Tier 2 & 3 Rugby Forum

Future powers from Tier 3

Poll

Algeria
11
28%
Zimbabwe
9
23%
Poland
5
13%
Colombia
9
23%
Other (name below)
5
13%
 
Total votes : 39
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Re: Future powers from Tier 3

Postby Tobar » Mon, 09 Jul 2018, 17:49

victorsra wrote:
Tobar wrote:
It's a pity that in some places rugby has this negative association with elitism. Even in England, you will find people who don't like it because of this.


Yup, it's a shame. When I was first told by a British person that rugby was an upper class sport I was surprised. My experience as an American (at least where I was from) was that most of the guys were more working class guys. I grew up in NYC suburbs in NJ and my first club was all New Jerseyans who did not commute - this basically gave off the impression of more working class suburban folk. They were also the kind of guys who liked to run around and hit people which helped give off this vibe a bit. Now I live and play in NYC and the upper class style is shoved in your face from all the Brits who play here.


Aren't clubs like NYAC and Old Blue in NY or Olympic in SF upper class clubs?


I suppose. They're D1 in expensive markets so anyone who plays for them takes rugby seriously and in order to afford living here they have to have good jobs. Many of them get connections from the old boys in the club and end up working in finance or commercial real estate. They're definitely not a ragtag group of guys who have issue throwing together some cash for field space or a van to take them to games. I will say thought that since they practice and play far up in the Bronx they tend to get some players from up there (and the Bronx isn't necessarily the wealthiest borough).

Though not everyone who plays for the club are necessarily upper class. Sometimes they are guys who take the game very seriously and with business connections end up with decent jobs to support the rugby life. My club is a bit less serious and has a decent amount of English players who came over here for work - many in finance - and wanted to keep playing rugby. They bring a lot of the schoolboy rugby kind of mentality. I wouldn't necessarily say that they are all "upper class" but I'm pretty sure they mostly come from the stereotypical English schoolboy rugby background. This is more along the lines of what I was referring to but I guess this is just splitting hairs here.

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Re: Future powers from Tier 3

Postby TheStroBro » Wed, 11 Jul 2018, 00:29

Tobar wrote:I suppose. They're D1 in expensive markets so anyone who plays for them takes rugby seriously and in order to afford living here they have to have good jobs. Many of them get connections from the old boys in the club and end up working in finance or commercial real estate. They're definitely not a ragtag group of guys who have issue throwing together some cash for field space or a van to take them to games. I will say thought that since they practice and play far up in the Bronx they tend to get some players from up there (and the Bronx isn't necessarily the wealthiest borough).

Though not everyone who plays for the club are necessarily upper class. Sometimes they are guys who take the game very seriously and with business connections end up with decent jobs to support the rugby life. My club is a bit less serious and has a decent amount of English players who came over here for work - many in finance - and wanted to keep playing rugby. They bring a lot of the schoolboy rugby kind of mentality. I wouldn't necessarily say that they are all "upper class" but I'm pretty sure they mostly come from the stereotypical English schoolboy rugby background. This is more along the lines of what I was referring to but I guess this is just splitting hairs here.


Not the players specifically, but the clubs themselves. NYAC and Olympic are extensions of athletic clubs that are very upperclass. However, Olympic doesn't recruit like NYAC does, and NYAC recruits renowned athletes from all over the world to put on their winged food. Old Blue is definitely an upper crusty club as well. Yet, Olympic doesn't have it's own pitch, they play at SFGG.

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Re: Future powers from Tier 3

Postby welshdragon2000 » Sun, 09 Feb 2020, 04:51

Reviving an old thread. Do people still think that Poland will become a future power? Hard to look past Colombia or the Netherlands for this title you’d think right now given the improvements made by these sides over the past couple of years.

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Re: Future powers from Tier 3

Postby Scoob » Sun, 09 Feb 2020, 05:56

It is going to take a long time whoever it is.
The reason Japan done so well at world cup is they had the $$$$$ to find very good coaches who then were able to keep them in camp longer than any nation to prepare for it.
No other tier 3 or even tier 2 country will have the $$$$ to achieve that with exception of possibly U.S.A.
So of the tier 3 nations you need to look for Athletes that have the physical data and athletism. Both Netherlands and Poland are very good sporting nations that have good potential,plus there governments put a lot more funding in Olympic sports,ie rugby 7s.

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Re: Future powers from Tier 3

Postby Working Class Rugger » Sun, 09 Feb 2020, 06:42

Scoob wrote:It is going to take a long time whoever it is.
The reason Japan done so well at world cup is they had the $$$$$ to find very good coaches who then were able to keep them in camp longer than any nation to prepare for it.
No other tier 3 or even tier 2 country will have the $$$$ to achieve that with exception of possibly U.S.A.
So of the tier 3 nations you need to look for Athletes that have the physical data and athletism. Both Netherlands and Poland are very good sporting nations that have good potential,plus there governments put a lot more funding in Olympic sports,ie rugby 7s.


Spain cannot be overlooked. Have been experiencing growth year on year for at least the last decade. Currently have a tick over 51,000 participants. If they manage to average 5% year on year for the next decade they'll crack 85k by 2030. There certainly seems to be some really solid infrastructure being put in place in both the Netherlands and Colombia. No idea about the likes of Poland. They certainly have the physical traits to progress. The question is whether they have the will and organisational nous to grow the game in their country while also providing a compelling enpugh proposition to draw in players of Polish decent to play for them in order to bolster their talent pool.

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Re: Future powers from Tier 3

Postby Canalina » Sun, 09 Feb 2020, 06:52

I'm an old participant of the forum and it's ten years or more that we say that Poland has the potential to be a powerful rugby nations: they have the physical traits, as WCR says, they have a good tv support and visibility, they are a populous nation (id est a potential large base of players and fans), they have an apparently well organized national championship, but they are always stuck in the same position of the european ranking, at the middle of the Trophy.
From my T2 rugby excel file (yes, I have one), these are the polish placements in Rugby Europe championship, from the most recent one to the one in 2000
10, 11, 9, 11, 10, 8, 10, 12, 14, 10, 8, 7, 13

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Re: Future powers from Tier 3

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Sun, 09 Feb 2020, 08:21

There are a lot of English children with Polish parents. Some of these will become professional rugby players in England no doubt.

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Re: Future powers from Tier 3

Postby Armchair Fan » Sun, 09 Feb 2020, 08:36

Working Class Rugger wrote:
Scoob wrote:It is going to take a long time whoever it is.
The reason Japan done so well at world cup is they had the $$$$$ to find very good coaches who then were able to keep them in camp longer than any nation to prepare for it.
No other tier 3 or even tier 2 country will have the $$$$ to achieve that with exception of possibly U.S.A.
So of the tier 3 nations you need to look for Athletes that have the physical data and athletism. Both Netherlands and Poland are very good sporting nations that have good potential,plus there governments put a lot more funding in Olympic sports,ie rugby 7s.


Spain cannot be overlooked. Have been experiencing growth year on year for at least the last decade. Currently have a tick over 51,000 participants. If they manage to average 5% year on year for the next decade they'll crack 85k by 2030. There certainly seems to be some really solid infrastructure being put in place in both the Netherlands and Colombia. No idea about the likes of Poland. They certainly have the physical traits to progress. The question is whether they have the will and organisational nous to grow the game in their country while also providing a compelling enpugh proposition to draw in players of Polish decent to play for them in order to bolster their talent pool.

We hace around 38,000, not 51,000

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Re: Future powers from Tier 3

Postby Edgar » Sun, 09 Feb 2020, 09:00

I have always thought Eastern Europe would become rugby's next major hotbed. They have both the physical and mental attributes to excel at the game. I spent some time in Russia a couple of decades ago and have never seen so many veritable giants in all my travels. They're also mentally tough and no doubts about their strong work ethic. I still believe Russia will emerge as one of the game's heavyweights in the 21st century, despite their awful start to this year's ENC. Obviously they have some internal issues to resolve. Ukraine was another nation I expected to do well but they have obviously suffered through political turmoil. Poland have certainly been a candidate for a very long time but appear to have made little progress in the pro era, for whatever reason. The weekend's results, meanwhile, were great for the competition and can only boost the prospects of an expanded World Cup in 2027.

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Re: Future powers from Tier 3

Postby ihateblazers » Sun, 09 Feb 2020, 09:37

It's a funny one regarding Eastern Europe. Georgia and Romania's competiveness seems to have come from the legacy of the Soviet Union and it's centralised sports programs. Whether or not we can still grow the game in other Eastern European nation's is difficult to say in the current political climate and with rugby's niche status.

No doubt that they have the toughness that is required in rugby and are natural hot bed options, but without the top down stimulus from global growth it is difficult to grow the game across the continent.

Hopefully Russia continues to be an outpost for the game in Europe, leading the way with their ambition. Resulting in development at Rugby Europe with large western economies continuing to develop, as that is where the stimulus will come from for the whole of the continent.

The Rugby Europe international game also needs to be revamped, utilising the advantage of the pan-EU market. Copying the 6 Nation's and hoping for promotion and relegation one day will not achieve that. Rugby Europe's plans to expand to 8 teams and to introduce a finals series is definitely a step in the right direction and I would like to see the same adapted with the ARC.

Then we will see further development in nation's such as Germany, Netherlands and Poland.

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