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Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby RugbyLiebe » Mon, 29 Jun 2020, 11:12

Chester-Donnelly wrote:That makes sense for sevens with it being an Olympic sport. That will also free up a couple of other spaces in sevens tournaments for teams like Japan and Germany.


If World Rugby stays World Rugby this will lead to a reduction of core teams to 13 and not to two more teams qualfying for the World Series.
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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby sk 88 » Mon, 29 Jun 2020, 11:27

The main issue around Team GB in 7s is who funds it, who selects the team and who governs it because it doesn't have a natural governing body.

I think there is a chance this is more kite flying from RFU's CEO Sweeney who is constantly in the media claiming things are happening and everyone is agreeing when they patently are not.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby theDarky » Mon, 29 Jun 2020, 12:03

sk 88 wrote:The main issue around Team GB in 7s is who funds it, who selects the team and who governs it because it doesn't have a natural governing body.

I think there is a chance this is more kite flying from RFU's CEO Sweeney who is constantly in the media claiming things are happening and everyone is agreeing when they patently are not.


the British Olympic Association can fund it and I think the natural governing body should be the RFU for registering with a common home-nations comitee/company for the selection ...

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Mon, 29 Jun 2020, 12:11

theDarky wrote:
sk 88 wrote:The main issue around Team GB in 7s is who funds it, who selects the team and who governs it because it doesn't have a natural governing body.

I think there is a chance this is more kite flying from RFU's CEO Sweeney who is constantly in the media claiming things are happening and everyone is agreeing when they patently are not.


the British Olympic Association can fund it and I think the natural governing body should be the RFU for registering with a common home-nations comitee/company for the selection ...


I agree.
It will be really exciting to have a Team GB playing outside of the Olympic Games. I can get my union jack flags and bunting out, wear my union jack top hat, and sing Rule Britannia and Land of Hope and Glory.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby Figaro » Mon, 29 Jun 2020, 13:06

I don't know how this would work. 7s was used as a development tool in Wales, a way of keeping a few extra players in a Pro environment outside of the regions. A handful of players have gotten regional contracts off the back of it and some even went on to play for the national side, e.g. Luke Morgan and Sam Cross, though neither really looks like they're in the frame ar the moment.

If you're talking about picking a team GB on merit, I don't know how that squares with the development function. Would each team get a quota of players, or what?

That said I'm aware finances are really tight because of Covid and 7s would be one of the first things I'd pick to scrap, so I'm not that bothered.

I'd have zero interest in following a GB branded side

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby victorsra » Mon, 29 Jun 2020, 14:12

Do you realy follow Wales 7s in the WSS?

Anyway, good for T2s.. .
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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby theDarky » Mon, 29 Jun 2020, 14:39

Dont forget that Team GB was a two third english team in 2016

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rugby_sev ... at_Britain

and I don't think it will change for a while ....

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby Figaro » Mon, 29 Jun 2020, 15:15

victorsra wrote:Do you realy follow Wales 7s in the WSS?

Anyway, good for T2s.. .


Absolutely not, no, nor do I know anyone who does - we're pretty spoiled for rugby here! - hence it's being considered purely a developmental thing here. But I wouldn't follow a 15s Team GB either (I have no interest in the Lions). I guess my point was the GB branding would out me off anything, in contrast to Chester above who said he likes the idea.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby victorsra » Mon, 29 Jun 2020, 15:56

If nobody follows, let the space for T2s, we need it, T2 rugby relies a lot on Olympic money.
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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Mon, 29 Jun 2020, 16:59

Figaro wrote:
victorsra wrote:Do you realy follow Wales 7s in the WSS?

Anyway, good for T2s.. .


Absolutely not, no, nor do I know anyone who does - we're pretty spoiled for rugby here! - hence it's being considered purely a developmental thing here. But I wouldn't follow a 15s Team GB either (I have no interest in the Lions). I guess my point was the GB branding would out me off anything, in contrast to Chester above who said he likes the idea.


I love the Team GB brand. I have a weekly lottery ticket set up just to pay my way so we can enjoy watching Team GB collecting medals at the Olympic Games. I love England too, but for Olympic sports like sevens, basketball and ice hockey I love a bit of Team GB. B&I Lions is something different but I like that too.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby victorsra » Mon, 29 Jun 2020, 17:03

If WR is unable to finish the Sevens Challenge Series, I guess Japan and HK would be promoted an nobody relegated (Wales is the 15th atm). I don't believe in a reduced WSS, they don't care enough about 7s to screw T2s there.

For women's sevens nothing changes, Wales and Scotland aren't top teams.
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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Mon, 29 Jun 2020, 17:19

victorsra wrote:If WR is unable to finish the Sevens Challenge Series, I guess Japan and HK would be promoted an nobody relegated (Wales is the 15th atm). I don't believe in a reduced WSS, they don't care enough about 7s to screw T2s there.

For women's sevens nothing changes, Wales and Scotland aren't top teams.


Nothing changes, except that a talented Welsh or Scottish female player will have the chance to play for Team GB in the top tier.

Personally I don't have much interest in men's sevens but for the women's game I prefer sevens to fifteens.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby victorsra » Mon, 29 Jun 2020, 17:29

Anyway, I guess England, Wales and Scotland won't totaly disappear. They would still be formed to play the Commonwealth Games.

People in UK realy care about the Commonwealth Games?
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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Mon, 29 Jun 2020, 17:32

victorsra wrote:Anyway, I guess England, Wales and Scotland won't totaly disappear. They would still be formed to play the Commonwealth Games.

People in UK realy care about the Commonwealth Games?


I absolutely love the commonwealth games

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby victorsra » Mon, 29 Jun 2020, 17:34

I think GB could be the WSS + Olympics team, while England , Wales and Scotland could be formed for the shorter Grand Prix, RWC7s and Commonwealth Games (as it wouldn't require permanent squads), offering a path to Welsh and Scottish players (specialy important in the women's case).
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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby sk 88 » Mon, 29 Jun 2020, 17:41

theDarky wrote:
sk 88 wrote:The main issue around Team GB in 7s is who funds it, who selects the team and who governs it because it doesn't have a natural governing body.

I think there is a chance this is more kite flying from RFU's CEO Sweeney who is constantly in the media claiming things are happening and everyone is agreeing when they patently are not.


the British Olympic Association can fund it and I think the natural governing body should be the RFU for registering with a common home-nations comitee/company for the selection ...


The BOA isn't a bottomless pit of money. If the unions don't want to pay for it why will they? The BOA is the British tax payer, I don't really see the argument for "relatively rich sport asks for government subsidy because it doesn't want to run sport it campaigned to be introduced only a few years ago". Certainly it would have to be campaigned for, it wouldn't be a given.

If the RFU run it it's the England team, that's how it will be viewed.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby sk 88 » Mon, 29 Jun 2020, 17:42

victorsra wrote:If nobody follows, let the space for T2s, we need it, T2 rugby relies a lot on Olympic money.


To be fair Wales are trying their best to get relegated.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby sk 88 » Mon, 29 Jun 2020, 17:43

victorsra wrote:Anyway, I guess England, Wales and Scotland won't totaly disappear. They would still be formed to play the Commonwealth Games.

People in UK realy care about the Commonwealth Games?


Enough that it won't go away anytime soon and as you say the teams will be formed for it anyway.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Mon, 29 Jun 2020, 17:59

victorsra wrote:Anyway, I guess England, Wales and Scotland won't totaly disappear. They would still be formed to play the Commonwealth Games.

People in UK realy care about the Commonwealth Games?


I love the Commonwealth Games.

England can win medals in basketball, and Wales can will medals in rhythmic gymnastics at the commonwealth games. Do you know how amazing that is? Team GB cannot come close to qualifying for the Olympic Games in those sports, which means when the Olympic Games are on I don't get to see those sports at all. British broadcasters think I only want to watch Team GB win medals. They don't show anything if GB is not taking part. Commonwealth games is one of my favourite sports tournaments.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby victorsra » Mon, 29 Jun 2020, 18:10

sk 88 wrote:
theDarky wrote:
sk 88 wrote:The main issue around Team GB in 7s is who funds it, who selects the team and who governs it because it doesn't have a natural governing body.

I think there is a chance this is more kite flying from RFU's CEO Sweeney who is constantly in the media claiming things are happening and everyone is agreeing when they patently are not.


the British Olympic Association can fund it and I think the natural governing body should be the RFU for registering with a common home-nations comitee/company for the selection ...


The BOA isn't a bottomless pit of money. If the unions don't want to pay for it why will they? The BOA is the British tax payer, I don't really see the argument for "relatively rich sport asks for government subsidy because it doesn't want to run sport it campaigned to be introduced only a few years ago". Certainly it would have to be campaigned for, it wouldn't be a given.

If the RFU run it it's the England team, that's how it will be viewed.


How the Lions work? There is a special comitee with representative from the 4 unions, right?

I think the most logical thing is to have a UK Team Ltd run by a comitee of the 3 unions, with money coming from BOA, RFU, WRU, SRU, sharing costs (that would be much less than running alone a team) and spliting sponsorship profits (if achievable). If RFU pays more, SRU and WRU can offer their training centers or whatever. BTW, if the team is based in Wales or Scotland it would make it more British in the eyes of the public, I guess.
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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby sk 88 » Mon, 29 Jun 2020, 18:32

victorsra wrote:
sk 88 wrote:
theDarky wrote:
sk 88 wrote:The main issue around Team GB in 7s is who funds it, who selects the team and who governs it because it doesn't have a natural governing body.

I think there is a chance this is more kite flying from RFU's CEO Sweeney who is constantly in the media claiming things are happening and everyone is agreeing when they patently are not.


the British Olympic Association can fund it and I think the natural governing body should be the RFU for registering with a common home-nations comitee/company for the selection ...


The BOA isn't a bottomless pit of money. If the unions don't want to pay for it why will they? The BOA is the British tax payer, I don't really see the argument for "relatively rich sport asks for government subsidy because it doesn't want to run sport it campaigned to be introduced only a few years ago". Certainly it would have to be campaigned for, it wouldn't be a given.

If the RFU run it it's the England team, that's how it will be viewed.


How the Lions work? There is a special comitee with representative from the 4 unions, right?

I think the most logical thing is to have a UK Team Ltd run by a comitee of the 3 unions, with money coming from BOA, RFU, WRU, SRU, sharing costs (that would be much less than running alone a team) and spliting sponsorship profits (if achievable). If RFU pays more, SRU and WRU can offer their training centers or whatever. BTW, if the team is based in Wales or Scotland it would make it more British in the eyes of the public, I guess.


Why should the RFU pay more though?

That is an achievable structure.

The SRU have pooh-poohed it now anyway, so not convinced this was anything more than kite flying by Sweeney.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby victorsra » Mon, 29 Jun 2020, 18:42

I said "if RFU pays more". Just an If.

What SRU said? Source?

Even if he is kite flying, SRU and WRU are basicaly wasting money on sevens. It would be wise move if well negociated. If a permanent sevens squad has, let's say, 20 players involved, they could impose minimum of 5 players from each country.
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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 30 Jun 2020, 07:42

victorsra wrote:I guess Japan and HK would be promoted an nobody relegated (Wales is the 15th atm).

Would be typically German rugby luck. Lose one single game in over-time in two tournaments and don't get promoted AGAIN :cry:
But I reckon the HK 7s in October might still be on.

victorsra wrote:I don't believe in a reduced WSS, they don't care enough about 7s to screw T2s there.

It has been some time since I heard about it (can't back it up), but apparently they had already made some plans for a reduced World Series, so I wouldn't bet money on them not screwing Non-Cartel-nations over again.
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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby sk 88 » Tue, 30 Jun 2020, 11:22

victorsra wrote:I said "if RFU pays more". Just an If.

What SRU said? Source?

Even if he is kite flying, SRU and WRU are basicaly wasting money on sevens. It would be wise move if well negociated. If a permanent sevens squad has, let's say, 20 players involved, they could impose minimum of 5 players from each country.


Sorry misread.

Source was an SRU announcement on twitter. Yes I agree there is a logical argument for it. But nationalism and identity is rarely rational!

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby Figaro » Tue, 30 Jun 2020, 12:01

victorsra wrote:
sk 88 wrote:
theDarky wrote:
sk 88 wrote:The main issue around Team GB in 7s is who funds it, who selects the team and who governs it because it doesn't have a natural governing body.

I think there is a chance this is more kite flying from RFU's CEO Sweeney who is constantly in the media claiming things are happening and everyone is agreeing when they patently are not.


the British Olympic Association can fund it and I think the natural governing body should be the RFU for registering with a common home-nations comitee/company for the selection ...


The BOA isn't a bottomless pit of money. If the unions don't want to pay for it why will they? The BOA is the British tax payer, I don't really see the argument for "relatively rich sport asks for government subsidy because it doesn't want to run sport it campaigned to be introduced only a few years ago". Certainly it would have to be campaigned for, it wouldn't be a given.

If the RFU run it it's the England team, that's how it will be viewed.


How the Lions work? There is a special comitee with representative from the 4 unions, right?

I think the most logical thing is to have a UK Team Ltd run by a comitee of the 3 unions, with money coming from BOA, RFU, WRU, SRU, sharing costs (that would be much less than running alone a team) and spliting sponsorship profits (if achievable). If RFU pays more, SRU and WRU can offer their training centers or whatever. BTW, if the team is based in Wales or Scotland it would make it more British in the eyes of the public, I guess.


I think the people who would follow a GB branded team would follow it no matter where it was based, and those who wouldn't follow it wouldn't care where it was based either.

I don't think enough people care about 7s in the UK to really support the existing sides, so in terms of people paying to watch them it probably doesn't matter what you do, but there are at least some who would be very hostile to the precedent set by a GB rugby team - there was lots of objection to the Olympic teams in the first place, particularly in football where GB didn't used to participate at all.

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