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REC Playoff: Germany v Portugal 15th June 2019

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Re: REC Playoff: Germany v Portugal 15th June 2019

Postby Wolves » Sat, 15 Jun 2019, 13:49

Germany 32 - 37 Portugal


FT

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Re: REC Playoff: Germany v Portugal 15th June 2019

Postby RugbyLiebe » Sat, 15 Jun 2019, 14:02

Congrats to Portugal.
Can't say anything about the game, but I have to agree with armchair.
The "livestream"-drama fits perfectly in.

Time to wake up and put more efforts into grasroots rugby and for every single member of the German rugby federation to put their hands up to work hard to improve.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: REC Playoff: Germany v Portugal 15th June 2019

Postby 4N » Sat, 15 Jun 2019, 14:05

Congrats Portugal. Hopefully their strongest squads with all eligible players are called upon next season.

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Re: REC Playoff: Germany v Portugal 15th June 2019

Postby FLIDTA RISXVA » Sat, 15 Jun 2019, 14:11

So, Round 1 of REC 2020,
in early FEB, would be
POR-GEO, BEL-SPN, RUS-ROM


Sorry, mates, folks reminded me at FORUM.GE
that seedings are worked out on two year aggregate,
ie 2019 + 2020 - DEDUCTIONS :oops:


Next batch of APOLOGIES -- it is 33 degrees here and
I'm watching S15 and Handball on two adjacent PCs

2020 is a SECOND year of TWO-season cycle

Hence, there would be
1) RETURN fixtures and
2) GER simply replaced by POR

Hence, R1 in Feb 2020 would be
GEO-ROM, RUS-SPN, POR-BEL

:::
Last edited by FLIDTA RISXVA on Sat, 15 Jun 2019, 15:25, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: REC Playoff: Germany v Portugal 15th June 2019

Postby victorsra » Sat, 15 Jun 2019, 14:12

Parabéns, Lobos! A justice for a country that performs so well in youth rugby. They deserve.

Ridiculous month for countries we thought were promising. Germany can't work a damn streaming, Brazil can't put butts in the stadium for a fucking valuable test. Feels a step backwards.

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Re: REC Playoff: Germany v Portugal 15th June 2019

Postby amz » Sat, 15 Jun 2019, 14:14

Congrats Portugal, I hope this will trigger more focus on administrative work in both Unions, one stimulated by the promotion the other looking at what it did wrong to relegate.

I'd like Romania to play in Lisbon next year, missus insists a city break there :))

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Re: REC Playoff: Germany v Portugal 15th June 2019

Postby qwerty » Sat, 15 Jun 2019, 14:48

Who would have thought two years ago that if Portugal should be promoted it would be over Germany and not Belgium.

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Re: REC Playoff: Germany v Portugal 15th June 2019

Postby rey200 » Sat, 15 Jun 2019, 15:24

Basically I second what RL and 4N write.
Hopefully Portugal will call the best players they have and Germany will step up their grassroot work.
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Re: REC Playoff: Germany v Portugal 15th June 2019

Postby Edgar » Sat, 15 Jun 2019, 15:45

Disappointing to see Germany headed for the second division. It was only two years ago they beat Romania and people began to speculate on their future addition to the 6 Nations. Remember this? https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/germ ... -cf0lxrrll

Is the sponsorship row still plaguing them? From what I know about German rugby, they have about 12K players and the small city of Heidelberg is the stronghold. They were a fairly handy team before WWII, beat France a couple of times (for whatever that was worth) and won a medal at the Olympics (for finishing last-equal)! In fact, I believe Germany was the first country in which rugby was ever played outside of the British Isles, even before France.

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Re: REC Playoff: Germany v Portugal 15th June 2019

Postby Zhenya_Zima » Sun, 16 Jun 2019, 22:29

It's hard to imagine a Union with more potential imploding (and being failed, too) in a more spectacular manner in a quicker time than this particular incarnation of the DRV.
You can beat Romania. You can be in the running for a RWC place (fortuitously, admittedly), you can bang on the door of European club rugby (still a disgusting decision), and be right there screaming for Core Status (and a leg in Munich) for the Sevens, but hey, why wouldn't you to revert to having pissing contests up a wall between Heidelberg and Hannover? (I guess all the cameras were covering that somewhere. Again.) Damn shame Germany, please don't now go full-on Kazakhstan/Moldova on us. Nevertheless, welcome back Lobos, here's to your showing at youth transferring to REC. It makes us all stronger.

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Re: REC Playoff: Germany v Portugal 15th June 2019

Postby victorsra » Mon, 17 Jun 2019, 02:28

Zhenya_Zima wrote:It's hard to imagine a Union with more potential imploding (and being failed, too) in a more spectacular manner in a quicker time than this particular incarnation of the DRV.
You can beat Romania. You can be in the running for a RWC place (fortuitously, admittedly), you can bang on the door of European club rugby (still a disgusting decision), and be right there screaming for Core Status (and a leg in Munich) for the Sevens, but hey, why wouldn't you to revert to having pissing contests up a wall between Heidelberg and Hannover? (I guess all the cameras were covering that somewhere. Again.) Damn shame Germany, please don't now go full-on Kazakhstan/Moldova on us. Nevertheless, welcome back Lobos, here's to your showing at youth transferring to REC. It makes us all stronger.

Easy to imagine. It wont take much time to see Brazil having the same fate, unless we really change the course of our (now unstainable) development... Some countries are trying to find shortcuts to grow while realy tackling long term issues.

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Re: REC Playoff: Germany v Portugal 15th June 2019

Postby thatrugbyguy » Mon, 17 Jun 2019, 04:41

Well, I'm disappointed. Great for Portugal, really good to see them back in the REC and if I had my wish both Portugal and Germany would be in that competition. The last 3 or 4 years has seen Germany go from finally breaking through and reestablishing itself its rugby potential, a standing they hadn't had since before World War 2, to being relegated to the RET. To think they were within striking distance of an unlikely World Cup qualification. This is a set back yes, no doubt, but maybe this is the kick up the butt they need. They've seen the summit, we've all seen the potential, now they need to get the right people involved to make this all work. Basically, I agree with Zhenya, Germany can't be allowed to regress. If ever there is going to be a case for some type of European Championship or expanded 6 Nation with promotion and relegation the game needs a German team that is matching it with the likes or Georgia and Romania.

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Re: REC Playoff: Germany v Portugal 15th June 2019

Postby suofficer » Mon, 17 Jun 2019, 06:31

I think World Rugby needs to do more to be honest. I know that's easy to say but that game on Saturday shouldn't have been a game to see who gets more exposure and who plays a much lower level of rugby for the next year. Both teams should have been able to take something positive away.

Sad to see Germany relegated, it was a hell of a game.

How Portugal will deal with this league should be interesting. If they automatically drop the domestic based players who have done so much over the last few years they risk isolating people and the domestic clubs, if they don't pick their best XV we will be straight back down.

The relief of going back is huge though. Out of the shadows a little now, as many have you said a lot of credit must go to the youth setup.

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Re: REC Playoff: Germany v Portugal 15th June 2019

Postby Caledor » Mon, 17 Jun 2019, 08:26

A great result for Portugal and there has been some good work done in the systems and management of player resources in the last few years on top of having a decent amount of talent coming through the age groups. The club rugby there will hopefully make progress and professionalize more which will benefit the country going further.

Germany, what a shame for them. It was a summary of the complete reverse German rugby has taken in the last few months. Heidelberger RK qualifying for the European Challenge Cup, Germany in the RWC Repechage and then also bidding for a World 7s Series have all been really exciting and positive events. And then the explosion, Heidelberger RK blocked from participation in the EPCR Challenge Cup, Wild Academy falling apart as Wild pulls the plug on this, Germany not making RWC 2019, the constant squabbling of the DBV management, DBV and Peter Wild (as a key investor) erratic relations, a turnstile of coaches for the national teams and now relegation from Rugby Europe Championship pretty much sums up the state of DBV and Germany rugby. They going to need to turn things around as we really need a strong German Rugby national set up and club game.

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Re: REC Playoff: Germany v Portugal 15th June 2019

Postby suofficer » Tue, 18 Jun 2019, 08:25

So this doesn't seem to have had any effect on world rugby rankings? i thought it would have. anyone got any ideas why not?

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Re: REC Playoff: Germany v Portugal 15th June 2019

Postby Edgar » Tue, 18 Jun 2019, 08:30

suofficer wrote:So this doesn't seem to have had any effect on world rugby rankings? i thought it would have. anyone got any ideas why not?


Sorry if I'm pointing out the obvious, but Portugal were already five places ahead of Germany in the rankings.

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Re: REC Playoff: Germany v Portugal 15th June 2019

Postby suofficer » Tue, 18 Jun 2019, 10:11

no i know, i just thought portugal would have been awarded points for it

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Re: REC Playoff: Germany v Portugal 15th June 2019

Postby RugInt » Tue, 18 Jun 2019, 12:21

So this doesn't seem to have had any effect on world rugby rankings? i thought it would have. anyone got any ideas why not?


Yes I noticed that when I was updating the rankings on my web site. Perhaps they just forgot :roll:

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Re: REC Playoff: Germany v Portugal 15th June 2019

Postby FLIDTA RISXVA » Tue, 18 Jun 2019, 14:13

NO GER-POR here >> https://www.world.rugby/results

HENCE, it had NO bearing on rankings

WR simply missed that REC barrage -- NOT so uncommon for them :lol:

:::

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Re: REC Playoff: Germany v Portugal 15th June 2019

Postby thatrugbyguy » Tue, 18 Jun 2019, 15:16

suofficer wrote:I think World Rugby needs to do more to be honest. I know that's easy to say but that game on Saturday shouldn't have been a game to see who gets more exposure and who plays a much lower level of rugby for the next year. Both teams should have been able to take something positive away.

Sad to see Germany relegated, it was a hell of a game.

How Portugal will deal with this league should be interesting. If they automatically drop the domestic based players who have done so much over the last few years they risk isolating people and the domestic clubs, if they don't pick their best XV we will be straight back down.

The relief of going back is huge though. Out of the shadows a little now, as many have you said a lot of credit must go to the youth setup.


Yes, welcome back to the top division.

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Re: REC Playoff: Germany v Portugal 15th June 2019

Postby zapf321 » Tue, 18 Jun 2019, 15:39

It’s really nice to see the good wishes for the German rugby future , but I’m wondering, whether you guys have a real idea of the reality in German rugby. First of all, it’s a very, very small community that even cares about rugby. And this small community seems being divided in “traditionalists”, who want to keep everything going on as usual - developing the sport means keeping up the old values (not to be misunderstood, I like the rugby values and traditions), the idea that my old club is my family and if the rest of the people who are keen on sports don’t realize the great and honourable rugby sport, who cares, it’s their problem…. And there are others, who are trying to get this sport out of its niche by f.e. getting it into tv or live streams, by trying to play in bigger stadiums, by blaming the federation for not announcing matches in time….. If you had a look at the live stream of the relegation match f.e. it was a total mess.
Afterwards the guys who were complaining this mess were blamed by what I call the traditionalists, for “just making sallys” and for not enough thankfulness to the team and the organizers. Accusing them for “just not getting satisfied their personal needs” (= watching the match on TV/Live stream) and if they would have been really interested in rugby, they should have had to manage to go to the match and so on. So, in their opinion TV live coverage couldn’t be a real option, because it prevents from going to the pitch.
Yes, we had a bubble with the Wild boys and all those things around and that bubble exploded one and a half years ago. To be honest, daily reality is far away from any participation in a RWC. (In our small town, the first rugby club was founded 3 or 4 years ago. They’re developing slowly, but up to now constantly. But there’s still no response from the local press, matches aren’t still announced in the press and they’re playing far away from any public interest. A friend of mine, who’s knowing that I’m interested in rugby asked me during last spring twice to accompany him to one of the two last home games. We arranged two dates, with both times the same result: the match was postponed due to the opponents beeing not able to travel because of lack of players. Just to illustrate some aspects of the situation..)
To come back to the beginning. German rugby needs more players to develop from the bottom to the top, but that requires more public interest. But as long as great parts of German rugby community prefers fighting each other, there won’t be too many steps towards a better future.

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Re: REC Playoff: Germany v Portugal 15th June 2019

Postby Raven » Tue, 18 Jun 2019, 15:55

Took a while for me to come back to this topic after Saturday´s result.

- 1st, congrats to Portugal, didn´t expect them to win the game in the previous days, but they showed they wanted it more.
- Michael Poppmeier (GER) has now officially retired of the International stage, TBH I thought he had before, as he was unavailable for the whole REC tournament. Cheap gossip says there might be others to follow (i.e: D.Barber & R.Parkinson), but cannot say for sure.
- It will be very difficult now to get the players in ProD2, Kurt Haupt, or any other German qualified player to come from a PRO league to play for Germany, even more difficult than it was before.

Don´t want to "paint the devil on the wall", but dark times are indeed ahead of German Rugby with politics still being the main issue in the union over the sporting results.

I am ALL IN for growing grassroots and going on that approach, even if it may take time to see the results of that investment at senior level. But (and with no dissrespect to anybody and everybody doing that job already) Junior Rugby in Germany is almost non-existant and IMO things are unlikely to change soon with people not thinking outside the box. See the tournaments in rugbyweb.de, without a mildly succesful National Team appearing in news headlines, it will be a tough job to have kids in clubs...
Many in the DRV may be happy now saying how "Wild is to be blamed for this" as having a sole benefactor aiding a team was always destined to fail, and how they were always right when crying "wolf", etc etc. The sole idea revolves my stomach.

Every Union on any level has its problems, being relegated is not the end of the world either, what really saddens me is that the people that run rugby in Germany have been focused on a lot of issues and left the most important one aside. They celebrated the on and off-field victories that didn´t really belong to "the job" they were doing, and pointed with their fingers when the results did not come. It scares me to think that now the main focus will be 7s and if that doesn´t work for the next World Series or Tokyo 2020 (which I believe is very possible as there are other sides of proven world stage value to compete with) we might as well give German Rugby the kiss of death.

Don´t want to be overdramatic, but I might be blind to see any positives as of yet.

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Re: REC Playoff: Germany v Portugal 15th June 2019

Postby rey200 » Tue, 18 Jun 2019, 19:09

zapf321 wrote:It’s really nice to see the good wishes for the German rugby future , but I’m wondering, whether you guys have a real idea of the reality in German rugby. First of all, it’s a very, very small community that even cares about rugby. And this small community seems being divided in “traditionalists”, who want to keep everything going on as usual - developing the sport means keeping up the old values (not to be misunderstood, I like the rugby values and traditions), the idea that my old club is my family and if the rest of the people who are keen on sports don’t realize the great and honourable rugby sport, who cares, it’s their problem…. And there are others, who are trying to get this sport out of its niche by f.e. getting it into tv or live streams, by trying to play in bigger stadiums, by blaming the federation for not announcing matches in time….. If you had a look at the live stream of the relegation match f.e. it was a total mess.
Afterwards the guys who were complaining this mess were blamed by what I call the traditionalists, for “just making sallys” and for not enough thankfulness to the team and the organizers. Accusing them for “just not getting satisfied their personal needs” (= watching the match on TV/Live stream) and if they would have been really interested in rugby, they should have had to manage to go to the match and so on. So, in their opinion TV live coverage couldn’t be a real option, because it prevents from going to the pitch.
Yes, we had a bubble with the Wild boys and all those things around and that bubble exploded one and a half years ago. To be honest, daily reality is far away from any participation in a RWC. (In our small town, the first rugby club was founded 3 or 4 years ago. They’re developing slowly, but up to now constantly. But there’s still no response from the local press, matches aren’t still announced in the press and they’re playing far away from any public interest. A friend of mine, who’s knowing that I’m interested in rugby asked me during last spring twice to accompany him to one of the two last home games. We arranged two dates, with both times the same result: the match was postponed due to the opponents beeing not able to travel because of lack of players. Just to illustrate some aspects of the situation..)
To come back to the beginning. German rugby needs more players to develop from the bottom to the top, but that requires more public interest. But as long as great parts of German rugby community prefers fighting each other, there won’t be too many steps towards a better future.


May I ask where you come from? Might be a regional problem/situation as well, because the federal structure doesn't help if the sport isn't that widespread.
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Re: REC Playoff: Germany v Portugal 15th June 2019

Postby Zhenya_Zima » Wed, 19 Jun 2019, 23:05

victorsra wrote:
Zhenya_Zima wrote:It's hard to imagine a Union with more potential imploding (and being failed, too) in a more spectacular manner in a quicker time than this particular incarnation of the DRV.
You can beat Romania. You can be in the running for a RWC place (fortuitously, admittedly), you can bang on the door of European club rugby (still a disgusting decision), and be right there screaming for Core Status (and a leg in Munich) for the Sevens, but hey, why wouldn't you to revert to having pissing contests up a wall between Heidelberg and Hannover? (I guess all the cameras were covering that somewhere. Again.) Damn shame Germany, please don't now go full-on Kazakhstan/Moldova on us. Nevertheless, welcome back Lobos, here's to your showing at youth transferring to REC. It makes us all stronger.

Easy to imagine. It wont take much time to see Brazil having the same fate, unless we really change the course of our (now unstainable) development... Some countries are trying to find shortcuts to grow while realy tackling long term issues.


Hmmm.... I get where your concerns come from but not your assessment of magnitude.

Brazil have never beaten France.
Brazil are not a market the 6N would bend over backward for.
Brazil have never had a club qualify for European competition.
Brazil have never got within touching distance of the Men's Sevens Circuit.
Brazil have never hosted a tournament with the Oktoberfest 7s manifest.

Brazilian failure would be South American Germany, but it would be worldwide Kazakhstan/Moldova.
But the comment was about German rugby's trajectory, not Brazil's, so it's quite moot anyway.

The only way in which they are equal is John Inverdale's legendary disgust for both. Sadly.
They would be the next biggest potential likely loss right now, though, at least at genuine T2. Who know what shit plays out with the PI/Japan!?

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Re: REC Playoff: Germany v Portugal 15th June 2019

Postby victorsra » Thu, 20 Jun 2019, 00:07

Brazilian failure would be South American Germany, but it would be worldwide Kazakhstan/Moldova.

????
Are you serious? Do you really follow rugby? Brazil has just almost beaten both Spain and Romania, in the last 4 years defeated twice Canada, once USA, once Portugal, once Argentina XV in Buenos Aires, once Georgia XV in Tblisi (none of them in the 1930s, all of them with a majority of Brazilian-born players), put 35k people to watch its own scrum demolish the Maori All Blacks and you are really comparing Brazil to Moldova/Kazakhstan? Great judgement yours.

BTW, there isn't a South American Club Championship, but there are plans for a South American Superleague of franchises, with Brazil planning 2. I have doubts about it, but also comparable to Heidelbeg's achievement. And the Olympic tournament had decent crowds (not worse than RWC7 2013 ;) ), although sevens was never a focus of Brazilian (men's) rugby, in spite of what people believe.

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