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Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby Armchair Fan » Tue, 02 Mar 2021, 14:31

Natal wrote:Astonishing. For all the lip-service WR pays to developing emerging (and wealthy) markets like Germany (https://www.world.rugby/news/564996), they've kicked them and most of Europe out of World Cup contention with the sweep of a pen. To call it embarrassing would be a gross understatement.

It's not the ideal outcome, but let's be honest, Germany destroyed its chances alone.

With Rugby Europe Trophy unable to resume they can't count on it and levels below for RWC qualifiers. We already saw what happened when Poland and Ukraine tried to play.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby FLIDTA RISXVA » Tue, 02 Mar 2021, 15:56

Has anybody asked Beaumont & Co for explanation re Europe?
In other regions there will be full qualifiers and only Europe was buggered

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby Armchair Fan » Tue, 02 Mar 2021, 16:17

Will there be full qualifiers everywhere? I don't think it's the case in America and let's see what happens in Asia...

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby dwpeate » Tue, 02 Mar 2021, 18:00

I think Asia will just be HKG, KOR and MAS

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby victorsra » Wed, 03 Mar 2021, 00:29

Armchair Fan wrote:Will there be full qualifiers everywhere? I don't think it's the case in America and let's see what happens in Asia...

Africa will have a full qualy. It is the continent with more countries involved.

Oceania too. In the RWC website it is clear Oceania Cup will be part of it. The loser of Samoa vs Tonga faces the Oceania Cup champions and the winner faces the Asian champions for the Asia-Pacific spot.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby Working Class Rugger » Wed, 03 Mar 2021, 00:33

victorsra wrote:It is indeed impossible to see T1s out of the RWC, but something like a simple playoff woudn't kill them.

It would be cool if 32 teams could be involved in a RWC Qualy main phase, qualifying 24 for the RWC. For exemple, during the 2025 B&I Lions window. Of course, in 2025, Home Nations and the Southern nation that faces them (I guess Australia) would have nothing nothing to fear about missing Lions Tour players. The same way, a team like South Africa could simply field a development squad and have other matches at the same moment if the want.

Exemple:
A: FRA, ITA, GEO, BEL
B: ENG, SCO, RUS, POR
C: IRE, WAL, SPA, ROM
D: NZL, JAP, TON, HKG
E: AUS, FIJ, SAM, KOR
F: SAF, NAM, KEN, ZIM
G: ARG, CAN, CHL, COL
H: USA, URU, BRA, PAR

Best 2 of each group = RWC.

Playoffs in 2026:

In July, 4ths vs 8 teams from Regional Qualifiers, keeping regionalization. Exemple:

BEL vs RET1 - NED
POR vs RET2 - SWI
ROM vs RET3 - GER
HKG vs Oceania 1 - PNG
KOR vs Asia 1 - MAY
ZIM vs Africa 1 - UGA
COL vs North America 1 - BER
PAR vs South America 1- PER

In November, 3rds vs July winners, by Ranking - 8 spots in the RWC. Exemple:
GEO vs ZIM
RUS vs KOR
SPA vs BEL
TON vs PAR
SAM vs COL
KEN vs ROM
CHL vs HKG
BRA vs POR

This model would have many thrashing results, like Samoa vs Colombia, indeed. But, in the Qualy it is ok to happen (it already happens, like Samoa/Tonga vs Oceania Cup champions, PNG/TAH/COOK....). It is part of a development path. Nobody will care if this happens in a Qualy, provided player welfare is not at risk. Teams like Paraguay and Colombia will be professional, the bigger question lies over Korea, Kenya, Zimbabwe.... the injury concern is always related to amateurs vs pros, not pros vs pros.


I'd love the model above, but it is unlikely to happen.

A conservative model could simply have TRC and 6N serving as qualy, with like one or two bottom teams of each having to face a Qualy playoff. Let's say Italy vs REC 2, Wales vs REC 3. Pumas vs ARC 3. Australia vs Oceania 3. Something like this would be an improvement.

With the draw only in 2026, all pots would be determined by the Ranking anyway.


I actually think the 32 team qualification format above would be the perfect model for the Nations Championship. Which then could and should be used as the qualification pathway. Expand the RWC to 24 teams. Top 12 seeds can remain as is in order to appease T1 nations. I know people may hate this but whatever gets it over the line. Open 12 spots to qualify. The 8 teams that don't qualify could enter some kind of play off system against teams that win/runner-up in their region competitions for place in the next Nations Championship cycle.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby Pro(p) Kicker » Wed, 03 Mar 2021, 05:37

It's crazy how messed up the Americas qualifiers are; the proposal to use the ARC was dumb because it eliminated a bunch of teams right off the bat but the current format is pretty horrible as well. I think a few more South American teams have a chance but all RAN teams besides the US and Canada are eliminated without playing a game. It's to bad as the lack of chance to play in world cup qualifiers is pretty much the exact opposite of what you want to do if you are trying to grow the sport. Hopefully in 2027 the format will be improved to be more beneficial to smaller rugby nations..

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby thatrugbyguy » Wed, 03 Mar 2021, 10:31

I put a proposal in one of the older threads that solved this. The Americas would be split into three divisions of six, the Americas Rugby Cup (ARC), Americas Rugby Challenge (ARCh), and the Americas Rugby Trophy (ART). Top two teams from the ARC qualify for the world cup directly, the third ranked team in the ARC along with the winner and runner up of the ARC, and the winner of the ART playoff against each other for a place in the Repechage tournament.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby snapper37 » Thu, 04 Mar 2021, 04:34

thatrugbyguy wrote:I put a proposal in one of the older threads that solved this. The Americas would be split into three divisions of six, the Americas Rugby Cup (ARC), Americas Rugby Challenge (ARCh), and the Americas Rugby Trophy (ART). Top two teams from the ARC qualify for the world cup directly, the third ranked team in the ARC along with the winner and runner up of the ARC, and the winner of the ART playoff against each other for a place in the Repechage tournament.



Thats a goofy idea, the 4-6 placed teams in the Cup division would be better then the winner and runner up of each of the other two divisions but under your model they would miss out on trying for the repechage tourney.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby thatrugbyguy » Thu, 04 Mar 2021, 05:58

Then win in the first place.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby Pro(p) Kicker » Thu, 04 Mar 2021, 07:53

thatrugbyguy wrote:I put a proposal in one of the older threads that solved this. The Americas would be split into three divisions of six, the Americas Rugby Cup (ARC), Americas Rugby Challenge (ARCh), and the Americas Rugby Trophy (ART). Top two teams from the ARC qualify for the world cup directly, the third ranked team in the ARC along with the winner and runner up of the ARC, and the winner of the ART playoff against each other for a place in the Repechage tournament.


Or we could just go back to a similar format that was used in any of the past qualifying tournaments in the last 20 years. I don't know why we suddenly decided this time we'd screw all the small nations out of matches. Obviously one of Canada or the USA can't be all but guaranteed a spot anymore but there's no reason to change the format to something even more convoluted. In your format you might as well just play the ARC because there's no team that's below ARC level that will challenge in that match for the repechage place. However those team should still get qualifying matches even though they have no chance of actually making it. It's also another reason I've always hated the automatic qualification from the past world cup. Yes the T1s won't fail in qualifying but T2's getting guaranteed high quality matches against T1's can do nothing but help them.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby Canalina » Thu, 04 Mar 2021, 08:07

Maybe you've already pointed it out but we don't know if the REC Trophy teams are already and totally out of the qualification. The euro qualifications will be based on the sum of REC 2021 and REC 2022 and the winner of the Trophy 2021 (if it will be played) will take part to the REC 2022. Theoretically, with an awesome 2022 tournament they could take the general third place. It's very unlikely, but from a mathematical point of view the Trophy teams appear to be still into the qualifiers.
Anyway, we are already in March, there's still not a schedule for the RE minor categories, the women RWC has been postponed, all the french and italian minor championships for this season have been cancelled and the epidemic seems promising a new rampage in the next weeks, so I suppose that the cancellation of the Trophy also for this season is unfrtunately a solid hypothesis

About the fact that the minor nations in all the continents except Africa are kicked out from the qualies without playing, I agree that it's not a thing we can like, but I don't remember to have read any complaint by the minor federations themselves. Maybe World Rugby and/or the continental confederations have taken this decision also because they know that the minor federations agree on not taking part on a qualifying path for them impossible to complete

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby vino_93 » Thu, 04 Mar 2021, 08:39

In a way, they took part to qualification. They didn't know they were playing, but the fact they didn't qualify for the main tournament in time is the answer (except in America where there's no pathway possible).

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby Canalina » Thu, 04 Mar 2021, 12:19

Total tickets price for all the games of every team

Image

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby Armchair Fan » Thu, 04 Mar 2021, 12:27

"Every team" :-P

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby amz » Thu, 04 Mar 2021, 13:06

Armchair Fan wrote:"Every team" :-P


:thumbup: :D

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby TheStroBro » Thu, 04 Mar 2021, 15:57

Pro(p) Kicker wrote:
thatrugbyguy wrote:I put a proposal in one of the older threads that solved this. The Americas would be split into three divisions of six, the Americas Rugby Cup (ARC), Americas Rugby Challenge (ARCh), and the Americas Rugby Trophy (ART). Top two teams from the ARC qualify for the world cup directly, the third ranked team in the ARC along with the winner and runner up of the ARC, and the winner of the ART playoff against each other for a place in the Repechage tournament.


Or we could just go back to a similar format that was used in any of the past qualifying tournaments in the last 20 years. I don't know why we suddenly decided this time we'd screw all the small nations out of matches. Obviously one of Canada or the USA can't be all but guaranteed a spot anymore but there's no reason to change the format to something even more convoluted. In your format you might as well just play the ARC because there's no team that's below ARC level that will challenge in that match for the repechage place. However those team should still get qualifying matches even though they have no chance of actually making it. It's also another reason I've always hated the automatic qualification from the past world cup. Yes the T1s won't fail in qualifying but T2's getting guaranteed high quality matches against T1's can do nothing but help them.



Eh, this is not soccer. The purpose of the ARC taking over as the qualification tournament for the Americas Region, one of the few with two continents in one region, (I know, some of you don't think so) was to align with the rest of World Rugby.

The REC is the qualifier competition for Europe. The Asian 5 Nations is a qualifier into the Repechage since those nations are ranked so low. The PNC is a qualifier for Oceania. The African Gold Cup is the qualifier for Africa.

Where it would get funky for Europe would be if a 6N team didn't qualify through Top 12 in previous tournament (which I abhor btw).

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby victorsra » Thu, 04 Mar 2021, 16:12

PNC is not the qualifier for Oceania. With Fiji already quaified, it is just a playoff between Samoa and Tonga. The loser faces the Oceania Cup champions (PNG, Cook, Solomons, Niue, etc) for the Asia-Pacific playoff spot.

Asia doesn't have a 5N for a long time. It is a 3N now.

It should be time for Asia-Oceania to have an unified competition, like the Americas did.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby Pro(p) Kicker » Thu, 04 Mar 2021, 18:14

TheStroBro wrote:
Pro(p) Kicker wrote:
thatrugbyguy wrote:I put a proposal in one of the older threads that solved this. The Americas would be split into three divisions of six, the Americas Rugby Cup (ARC), Americas Rugby Challenge (ARCh), and the Americas Rugby Trophy (ART). Top two teams from the ARC qualify for the world cup directly, the third ranked team in the ARC along with the winner and runner up of the ARC, and the winner of the ART playoff against each other for a place in the Repechage tournament.


Or we could just go back to a similar format that was used in any of the past qualifying tournaments in the last 20 years. I don't know why we suddenly decided this time we'd screw all the small nations out of matches. Obviously one of Canada or the USA can't be all but guaranteed a spot anymore but there's no reason to change the format to something even more convoluted. In your format you might as well just play the ARC because there's no team that's below ARC level that will challenge in that match for the repechage place. However those team should still get qualifying matches even though they have no chance of actually making it. It's also another reason I've always hated the automatic qualification from the past world cup. Yes the T1s won't fail in qualifying but T2's getting guaranteed high quality matches against T1's can do nothing but help them.



Eh, this is not soccer. The purpose of the ARC taking over as the qualification tournament for the Americas Region, one of the few with two continents in one region, (I know, some of you don't think so) was to align with the rest of World Rugby.

The REC is the qualifier competition for Europe. The Asian 5 Nations is a qualifier into the Repechage since those nations are ranked so low. The PNC is a qualifier for Oceania. The African Gold Cup is the qualifier for Africa.

Where it would get funky for Europe would be if a 6N team didn't qualify through Top 12 in previous tournament (which I abhor btw).


I mean that's not really True. Every team had a chance up until this qualifying cycle in Europe. Go look at the qualifiers for 2019 and you'll see it started with the RE Conference 2. It then progressed it's way up to the next level and next level before finishing with the Rugby Europe Championship and then Germany played Portugal who had won RET for the Repechage place. Every team had a chance to qualify for the repechage. They couldn't qualify for it automatically but they still had a chance.

Your right it's not soccer and it's not a sport that's popular in almost every country in the world but if your goal is to grow the game outside of the already existent Rugby countries you have to give them WCQ games. People start caring when their country makes a run in a big competition. If a team like Poland or the Netherlands went on a run and had a chance people would start watching more. It could also spark a lot of interest in the game. I know World Rugby likes to keep the established countries safe but you got to at least give the others a chance. Also look at any of the other confederations past qualifying cycles they also had at least most of their member nations participate in qualifying.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby snapper37 » Fri, 05 Mar 2021, 02:10

Canalina wrote:Total tickets price for all the games of every team

Image



the Japan pack will have the most entertaining games.
V England
v Argentina
V Uruguay (most likely)
V Samoa (most likely)

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby thatrugbyguy » Fri, 05 Mar 2021, 02:30

The font in that price listing is terrible.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby Tomster7uk » Sat, 13 Mar 2021, 16:01

How did Samoa and Tonga come to playing each other in the Oceania play off? Who else could have gained that berth? Name of nation(s).

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby victorsra » Sat, 13 Mar 2021, 16:41

Tomster7uk wrote:How did Samoa and Tonga come to playing each other in the Oceania play off? Who else could have gained that berth? Name of nation(s).


New Zealand, Australia and Fiji are already qualified, because they finished Top 12 in the RWC 2019. So, only Samoa and Tonga were left in the Qualy...

The other Oceania nations are too weak, so they play apart in the so called "Oceania Cup". The winner of the Oceania Cup will face the loser of Samoa-Tonga.

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby Canalina » Mon, 15 Mar 2021, 08:53

We have the dates for the Oceania Cup/RWC qualifiers: 15-27 june in Port Moresby
https://www.facebook.com/rugbytahitiinf ... 8525964057

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Re: Rugby World Cup 2023 Qualifying

Postby victorsra » Mon, 15 Mar 2021, 16:24

Whaaaat?

So, Tahiti was re-admited as World Rugby?

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