Tier 2 & 3 Rugby Forum

Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Are you:

For
8
12%
Against
57
88%
 
Total votes : 65
Posts: 2184
Joined: Thu, 23 Feb 2017, 01:37
National Flag:
United StatesUnited States

Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Postby TheStroBro » Sun, 21 Feb 2021, 23:35

victorsra wrote:Because 6N and European club rugby don't have all best players in the world. Very different from European soccer. It is not a global crown jewel. It is yet to do what NBA does for basketball or UEFA Champions League does for soccer. Or MLB to baseball, or NHL to Ice Hockey, etc etc. There is no charity being discussed. You haven't got the key point.


Eh, that's a game of Margins.

Posts: 96
Joined: Mon, 06 Jul 2020, 04:38
National Flag:
ScotlandScotland

Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Postby Rebus » Mon, 22 Feb 2021, 08:12

victorsra wrote: It is very problematic that RWC or 6N are not realy that valuable. Something went wrong. As a small sport, rugby needs one strong brand that does the job needed, with a taste of universality.

Then, I question: doesn rugby need to be that big? Well, indeed, it doesn't. What's the problem of being small? But the less competitive in a global industry it is, more trouble it will face in the future.

Rugby's competition are not valuable, that's the problem.


I would not expect rugby to be compared to these brands at this stage. It is a sport that has only been professional since the 1990's. When trying to compare brand values to the list you provided or the Forbes lists , you have to take into account the history of the sport and the year on year increases in the commmercial growth. A more interesting metric would be to compare the year on year growth of the value of the sport and you should see something more relevant. Rugby has been run by amateurs for too long and as soon as companies like CVC come into play , the only thing they are interested in is money. You should see an increase in brand value year on year going forward. Do not expect Leinster , Exeter or Racing 92 to compete with Real Madrid , Dallas Cowboys or Chicago Bulls as a brand but there is no reason why they cannot be growing brands in Europe.

Cant be too bothered about getting into a tit for tat exchange with yourself about the value of the World League , but as NZ and Australia lose more of their grip on retaining players into their domestic league in order to remain capped , you will see more teams in Europe signing these players . Sure some will go to Japan for the money , but as more money comes into the European game a trend will be for more to move to Europe to play. Japan and US will be more for topping up your pension. You already have it with the SA and Argentina players. European rugby should follow the UEFA model and grow internally and the rest of the world will have to follow. Providing the money men are at the top , you will see T2 countries in Europe become more involved and as Aus / NZ players only have a finite career , so will look to optimise that in future.

Posts: 9061
Joined: Thu, 17 Apr 2014, 02:51
Location: São Paulo
National Flag:
BrazilBrazil

Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Postby victorsra » Mon, 22 Feb 2021, 12:41

The first attempt of a world league in rugby wouldn't make the necessary impact, that's clear. I would never expect something realy good. But it needs to start somewhere, to eventualy improve in a good direction. Just like T2 rugby, it needs time. Rugby is already late in getting rid of useless tests.

Posts: 6178
Joined: Sat, 05 Jul 2014, 02:44
National Flag:
AustraliaAustralia

Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Postby thatrugbyguy » Wed, 24 Feb 2021, 11:34

victorsra wrote:This is definitly what explains better what I man: https://50mm.sportspromedia.com/properties/ Not a single rugby brand makes the list, not even RWC, 6N or All Blacks. Not even here: https://www.sportspromedia.com/analysis ... ot-hundred

People in rugby think about competitions, brands, etc, with a rugby community mind. What is needed is to think in terms of a global sports industry perspective. If you compete for people's attention (and we live in the 21st century, when people have A LOT of options) you need something that can somehow break bubbles from time to time. Rugby doesn't do that. It is a small sport, whose idols are not realy famous (outside the T1 bubble) and whose brands need a much better structure to grow. It is very problematic that RWC or 6N are not realy that valuable. Something went wrong. As a small sport, rugby needs one strong brand that does the job needed, with a taste of universality.

Then, I question: doesn rugby need to be that big? Well, indeed, it doesn't. What's the problem of being small? But the less competitive in a global industry it is, more trouble it will face in the future.

Rugby's competition are not valuable, that's the problem.


Rugby doesn't need to be big, but it needs a larger footprint than it does. I think if the game got to the stage were there were 20 competitive nations and another 15-20 T2 level nations below, that's more than enough.

User avatar
Posts: 1439
Joined: Thu, 28 Apr 2016, 14:02
Location: Las Canteras, Uruguay
National Flag:
UruguayUruguay

Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Postby NaBUru38 » Tue, 16 Mar 2021, 13:09

Rebus wrote:I believe the SH teams need the World League more than European teams do.

Outside the World Cup the jewel in the crown is the 6 Nations and the best club competitions are in Europe . Why break it up for altruism ? It would be nice to say the 6 Nations would do that and we can speculate how they will do it , but the reality is European Rugby will call the shots on this.

Exactly. Countries like Uruguay would benefit from a World League, because it would guarantee us the chance to play versus competitive teams.

User avatar
Posts: 6629
Joined: Sun, 27 Apr 2014, 11:50
National Flag:
ItalyItaly

Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Postby Canalina » Thu, 18 Mar 2021, 17:49

The publication of the new women competition, a world league called WXV and starting in 2023, revealed an aspect that no-one of us predicted, I think, during the discussions about the possible men's World League: if the league is linked every year to 6N's and 4N's results, no one team has a guaranteed spot. I mean, if you want to have year by year the Six Nations and the Championships and the continental championships as qualifiers to the autumnal World League, every year the nations of the various pools of the World League could completely change. An England winning the League one year could play in the third level the next year, if they finish sixth in the while in the Six Nations. It's simple, but apparently between the fans nobody pre-viewed that.
So I think that in an eventual men's World League (more probable to be realized, now that there's already a women's one) the organizers will have the dilemma between forming the pools on the basis of the precedent edition or on the basis of the continental tournaments.
In the second case the promotion or relegation obtained by a team should be transferred, we think (World Rugby has still not given details about), to the relative continent: Italy winning the second pool, for example, would give one more spot in the first pool to the european nations in the next year.

Posts: 9061
Joined: Thu, 17 Apr 2014, 02:51
Location: São Paulo
National Flag:
BrazilBrazil

Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Postby victorsra » Thu, 18 Mar 2021, 18:14

IIRC, the last World League proposal had a top division with 8 teams, being 3 6N, 3 TRC, 2 others. Wouldn't have such problem.

User avatar
Posts: 6629
Joined: Sun, 27 Apr 2014, 11:50
National Flag:
ItalyItaly

Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Postby Canalina » Thu, 18 Mar 2021, 18:30

But will those 3 6N, 3 TRC, 2 others teams be decided by the placement in the last edition of the League or by the placement in the same year edition of 6N, TRC and regional championships?
In the first case you risk to have after few years a top group composed, for example, by five 6N and three TRC, if every year a 6N is promoted and an "others" nation is relegated; if instead you want to keep always a fixed number for every tournament (3 6N, 3 TRC, 2 others) you probably have to use every year the relative tournaments as qualifiers, so the teams in the top group could entirely change every year

Posts: 9061
Joined: Thu, 17 Apr 2014, 02:51
Location: São Paulo
National Flag:
BrazilBrazil

Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Postby victorsra » Thu, 18 Mar 2021, 19:08

IIRC, it was something like "2 best ranked teams outside 6N/TRC", being 1 European and one of the rest ("South", but "South" in rugby includes Asia and North America :lol: ).

Probably because they haven't figured out the best way to qualify those teams (at least the Rest of the World team) and because what is politicaly important is to get the 6N/TRC union on board. The rest is a "detail". Not sure how much this idea advanced.

Posts: 1840
Joined: Sun, 18 May 2014, 13:27
National Flag:
AustraliaAustralia

Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Postby Working Class Rugger » Thu, 18 Mar 2021, 22:29

Canalina wrote:But will those 3 6N, 3 TRC, 2 others teams be decided by the placement in the last edition of the League or by the placement in the same year edition of 6N, TRC and regional championships?
In the first case you risk to have after few years a top group composed, for example, by five 6N and three TRC, if every year a 6N is promoted and an "others" nation is relegated; if instead you want to keep always a fixed number for every tournament (3 6N, 3 TRC, 2 others) you probably have to use every year the relative tournaments as qualifiers, so the teams in the top group could entirely change every year


An 8 team first division will likely never fly to be honest. The 3 6Ns and 1 RC team that miss out will kick up a huge stink. Guaranteed. Especially if the likes of Georgia were to qualify via the REC and say Ireland or France missed out. The men's game also tends to run deeper than the women's at present. And any structure should reflect that. If they were to go with a World league the 1st division should be 16 teams. They could be split into two pools of 8. There's actually room in both Test windows for each team to play 7 pool game plus finals. The 2nd division could be structured the same. Under this set up they would have the option of doing it either as an annual of biennial competition. The latter would allow for every team to play one another in each cycle. Which is actually what I'd prefer to see.

Something else I hope we see is something involving the U20s. I know with have the respective annual competitions but I think we could be better served looking to be more expansive at that level as well. This is also the level where the greatest level of improvement can be measured and implemented going forward. Even if it involving merging the Cup and the Trophy.
Last edited by Working Class Rugger on Thu, 18 Mar 2021, 22:35, edited 1 time in total.

Posts: 9061
Joined: Thu, 17 Apr 2014, 02:51
Location: São Paulo
National Flag:
BrazilBrazil

Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Postby victorsra » Thu, 18 Mar 2021, 22:32

Why? They would still play each other, plus maybe Japan (that is the new cool kid), if Fiji gets the division 1 spot.

Posts: 1840
Joined: Sun, 18 May 2014, 13:27
National Flag:
AustraliaAustralia

Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Postby Working Class Rugger » Thu, 18 Mar 2021, 22:47

victorsra wrote:Why? They would still play each other, plus maybe Japan (that is the new cool kid), if Fiji gets the division 1 spot.


Because they idea of being in the 2nd division would be offensive to them and they'd argue that the 1st division wouldn't be as competitive nor as attractive in terms of viewers and $. I'm not saying it's a overly strong argument or one that I would support. But it's one that I think will inevitably emerge.

Posts: 6178
Joined: Sat, 05 Jul 2014, 02:44
National Flag:
AustraliaAustralia

Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Postby thatrugbyguy » Fri, 19 Mar 2021, 13:39

T1 nations have to suck it up. One of these days one of them is going to fail to qualify for the RWC. Best they learn some humility now.

User avatar
Posts: 1439
Joined: Thu, 28 Apr 2016, 14:02
Location: Las Canteras, Uruguay
National Flag:
UruguayUruguay

Re: Your feelings on the World League proposal (poll reset)

Postby NaBUru38 » Sat, 27 Mar 2021, 16:18

I'm fine that the WXV will have a 6-team first division. I would oppose the men's tournament to have 6 teams.

Previous

Return to Rugby Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Thomas and 18 guests