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Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby victorsra » Sun, 20 Dec 2020, 13:51

Salta wrote:
victorsra wrote:I've just talked to the Brazilian coaching staff. They are studying the possibility of having Argies. But they haven't ruled out having an all-Brazilian team.

The fact they are considering it is realy news.

But the team is 100% Brazilian Rugby Union. Unless something changed this month, there is no private money. This means most fans will get angry if the team is not 100% national team. The relationship between clubs, fans and Brazilian Rugby Union is realy hurt and the option for Corinthians only damaged it a bit more. It is a bless there won't be home matches for Brazil, because very few people would show up.


This is hard to understand to me, they want a 100% national team but the national team have some non-Brazilian players. If they accept foreigners in the national representative called Brazil, why not in this team?


It is easy. Most of those foreigner players played first in our cub rugby (for exemple, Beukes Cremer, De Wet Van Niekerk, Will Broderick, Josh Reeves... Josh is very popular, he has strong connection to our amateur club rugby). They are "one of us", part of our rugby community. It isn't a xenophobic feeling. It is a matter of wanting that the national team represents our rugby.

But, most importantly, nobody in Brazil is realy excited about having a SLAR franchise, because it is fake. It is a team created by CBRu with CBRu money, while club rugby is in its worst condition in like a decade or more. CBRu is very unpopular in Brazilian rugby community because it turned its back to the community. Probably, if the franchise was like Olimpia or Peñarol, or if here were two franchises rivaling each other, Argentine players woud be more than welcome.

What is still popular is the national team, because it is the country's representation. It had very poor attendances recently, yes, but still people cheer for the Tupis. This means the SLAR team is only justifiable if it makes the Tupis stronger. Therefore, it isn't a problem to have foreigner players, provided they can play for the Tupis. Although some people complain when the player hasn't played in our club rugby. But this was a feeling stronger in the past. Guys like the Sancerys or Dell'Acqua helped to break this feeling.

In the end, we all know that if the Jaguares players make the Brazilian team win, many people will be more than fine with them. But there will be questions about CBRu money used for players that can't represent the Tupis. Remember, CBRu is using its own money to become "Corinthians". Imagine if UAR was financing a River Plate rugby franchise, 100% with UAR money, 0% River Plate money. Would be a scandal, right? CBRu's decisions damaged their image and whatever comes together. How to become more popular? With more players coming from the community, because it creates a stronger bond.

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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby victorsra » Tue, 29 Dec 2020, 02:22

The argentine Rodolfo Ambrosio, former Brazil (2014-2019) and Pumitas (until 2014) coach is the new Cafeteros coach.

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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby Tobar » Tue, 29 Dec 2020, 02:25

victorsra wrote:The argentine Rodolfo Ambrosio, former Brazil (2014-2019) and Pumitas (until 2014) coach is the new Cafeteros coach.


Just saw that, interesting. I expected David Jaramillo or Sebastian Mejia to be the head coach because they are the Tucanes head coaches. It’s always good to bring una another coach with more experience but I just assumed that they would have their head coach working for SLAR and the Tucanes.

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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby Tobar » Wed, 30 Dec 2020, 23:56

Post from SAR announcing the hire. Victor, what are your thoughts on him as a coach? They talk a lot about high performance in the article so I wonder how active he will be in developing Colombia’s HP programs.

https://www.sudamerica.rugby/espanol/ca ... -3?nid=571

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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby argie » Thu, 31 Dec 2020, 02:10

The Tupis' best performances came when he was the Head Coach.

http://www.americasrugbynews.com/2020/1 ... o-in-slar/

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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby victorsra » Thu, 31 Dec 2020, 04:16

He did a real revolution with the Tupis. He is good. It wasn't the best work about relationship with clubs or properly developing he environment, but he was here to achieve results and he achieved them. The problem is that he costed more than what CBRu should spend on a coach, as we had many other areas that needed money. Anyway, if you want one name to credit Brazil's first-time victories (against USA, Canada, Argentina XV, etc), it is him.

I bet we'll see Ambrosio leading a first Colombian victory over Brazil. Maybe not in 2021, but by 2022 or 2023.

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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby Raven » Sat, 02 Jan 2021, 10:01

Taking the list of Jaguares we mentioned above, and with the recent transfer announcements this is what's left of the squad for the potential "draft":

Forwards: Javier Díaz, Francisco Gorrisen, Javier Ortega Desio, Bautista Pedemonte (injured), Joel Sclavi (injured), Mayco Vivas (likely to leave)

Backs: Tomás Albornoz, Gonzalo Bertranou (likely to leave), Sebastián Cancelliere, Felipe Ezcurra, Juan Cruz Mallía (likely to leave), Juan Pablo Castro.

Plus the recent Pumas who travelled to Australia,

Forwards: Jose Luis Gonzalez, Federico Wezgryn, Juan Pablo Zeiss, Rodrigo Fernandez Criado, Juan Martin Gonzalez & Joaquin Oviedo
Backs: Lucio Cinti (likely to return to 7s, or remain in the argentine structure)

So now more than ever it seems clear that the SLAR will be made up of Argentina XV players rather than Jaguares (we assumed it but as some big names were still out of contract we had some hope...) and clears some doubts on why the 2 franchise idea sounded great but was difficult to materialize (at least for now, I have no doubt another team would have been competitive, although probably not to the expected high standard the UAR would have wanted)

Also it's extremely hard to say what will happen with Ceibos. I read articles and I cannot understand how does the UAR want to overtake the project if they signed a 5 year deal with the benefactor. Perhaps some locals would help me see something I'm missing?

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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Sat, 02 Jan 2021, 10:42

I guess they have decided that the SLAR and the Argentinian club competitions will provide enough of a conveyor belt of talent to supply the Pumas with top class players. They could be right.

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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby Tobar » Sun, 03 Jan 2021, 21:07

victorsra wrote:He did a real revolution with the Tupis. He is good. It wasn't the best work about relationship with clubs or properly developing he environment, but he was here to achieve results and he achieved them. The problem is that he costed more than what CBRu should spend on a coach, as we had many other areas that needed money. Anyway, if you want one name to credit Brazil's first-time victories (against USA, Canada, Argentina XV, etc), it is him.

I bet we'll see Ambrosio leading a first Colombian victory over Brazil. Maybe not in 2021, but by 2022 or 2023.


This only has Ambrosio as taking over head coach for the Cafeteros, not the national team. However, he is far more qualified for the national team so I would not be that surprised to see him announced as their head coach as well. Either way, he will be supporting the national team so this will extend beyond SLAR.

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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby Tobar » Sun, 03 Jan 2021, 21:17

Great article shared by FCR about Cafeteros Pro. Most important info is that there are 4 investors and the total investment/budget this year is 1.14 billion COP (around $330,000). They break down exactly how that money is spent too.

https://www.elcolombiano.com/deportes/o ... DA14361376

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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby Tobar » Mon, 04 Jan 2021, 00:28

To add to this, the players are being paid 4.5 million COP per month ($1269 USD). This is not chump change by any means and likely more than many of these players were making before. Good to see that they’re paid well and not making huge sacrifices just to play (assuming they all make around the same).

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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby carbonero » Mon, 04 Jan 2021, 03:05

Wow. Are you sure? That is like five times the minimum wage.

Raven wrote:Also it's extremely hard to say what will happen with Ceibos. I read articles and I cannot understand how does the UAR want to overtake the project if they signed a 5 year deal with the benefactor. Perhaps some locals would help me see something I'm missing?


I don’t see it. The UAR didn’t specify which team will participate so local outlets started speculating. Yet, nobody has reported the change. Riccomi is also talking as if he has the green light.

Peñarol signed former Pumita Manuel Nogués > https://www.elciudadanoweb.com/manuel-n ... -todo-eso/

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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby Tobar » Mon, 04 Jan 2021, 05:53

Yeah, the article says how much they are paying players. $400 million COP for 3 months divided by 30 players. The minimum wage shouldn’t really be taken too much into account because it’s so low in Colombia and I wouldn’t be surprised if they had to pay a certain amount or the Argentinian players (to meet a league standard). It’s also only for 3 months so it’s not a very long season of pay.

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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby carbonero » Mon, 04 Jan 2021, 21:48

Ok, that seems fair. I though it was an anual HP contract like Brazil does. And US$ 1.200 would be too steep in that context.

Ambrosio just confirmed to ESPN Scrum that he will be part of Colombia’s staff after SLAR. Apparently, the draft already happened. Cafeteros selected 10 Argentines pending approval from the UAR. Thus, 20 Colombians in the squad.

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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby Tobar » Mon, 04 Jan 2021, 23:45

carbonero wrote:Ok, that seems fair. I though it was an anual HP contract like Brazil does. And US$ 1.200 would be too steep in that context.

Ambrosio just confirmed to ESPN Scrum that he will be part of Colombia’s staff after SLAR. Apparently, the draft already happened. Cafeteros selected 10 Argentines pending approval from the UAR. Thus, 20 Colombians in the squad.


Nice! I figured that this move meant he would be involved in some capacity with FCR. Really great news for Colombia. I can’t wait for SLAR, I miss rugby and with the ARC/ARCh basically being dead I have no other outlet for Colombian rugby.

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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby Tobar » Tue, 05 Jan 2021, 03:30


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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby victorsra » Tue, 05 Jan 2021, 14:54

The Brazilian team will need Argentines to avoid finish 6th. It is a real problem, because they realy wanted the team to be 100% Tupis. But I think they are reay worried about the prospect of being the worst team. SLAR doesn't realy matter, but that can have a negative impact on the squad's morale right before the RWC Qualy. Hence the need of Argies.

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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby Tiernster » Tue, 05 Jan 2021, 15:39

Does anyone know if the MLR SLAR playoff is gone for 2021 or permanently?

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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby victorsra » Tue, 05 Jan 2021, 16:54

Unlikely to happen as North-South relationship is not good anymore. But maybe, if there is a World Club Champions Cup.... who knows?

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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby carbonero » Tue, 05 Jan 2021, 17:12

MLR is independent. The door is still open to make it happen.

victorsra wrote:The Brazilian team will need Argentines to avoid finish 6th. It is a real problem, because they realy wanted the team to be 100% Tupis. But I think they are reay worried about the prospect of being the worst team. SLAR doesn't realy matter, but that can have a negative impact on the squad's morale right before the RWC Qualy. Hence the need of Argies.

Those 10 players are not going to move the needle. Panceira, Acosta, Corvalán, Ferrario and García have experience but the rest are raw prospects. Brazil should still be one step above Cafeteros/Olimpia.

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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby victorsra » Tue, 05 Jan 2021, 17:23

True, MLR is independent, but remember what happened in 2020? The date revealed in the press for the MLR-SLAR match was the same of the MLR final, which meant something wasn't right. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1446&p=123213&hilit=slar+mlr+match#p123213

AFAIK we never saw any comment from North Americans about such match. If I haven't missed anything, that was 100% coming from South America. North American posters could help us.

Those 10 players are not going to move the needle. Panceira, Acosta, Corvalán, Ferrario and García have experience but the rest are raw prospects. Brazil should still be one step above Cafeteros/Olimpia.

It is 2/3 of the ideal XV. If they face the Brazilian team with their ideal team I wouldn't be that confident....

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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby TheStroBro » Tue, 05 Jan 2021, 17:53

I can honestly tell you that there was never anything of that being talked about up here. It also made zero sense with SLAR being in its first year.

Also, I think people overestimate the value of such a match or competition in North America. We get really hyped up about our domestic leagues because the top 4 leagues here are the best in the world. The best players in the world come to play in them. That's the value. The Concacaf Champions League really doesn't get much press time up here, and the games are always at weird times or so it seems. People say there is value in such a match to broadcasters, but currently MLR is paying for all of its broadcast production and providing a product via an ad-share agreement with the broadcasters. So limited risk for the broadcast company when MLR produces to the standards set by the broadcaster. There won't be value in such a match or competition until broadcast companies are paying rights fees that equal production costs.

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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby Tobar » Tue, 05 Jan 2021, 18:10

There won't be huge value but the fans would certainly be interested in watching it. It would be excellent to see a Champions Cup style of tournament with top 3 from each league or something like that. But I don't see that happening for years - anything that happens now is a one-off match or tour.

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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby victorsra » Tue, 05 Jan 2021, 18:16

That's what I thought.

Concacaf Champions League is realy weird. I always look the attendances and their are usualy (but not always) poor in USA, which suggests not many people care about it, which is sad, because it gives a spot in the FIFA Club World Cup (which also shows the Club World Cup is still far from the importance it needs... not surprisingly the expanded model was proposed).

However, probably the fact that MLS teams NEVER win the Concacaf Champions League also doesn't help. Only DC United in 1998 and LA Galaxy in 2000 won it. And in the last 20 years, only 4 times MLS teams were runner up (Real Salt Lake 2011, Montreal Impact 2015, Toronto FC 2018 and LAFC 2020). Maybe the real problem are these underachiving results.

If Ceibos or Peñarol (or Jaguares in the future... maybe?) prove themselves too good, such Americas Super Cup could become a Conca Champions deja vu.

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Re: Superliga Americana de Rugby (SLAR)

Postby ficcp » Wed, 06 Jan 2021, 02:11

You are going to fast. Let´s establish the SLAR ( which is still a project) first, and then it will be possible to propose a match or a tournament with the best MLR teams. It will take 2 or 3 seasons to fully evaluate SLAR.

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