16

I think if there had been the same groundswell as the MLR had , it may have been a starter to get a North American division set up. But running a stand alone team like this is just a money pit.

The growth of MLR is going to kill off any interest for a number of years. If he had this sort of money , he could easily have made a success in MLR with another Canadian team

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby victorsra » Tue, 11 Aug 2020, 17:46

grande wrote:It was going to be a hard sell from the start, but Super League and the RFL have both put up pretty steep barriers to the Wolfpack's success.

I went to a handful of games, and the game day experience was truly stellar. Their branding was excellent. I'm still a much bigger Union fan, but it's a shame to lose them.


Yes, the Arrows should benchmark the Wolfpack. Probably some things can't be done the same way, because Wolfpack had more money, but still they delivered something interesting.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Grayday88 » Tue, 11 Aug 2020, 21:26

grande wrote:It was going to be a hard sell from the start, but Super League and the RFL have both put up pretty steep barriers to the Wolfpack's success.

I went to a handful of games, and the game day experience was truly stellar. Their branding was excellent. I'm still a much bigger Union fan, but it's a shame to lose them.




True. I think that the RFL expected them to fail so put an agreement in place that denied TWP central funding. However there where other issues namely that Super League has struggled over the past few years and I don’t see how they were ever going to create enough revenue to cover flights, accommodation and wages for opposing players. Ultimately there’s part of me that wonders why they didn’t just create an MLR style league in North America

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby thatrugbyguy » Wed, 12 Aug 2020, 07:58

They didn't start a league because like many things with rugby league no-one wanted to put in the 20 years of work at the grassroots level to make it succeed. I instinctively knew this Wolfpack experiment was likely to fall over eventually because when it was first launched because some of the exact same mistakes that had been done in the past by rugby league were on display again. And I don't understand it. I mean, I get it, the people who love the sport want to get a foot into the North American market. Rugby League people have always dreamed of getting there before rugby union and planting the flag first. I get that, I understand they think their sport is the better of the two codes and suited to North Americans more. But it's the same thing every time, whether it's expanding to Perth or Adelaide, or London, or where ever the sport tries to break new ground, no-one has a plan in place other than build from the top down. It's always quick fixes with rugby league. Play a test match in Denver, host the World Cup in North America in 2025, open the NRL season in Los Angeles, etc. You're never going to win people over that way. MLR is starting small and gradually building itself up, there have been some stumbles along the way but it's gradually working itself up from the ground to hopefully one day becoming as well known a professional league as every other rugby competition in the world, a genuine destination for players in North and South America to make a living playing the game. The Wolfpack are simply going to join the list of failed attempts by rugby league because there was no attempt to build from the ground up. Knowing people from the sport, they get blinded by the potential that they fail to see the reality - that they need a better plan.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Thomas » Wed, 23 Sep 2020, 11:42


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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Figaro » Wed, 23 Sep 2020, 15:16

Hell of a CV to be assistant Canada coach - Wales assistant for a decade, including delivering a 6N trophy in 2013 while Gatland was away - and two Lions tours. A much better coach than Kingsley Jones!

Was rumoured to be about to take over the Italy job before his spectacular fall from grace due to gambling issues. That's the price you pay. He's served his time and deserves a second chance, coup for Canada in picking him up. Good luck to him.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby ihateblazers » Thu, 24 Sep 2020, 04:47

Important to block out the negative noise from the rugby press regarding Howley. With his personal problems aside he is a solid coach , and in all fairness as an attacking coach he was working with limited player quality (relative to T1vsT1) as most T1 international attack coaches find. Most of the negative comments throughout his tenure came from passionate but bitter fans with incredibly high armchair standards. I also wish him good luck and Canada have a solid pickup here.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby victorsra » Thu, 24 Sep 2020, 16:19

Fiji-Maoris is not anymore in WR's website, but Canada-USA (BC Place, Oct 30th) is still there: https://www.world.rugby/tournaments/fixtures

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Thu, 24 Sep 2020, 17:03

Disgraced T1 profiles are always T2 best chances to convince top level people to work for them. Good for Canada to make the most of this opportunity.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby snapper37 » Thu, 24 Sep 2020, 17:05

I'm not at all excited by Rob Howley as an assistant coach. I'll get excited when we start winning games, sitting below 4 countries in the world standings that didn't even go to the World Cup (Hong Kong, Portugal, Romania and Spain) is embarrassing and to think Namibia and Netherlands are close behind us. And some people think we deserve more Tier 1 games,,give me a break. Winning is all that counts,

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby snapper37 » Fri, 25 Sep 2020, 22:43

To top off hiring a welsh criminal they let go multiple Canadians during this time. AKA Charron

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Canadian_Rugger » Sat, 26 Sep 2020, 00:14

News of the Toronto Wolfpack's impending demise might be a bit premature ;)

New owner has emerged to buy the club, reached an agreement with the players union to pay the players and also has most of the clubs onside (at least the ones that matter).

Robert Elstone, the Super League chairman is apparently not in favour but St Helens, Wigan, Leeds and Catalans all want them back. Apparently only three clubs: probably Wakefield, Hull FC and Hull KR (i.e. the clubs that have the most to lose if they are let back in) absolutely do not want them back.

The RFL also want them back and have made it clear they want them as well as Ottawa and eventually New York in the competition.

Toronto have been given a one month extension to answer a couple of questions Super League owners have.

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby snapper37 » Sat, 26 Sep 2020, 01:11

Canadian_Rugger wrote:News of the Toronto Wolfpack's impending demise might be a bit premature ;)

New owner has emerged to buy the club, reached an agreement with the players union to pay the players and also has most of the clubs onside (at least the ones that matter).

Robert Elstone, the Super League chairman is apparently not in favour but St Helens, Wigan, Leeds and Catalans all want them back. Apparently only three clubs: probably Wakefield, Hull FC and Hull KR (i.e. the clubs that have the most to lose if they are let back in) absolutely do not want them back.

The RFL also want them back and have made it clear they want them as well as Ottawa and eventually New York in the competition.

Toronto have been given a one month extension to answer a couple of questions Super League owners have.



Bye Bye, Told you they wouldn't last

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Re: Canadian rugby

Postby Figaro » Sat, 26 Sep 2020, 07:28

snapper37 wrote:To top off hiring a welsh criminal they let go multiple Canadians during this time. AKA Charron


Have you read up on what he actually did? It sounds like he had a serious addiction and compulsive mental health problem that led him to do something he knew was against the rules, rather than deliberately tried to make a personal profit by fiddling the system. His fall from grace is the price he paid but "criminal" seems a bit harsh.

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