Tier 2 & 3 Rugby Forum

Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Sat, 31 Oct 2020, 01:42

Thomas wrote:Bad news for England Rugby

A load of grassroots clubs will go under as a consequence of this, I fear for that but also fear for the amount of players walking away.

https://www.englandrugby.com/news/article/rfu-cancels-adult-competitive-leaguesfor-the-202021-season?fbclid=IwAR1v9abP1c0ed0Ja17ALNPTCBlW0dIatDrr2q0hHY6yocUeY9v5M0OmfiqM

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This is disappointing but not surprising. I don't think this will result in many clubs going under. The vast majority are amateur clubs. They don't have many costs. My club is actually thriving. Covid has resulted in record numbers of new players. Lots of other sports and hobbies are not available.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby Rebus » Sat, 31 Oct 2020, 06:08

Chester-Donnelly wrote:
Thomas wrote:Bad news for England Rugby

A load of grassroots clubs will go under as a consequence of this, I fear for that but also fear for the amount of players walking away.

https://www.englandrugby.com/news/article/rfu-cancels-adult-competitive-leaguesfor-the-202021-season?fbclid=IwAR1v9abP1c0ed0Ja17ALNPTCBlW0dIatDrr2q0hHY6yocUeY9v5M0OmfiqM

Image


This is disappointing but not surprising. I don't think this will result in many clubs going under. The vast majority are amateur clubs. They don't have many costs. My club is actually thriving. Covid has resulted in record numbers of new players. Lots of other sports and hobbies are not available.


A bigger problem for rugby clubs, as it will be for many sports , is that although many costs are low being amateur , the clubs rely on sponsorship , social events and bar takings for their income stream. Pre-COVID there was a known drop in sponsorship within many sports , add in the inability to open the club for core income streams and its very difficult for clubs to meet fixed overheads.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby Thomas » Sat, 31 Oct 2020, 07:42

When the draw came out everyone hoped a January or February start including my own local but with the different revenue streams drying up and the cancellation how many new players will actually remain? Seriously. and if the rumours are true we are heading for a full lockdown.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Sat, 31 Oct 2020, 08:08

Thomas wrote:When the draw came out everyone hoped a January or February start including my own local but with the different revenue streams drying up and the cancellation how many new players will actually remain? Seriously. and if the rumours are true we are heading for a full lockdown.


Yes full lock down will obviously impact on income, but short of that, for children especially, what else are they going to do? Running around with their friends on a Sunday morning is the most fun they have all week. Unless there's a full lock down they're not going to stop.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Mon, 02 Nov 2020, 22:00

Wasps are in serious financial dire straits.

https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport ... 205425.amp

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby Thomas » Tue, 03 Nov 2020, 10:18

Well, we can always play Rugby League

RFU 'very close' to green light for return of full-contact rugby at grassroots - but without scrums and mauls

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2020/11/02/rfu-close-green-light-return-full-contact-rugby-grassroots/

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Tue, 03 Nov 2020, 13:06

The prospect of a 14 team Premiership is being considered again. I think having 4 London clubs is ideal, although I would prefer it if one of those was Wasps, and Coventry RFC was the Coventry based club. This could still happen if Wasps RFC goes bust.

https://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/latest- ... rship/amp/

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby victorsra » Tue, 03 Nov 2020, 15:10

Isn't Wasps a Coventry RFC partner or something like this?

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby Thomas » Tue, 03 Nov 2020, 16:04

Not according to this,

https://www.wasps.co.uk/community/clubs/

I don't think Coventry Rugby were ever happy with the interlopers

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Tue, 03 Nov 2020, 16:57

All the football clubs in Coventry hate eachother.

They are the exact opposite of Bristol Sport. 3 sports, 3 clubs, one stadium, in partnership with the city's colleges and universities, working together sharing costs and expertise under one ownership.

And with a nice website

https://www.bristol-sport.co.uk/

That is how a city's professional sports should be run.

Coventry is what not to do.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby victorsra » Tue, 03 Nov 2020, 17:30

Bristol is doing something Newcastle and Leeds did in the past but not much successfully, right?

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Tue, 03 Nov 2020, 18:41

victorsra wrote:Bristol is doing something Newcastle and Leeds did in the past but not much successfully, right?


Yes you're right about Newcastle under Sir John Hall. It is considered a failure, but the legacy is positive. The teams are now all separate, but Newcastle still has top division professional teams in football, rugby and basketball. And there is a Newcastle sporting identity, with all three teams wearing black and white, and the teams have a positive relationship.

I'm not sure about the story of Leeds. The football club, Leeds United is back in the Premier League. Leeds Rhinos is one of the most popular Rugby League teams, and they have now launched a Netball Superleague team. But attempts to have professional rugby union and basketball teams have failed.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby iul » Tue, 03 Nov 2020, 20:21

Chester-Donnelly wrote:
victorsra wrote:Bristol is doing something Newcastle and Leeds did in the past but not much successfully, right?


Yes you're right about Newcastle under Sir John Hall. It is considered a failure, but the legacy is positive. The teams are now all separate, but Newcastle still has top division professional teams in football, rugby and basketball. And there is a Newcastle sporting identity, with all three teams wearing black and white, and the teams have a positive relationship.

I'm not sure about the story of Leeds. The football club, Leeds United is back in the Premier League. Leeds Rhinos is one of the most popular Rugby League teams, and they have now launched a Netball Superleague team. But attempts to have professional rugby union and basketball teams have failed.

The rugby union was killed by the guy who owns Rhinos like Orrell was.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby victorsra » Tue, 03 Nov 2020, 21:12

Anyway, needless to say a Premiership expansion would mean no T2s in the Challenge Cup (unless it is expanded).]

Curious that EPCR hasn't revealed Challenge Cup's draw, right? In the Champions Cup draw, they published who will play who. But they haven't done the same for the Challenge Cup... https://www.epcrugby.com/2020/10/28/hei ... ille-2021/ Has the Premiership told them to wait?

Would be quite simple to convert Saracens punishment in points lost instead of relegation.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby thatrugbyguy » Wed, 04 Nov 2020, 06:15

Wallabies thumbing by the All Blacks last weekend means I’ve literally have lived half my life without the Wallabies touching the Bledisloe Cup.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby vino_93 » Wed, 04 Nov 2020, 16:00

Yannick Youyoutte did its first games for Toulouse recently. He is from Guadeloupe, and I guess the first player from there to become pro.
There are less than 800 players in the Guadeloupe local rugby scene (and a few are from Saint-Martin island, which isn't that close to Guadeloupe ...). Great achievment from him :thumbup:

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby Thomas » Wed, 04 Nov 2020, 21:21

The RFU have announced this evening that due to the COVID lockdown clubs are moving back to Stage A of the return to rugby pathway.

Until we leave lockdown the RFU will advise we can move out of Stage A.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby victorsra » Wed, 04 Nov 2020, 23:26

Very important news: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/super- ... G7ITZCYR4/ It seems Fiji (I guess Fiji Latui) and Moana Pasifika would play a 12-teams league with the 5 Kiwis and the 5 Aussies.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Thu, 05 Nov 2020, 02:52

victorsra wrote:Very important news: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/super- ... G7ITZCYR4/ It seems Fiji (I guess Fiji Latui) and Moana Pasifika would play a 12-teams league with the 5 Kiwis and the 5 Aussies.


This is really positive. This is the best way forward for Super Rugby in my opinion. The story is copied here

https://www.sarugbymag.co.za/super-rugb ... elve-2022/

SANZAAR have committed to the Rugby Championship for another decade. So, what is still missing from elite rugby competitions in Asia Pacific region?

Australia's domestic championship to replace the NRC? Hopefully the new competition will include Fijian Drua.

An annual competition for Japan and Fiji?
With professional Fijian Latui and Pasifika Manoa teams competing in Super Rugby, the Pacific Nations Cup (Fiji, Samoa, Tonga, Japan) should continue to be a worthwhile annual tournament for these four teams.

A competition for South China Tigers?

The World Rugby Pacific Challenge (Fijian Warriors, Junior Japan, Tonga A, Samoa A)? Fijian Warriors and Junior Japan are both really good teams to watch and deserve a better tournament. Maybe Hong Kong could host an annual mini tournament between South China Tigers, Junior Japan, Fijian Warriors and a team from Asian Russia.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby victorsra » Thu, 05 Nov 2020, 19:21



Rugby League's Toulouse Olympique bid to join the English (that they call "European") Super League in 2021. Interesting that they mention they have a close relation with Stade Toulousain. Is there an official partnership or something like this?

Anyway, much healthier when people see RU-RL relationship with a co-operation approach instead of an annoying childish anachronistic rivalry.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby Armchair Fan » Thu, 05 Nov 2020, 19:26

I believe they collaborate at a grassroots level, just as USAP and Dragons Catalans have recently announced as well.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby victorsra » Thu, 05 Nov 2020, 19:27

That's positive.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby Raven » Thu, 05 Nov 2020, 19:34

I don't know if it has been written somewhre else, but their application comes due to the Toronto Wolfpack's exclusion of the 2021 season...

"Super League must now decide whether to run with 11 clubs in 2021 or find a 12th member"

"There would be no shortage of candidates if Super League goes for the second option, with Featherstone and London Broncos previously offering to take Toronto’s place in 2020.

Toulouse, York and Leigh are other Championship clubs with Super League aspirations while Bradford could also come under consideration."

Literally JUST read this article: https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/tor ... te-elstone

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby sk 88 » Fri, 06 Nov 2020, 09:09

Promoting Bradford back to Super League would be the most "League" decision available so I think that is where my money would be.

RE: "European" Super League, I think that has always been its official title. It was launched with a PSG branded Paris side and has had French involvement for longer than not.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Fri, 06 Nov 2020, 10:15

Personally I would like to see London Broncos back in the Super League. Without a team in the capital Rugby League is just a regional sport.

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