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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Tue, 11 Feb 2020, 15:32

victorsra wrote:And you do know FIFA's council, for exemple, doesn't have power of the game rules? It is the International Board. The should must be in the hands of an independent body... perhaps composed only by the 6 continental unions. Not the council. The council is about politics.


F***ing hell, honestly I really had no idea about the International Board in soccer. That's shocking, that even in soccer Great Britain has as many votes as everyone else regarding rule changes :shock:

Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Tue, 11 Feb 2020, 17:16

So it is realy important IMO that the Continental Unions have councils with 1 country 1 vote. While in the WR Council I stand by what I suggested, but maybe increasing continental unions power.

If we count 15s and 7s, I believe a maximum of 1/3 of the nations are realy involved in intercontinental matches, and only because 7s has a 2nd division. And this shouldn't change because for amateur nations intercontinental 15-a-side is not the logical path. Therefore, what realy matters for most countries is how their Continental Unions work and their power to fight for the continents interests in WR as a block, an unity.
Last edited by victorsra on Tue, 11 Feb 2020, 17:28, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Tue, 11 Feb 2020, 17:21

Chester-Donnelly wrote:I think World Rugby should rethink its continental unions. Is that the best way to organise tournaments? Many tournaments span continents. What chance is there of Asia having any kind of coordinated commercial competition, covering so many time zones? It would make much more sense to have three regional unions (Americas, EMEA, Asia Pacific) and then for there to be sub-regional unions within those unions (e.g. Europe, north Africa, west Asia, west Africa, Eastern and Southern Africa). With tournaments for the stronger tier 2 teams organised at regional level, like ARC and Pacific Nations Cup. Rugby in Asia quite rightly seems focused on the Asia Pacific region.
As north African and Middle Eastern teams develop, they should have the opportunity to play in European tournaments. There should still be an African Nations Cup, maybe every other year, with subregional tournaments in the years between, such as the Victoria Cup. How about a Mediterranean Cup?


I completely agree with you, Chester, and I think it's already happening. Europe changed to a regionalized format below ENC division 1 some time ago, Asia has done something similar, and now we can see regional tournaments popping up in Africa with the revived Victoria Cup, the Elgon Cup and WARS (West Africa).

It's a shame the Gold Cup had to go, however. We had three continents - the Americas, Europe and Africa - with their own 6-team first divisions, and needed only merge the Asian Top 3 with the Pacific Islands to get a 4th in that region. My idea was to then have the four winners play off in an annual Confederations Cup-like tournament, perhaps as a replacement for the Nations Cup (which has been drawing abysmal crowds).

But with the Gold Cup having fallen apart, and the flashy new African championships being nothing more than a protracted World Cup-qualifying tournament (some of the teams are already out), things are not looking so rosy anymore. Nothing to stop the North Africans arranging tests with European nations, btw, or mini-tournaments if they can manage it.

The fact their Tri Nations appears to have been abandoned suggests they're really not that interested, however. We know the Mahgrebi national teams are mostly France-based. Still, it ought to be possible for them to get a test or two against incoming second tier teams during the AIs, since they're in the vicinity; one of the Pacific Islands or North American teams, perhaps.

Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Tue, 11 Feb 2020, 18:32

Edgar, there are some within Algeria that are interested. I can tell from their high quality website. I just feel like north Africa and west Asia are slightly neglected regions because they are not in Europe and they are very far from the epicenter of their respective continents, being South Africa and Japan. I think UAE and Algeria should at least be offered the opportunity to play in the REIC, or in another regional tournament. They might not want to, but they should be offered the opportunity. They are both potential growth markets.

Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Thu, 27 Feb 2020, 22:15

The draw for the pool stage is on the 30th of November this year. From then on will we be able to start writing in depth about the regional processes for qualification.

Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Fri, 28 Feb 2020, 14:39

RugbyLiebe wrote:
victorsra wrote:And you do know FIFA's council, for exemple, doesn't have power of the game rules? It is the International Board. The should must be in the hands of an independent body... perhaps composed only by the 6 continental unions. Not the council. The council is about politics.


F***ing hell, honestly I really had no idea about the International Board in soccer. That's shocking, that even in soccer Great Britain has as many votes as everyone else regarding rule changes :shock:



It's funny that what is basically just a sop to the British ages ago has evolved into a reasonable independent decision making body that's structure favours not tinkering with the rules. You need FIFA plus two British nations to change a rule, so we get pretty stable rules with much fewer changed on a whim or in reaction to a big match.

Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Mon, 08 Jun 2020, 09:56

https://www.rugbyworldcup.com/2023/qualifiers

Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Mon, 08 Jun 2020, 09:58

Nothing too surprising but see how they say "qualified by" without clarity on qualifying tournaments in the press release, then mention in the website only 2022 editions? Probably everything is still up in the air due to COVID. I wouldn't like to see some teams with 2 home games and others with 3...

Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Mon, 08 Jun 2020, 10:06

Armchair Fan wrote:Nothing too surprising but see how they say "qualified by" without clarity on qualifying tournaments in the press release, then mention in the website only 2022 editions? Probably everything is still up in the air due to COVID. I wouldn't like to see some teams with 2 home games and others with 3...


I expect we will see a busy time at the back end of next year with some regionals playing catch up from this year.

Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Mon, 08 Jun 2020, 10:07

World Rugby seem to know geography of each union very well :

- Georgia, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Turkey, Israel and Cyprus on Asian map as well as Sakhaline from Russia...
- Iceland on Americas map...

Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Mon, 08 Jun 2020, 10:11

It looks like it’s more simpler than the last World Cup qualifying process but I’m not surprised. Easier qualified path for the Samoa and Tonga but probably a bit on fair for the Asian nations

Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Mon, 08 Jun 2020, 10:42

Thesjhughes wrote:It looks like it’s more simpler than the last World Cup qualifying process but I’m not surprised. Easier qualified path for the Samoa and Tonga but probably a bit on fair for the Asian nations


I think it's fair. It's not easy for Hong Kong to qualify, but it is also not easy for Canada, Romania, Russia, Spain, Belgium or Portugal to qualify. It is basically 2 from those 6.

I would think USA, Uruguay, Georgia, Tonga and Samoa will probably qualify.
Namibia could be upset by a very French Algeria team.

I don't see there being any other contenders.

Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Mon, 08 Jun 2020, 10:48

It's a simple qualifying process, easy to remember
The Europe Cup 2022 will be very interesting. Well, as all the other qualifying games

Loohr wrote:World Rugby seem to know geography of each union very well :

- Georgia, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Turkey, Israel and Cyprus on Asian map as well as Sakhaline from Russia...
- Iceland on Americas map...

It's a minor mistake but it's incredible that they repeat it year by year. I suppose no one of the countries involved has ever protested

Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Mon, 08 Jun 2020, 10:57

Apparently all the European nations in the Conferences are out from the World Cup, and they have had not the chance to be promoted this year due to the pandemic.
Am I wrong?
And will Rugby Europe study a dedicated path to give also them an hypothetical chance?

Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Mon, 08 Jun 2020, 14:45

Three things:

- Once more WR lost the opportunity with Asian rugby. The could have created an Asia-Pacific Cup to simplify the Qualy process there. Instead of giving 1 place for the winner of Samoa/Tonga and putting the loser to play the winner of Asia, why not organize a simple Samoa, Tonga, Hong Kong, Korea tournament????? Much more simple for everyone, much fairer with Asia;

- They didn't clarified if the Americas spots will come from the Americas Rugby Championship. I guess Canada is trying to keep a USA/Canada spot, which would be so ridiculous as Uruguay was the best of the Americas in the RWC 2019 (not counting Argentina);

- They didn't clarified if it will be 2021+2022 in Europe;

https://www.world.rugby/news/570193
Image
Last edited by victorsra on Mon, 08 Jun 2020, 16:29, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Mon, 08 Jun 2020, 15:48

If we read the press release literally, also the Asian teams from 2nd division downward appear already out; because they have no more chance to qualify for the Asia Championship 2021. So also good rugby nations like Sri Lanka, Philippines, Singapore and Kazakhstan would be immediately cut off.
The same could be said for the American teams outside ARC and ARCh. They have no more chance to qualify for the ARC 2022 and so to take part to the RWCQ.
In Europe between the apparently already eliminated teams, in the Conferences, there are nations like Sweden, Czech Rep and Moldova.

Anyway the World Rugby press release ends with the line "Final details of the regional competition formats and dates will be announced in due course"; this could mean that there's still room for special continental paths to involve all the nations

Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Mon, 08 Jun 2020, 15:59

World Rugby website was modified to say it will be 2021 AND 2022 REC...

Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Mon, 08 Jun 2020, 16:03

And they erased references to ARC. Amazing.

Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Mon, 08 Jun 2020, 16:41

Absolute amateur hour by WR, who would have guessed?

Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Mon, 08 Jun 2020, 16:55

What is realy annoying is how much they lack vision about Asia. it would give a much bigger sense of a proper competition, market-conscious, if they had Samoa, Tonga, Hong Kong and Korea* facing each other instead of this obsession with difficult-to-understand obscure playoffs.

*coming from a 1st phase against Malaysia, Phillippines, PNG, etc....

Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Mon, 08 Jun 2020, 17:27

World Rugby cannot possibly exclude its full members from RWC Qualifiers,
so teams from lower divisions (like RE Trophy, Conference) in Europe, Asia etc will participate in the RWCQ, there is no other way.
WR just forgot to mention it in today's FIRA-AER-esque press release.

Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Mon, 08 Jun 2020, 17:31

But Europe teams already have a chance to reach REC through promotion and are therefore part of RWCQ, with or without playoffs. The problem in America is the lack of promotion and relegation as it was impossible to declare a RWC qualifier a closed-shop tournament like ARC as it is right now.

Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Mon, 08 Jun 2020, 17:53

Armchair Fan wrote:But Europe teams already have a chance to reach REC through promotion and are therefore part of RWCQ, with or without playoffs. The problem in America is the lack of promotion and relegation as it was impossible to declare a RWC qualifier a closed-shop tournament like ARC as it is right now.

Not anymore. ARC will introduce promotion/relegation playoffs now. Since its launch it was planned to happen in season 5.

I guess this is just a fault in WR communication. Probably in Europe and the Americas there will be a playoff for the champions of the lower division to give them a chance to go to the Repechage (the same model used in the past Qualys by Europe). Remember the pandemics made 2020 a lost year for the Qualy, which means some sort of quicker qualy systems with playoffs will likely be seen next year for those divisions.

Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Mon, 08 Jun 2020, 17:56

But have they been officially confirmed, implemented and are they all down to the last team in NACRA/Sudamérica Rugby system in time to qualify for 2023?

Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Mon, 08 Jun 2020, 18:00

Yes: https://rugbyamericasnorth.com/rugby-am ... ut-region/
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