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Rugby Europe International Championships 2019-2020

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Re: Rugby Europe International Championships 2019-2020

Postby bonzosarmy » Thu, 25 Jun 2020, 17:22

victorsra wrote:What exactly is payed by Rugby Europe in those beach rugby, snow rugby and club rugby 7s tournaments? Because if they are putting money on this is a waste of resources that could be used helping to build that Continental Shield or making the Grand Prix 7s better.


to my knowledge nothing or very little, afaik nearly everything is paid by the russian federation.

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Re: Rugby Europe International Championships 2019-2020

Postby ficcp » Thu, 25 Jun 2020, 20:26


Victor : EUSA gathers 290 universities from 43 countries, Rugby 7 is one of 23 sports of the NGO.

In the last Rugby 7 tournament (Milan 2017) were only 10 universities from 7 countries. The potential to grow is Huge !!

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Re: Rugby Europe International Championships 2019-2020

Postby Canalina » Mon, 06 Jul 2020, 18:43

REC results history, from 2000; the ranking of this edition of REC and RET could be modified if the competitions resumed before the end of the year
It must be read from right to left; in yellow the year edition, in pink/red the number of competing nations

Image

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Re: Rugby Europe International Championships 2019-2020

Postby victorsra » Mon, 06 Jul 2020, 19:41

Would be great to see a Ranking since with FIRA Trophy combined.
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Re: Rugby Europe International Championships 2019-2020

Postby Canalina » Mon, 06 Jul 2020, 20:24

I gave a look to the FIRA trophies on wikipedia and for the biennium 1997/98 the french page reports Italy as general winner
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trophée_européen_FIRA_de_rugby_à_XV_1997-1998

This appeared strange, because the other pages (english, italian) explained that in those years the FIRA Trophy was not awarded because of the world cup qualifying. Finally it resulted that the french page in fact reports the RWC qualifying as they were the FIRA Trophy.
Anyway in those qualifying Italy defeated Georgia 31-14, in L'Aquila.
So the historic duels between Italy and Georgia are at least three (in that occasion Italy was marked as "A", but being it part of the World Cup qualifiers I think that it had all the chrisms of an important test match); Italy won them all, even if always playing at home (L'Aquila, Asti, Firenze)

EDIT: but on stats guru I see now that Italy A and Georgia played several other games, I didn't remember that

Georgia lost 3 21 -18 0 0 1 0 v Italy A Bucharest 15 Jun 2010
Georgia lost 7 8 -1 1 1 0 0 v Italy A Palmanova 20 Nov 2009
Georgia won 25 3 +22 3 2 2 0 v Italy A Bucharest 20 Jun 2008
Georgia won 22 20 +2 3 2 1 0 v Italy A Bucharest 16 Jun 2007
Georgia lost 14 31 -17 1 0 2 1 v Italy A L'Aquila 11 Apr 1998

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Re: Rugby Europe International Championships 2019-2020

Postby victorsra » Mon, 06 Jul 2020, 20:45

Brazilian Rugby News: www.portaldorugby.com.br

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Re: Rugby Europe International Championships 2019-2020

Postby FLIDTA RISXVA » Tue, 07 Jul 2020, 05:42

EXCELLENT WORK

JUST deal correctly with initial season 2000 when
Morocco and Tunisia played for last time, and 'hors tournoi' by the way

Trust this >> http://www.rugbyarchive.net/compseasons/7?Stagione=2000
This page was updated on May 15, 2020, 12:33:46 PM


If North Africans are not included in your BIG TABLE -- and this is OK, then
for 2000 Spain should be 2nd, Georgia 3rd, Netherlands 4th, Portugal 5th and so on

:::

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Re: Rugby Europe International Championships 2019-2020

Postby Canalina » Tue, 07 Jul 2020, 11:06

FIRA Trophy + ENC + REC

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

The medal tally should be

France 25 5 -
Romania 10 16 12
Georgia 9 4 1
Italy 1 9 9
URSS/Russia 1 6 5
Portugal 1 2 1
Spain 1 1 8
Germany - 2 4
Morocco - - 3
Czechoslovakia - - 2
Poland - - 1

Total* 48 45 46

* in one edition the first place was shared between France, Romania and Russia; and in one of the first editions I "awarded" two third places ex aequo because the tournament was split in two pools with no third place final

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Re: Rugby Europe International Championships 2019-2020

Postby Canalina » Tue, 07 Jul 2020, 17:37

The 70s were a period of crisis for Italian rugby, judging by the FIRA Trophy results; again struggles in the 80s with several defeats by URSS (almost all by little margin, it has to be said), than the arise in the 90s

1968: for the first time Italy renounces to take part to the FIRA Trophy so we are relegated in second category
1971: after having quickly gained the promotion, Italy loses 6-8 with Morocco in Naples and it's relegation again
1972: home draws with Spain and Portugal plus loss in Spain, Italy remains in second category
1973: win by a one only point margin at home versus Yugoslavia, loss in Portugal; no promotion again
1974: draw in Rovigo with Czechoslovakia, but finally it's promotion in the top category
1977: Morocco-Italia 10-9 in Casablanca, Romania-Italia 69-0
1978: Italy loses in Warsaw and Madrid
1979: loses in Rome with Soviet Union, plus a 0-44 in Bucharest
1980/81: two losses with Soviet Union, but Italy conquers anyway the final podium
1983: Italy-France 6-6 in Rovigo
1986/87: two losses with Soviet Union, a thin home victory with Portugal, the podium is missed
1988/89: two losses with Soviet Union, two losses with Romania
1990: an other little margin loss with URSS
1994: Italy defeats France in Rovigo but at the last game the azzurri lose in Bucharest and miss their first title ever
1996: (22 March 1997) Italy defeats France 40-32 in Grenoble and conquers the first (and so far last) European title

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Re: Rugby Europe International Championships 2019-2020

Postby STMKY » Tue, 07 Jul 2020, 17:48

Does Italy have an understanding that getting into 6 Nations is a consequence of the collapse of the USSR? If not for 1991, then it would be the Soviet Union that would be in 6 Nations in a few years.

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Re: Rugby Europe International Championships 2019-2020

Postby victorsra » Tue, 07 Jul 2020, 18:35

STMKY wrote:Does Italy have an understanding that getting into 6 Nations is a consequence of the collapse of the USSR? If not for 1991, then it would be the Soviet Union that would be in 6 Nations in a few years.

Or we'd have a 7 or 8 Nations... more likely...
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Re: Rugby Europe International Championships 2019-2020

Postby Canalina » Tue, 07 Jul 2020, 20:16

STMKY wrote:Does Italy have an understanding that getting into 6 Nations is a consequence of the collapse of the USSR? If not for 1991, then it would be the Soviet Union that would be in 6 Nations in a few years.

Could be, but it's not sure. In the eighties the USSR defeated several times Italy (often by little margin) but they also lost several times with Romania. The three teams were almost at the same level, with Italy maybe a bit under. Then Italy grew in the 90s. We can't know how the things would have gone with Soviet Union still undivided

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Re: Rugby Europe International Championships 2019-2020

Postby victorsra » Tue, 07 Jul 2020, 21:03

Would rugby be that strong in Georgia now if still part of USSR?
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Re: Rugby Europe International Championships 2019-2020

Postby Canalina » Wed, 08 Jul 2020, 06:16

I think the google sheet page I posted above (with the Fira/Enc/Rec history results) was "locked", now it should be available

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

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Re: Rugby Europe International Championships 2019-2020

Postby FLIDTA RISXVA » Wed, 08 Jul 2020, 06:33

* in one edition the first place was shared
between France, Romania and Russia;

SORRY but this is BLOODY RUBBISH

TRUST this >> http://www.rugbyarchive.net/compsoverview/39

http://www.rugbyarchive.net/compseasons ... =1989%2F90
The triple tie for the first place was resolved by head-to-head results

FIRA of OLD always had strict TIE BREAKING rules
of which ROTHMANS had no knowledge whatsoever

Hence, those naive British scribes applied
dinosaur 5N title-sharing concept to FIRA

It is pity that with advent of www too many sites started
re-writing rugby history without checking original sources
to boost readership:

Of course, SHARING, epitomizing rugby's unique, Victorian spirit
seems more attractive story than simple, ugly, logical TIE-BREAK

:::

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Re: Rugby Europe International Championships 2019-2020

Postby Canalina » Wed, 08 Jul 2020, 06:50

Are you completely certain about that?
Italian, english and spanish versions of wikipedia report an ex aequo victory; the french wiki version and the italian manual by Pacitti/Volpe say the winner was just France.
I remember that we already discussed about that edition but I don't remember the outcomes; if you are certain that France was the only victory I change the data on the google sheet and on the "medal tally"

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Re: Rugby Europe International Championships 2019-2020

Postby FLIDTA RISXVA » Wed, 08 Jul 2020, 09:32

I have been already chief rugby writer for Lelo daily then, for 5 years

Wiki people of today rely on T1 sources which
were & still are totally incompetent re T2 matters

There was no hoot about shared title in SOV media = papers | TV, back in 1990

No word among rugby folks -- players, coaches, refs --
people who regularly liaised with each other

In addition, your own Pacitti/Volpe support outright champ version

They should be trusted -- like me, they were contemporaries:
we went thru it all

And there are FIRA | FIRA AER annuals of those years after all ...

Pls, also take note of my earlier post --
Official ENC 2000 had 5 teams: 1 ROM, 2 SPN, 3 GEO, 4 NED, 5 POR

I've spent hours and days to fight&right WWW wrongs by means of
rugbyarchive.net -- many thanks to your compatriot Fabrizio :!:

:::

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Re: Rugby Europe International Championships 2019-2020

Postby thatrugbyguy » Wed, 08 Jul 2020, 11:09

STMKY wrote:Does Italy have an understanding that getting into 6 Nations is a consequence of the collapse of the USSR? If not for 1991, then it would be the Soviet Union that would be in 6 Nations in a few years.


I've not head this before. How far behind Romania and Italy were USSR/Russia in the late 1980's / early 1990's?

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Re: Rugby Europe International Championships 2019-2020

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 08 Jul 2020, 11:28

thatrugbyguy wrote:
STMKY wrote:Does Italy have an understanding that getting into 6 Nations is a consequence of the collapse of the USSR? If not for 1991, then it would be the Soviet Union that would be in 6 Nations in a few years.


I've not head this before. How far behind Romania and Italy were USSR/Russia in the late 1980's / early 1990's?



In the FIRA tournaments 1984/85, 1985–87, 1987–89 and 1989/90 the USSR always finished second behind France and ahead of Romania. In 1986 They even beat France XV 15:9 away. 1984/85 most likely Romania was third due to a tie-breaker between those three nations.

All tournaments are linked here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rugby_Eur ... mpionships
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Rugby Europe International Championships 2019-2020

Postby Canalina » Wed, 08 Jul 2020, 11:52

Participations in Fira/Enc/Rec (calculated by me so not official)

43: Spain, Romania
42: Germany
40: Belgium
39: Poland
38: Czechoslovakia/Czech Rep.
37: Netherlands
36: Portugal
31: France, URSS/Russia
29: Italy, Sweden
27: Morocco
23: Switzerland, Denmark
22: Bulgaria
21: Luxembourg
19: Andorra
18: Yugolsavia, Hungary, Slovenia, Austria, Latvia, Lithuania
17: Croatia, Ukraine, Georgia, Serbia & Montenegro/Serbia, Israel
16: Moldova
15: Norway, Bosnia Herzegovina
14: Tunisia
13: Malta
12: Finland
9: Cyprus
8: Slovakia
7: Monaco
6: Turkey
5: Estonia, Azerbaijan
4: Montenegro, Greece, Armenia
1: Belarus
0: Iceland, San Marino, Liechtenstein, Albania, Macedonia

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Re: Rugby Europe International Championships 2019-2020

Postby FLIDTA RISXVA » Wed, 08 Jul 2020, 12:04

My kind and wise advice would be to use this
http://www.rugbyarchive.net/compsoverview/39

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984%E2%8 ... IRA_Trophy is OK
but collated table on page which leads to it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rugby_Eur ... mpionships
has gross errors for 1983–84 and 1984–85

:::

1984/85 most likely Romania was third due to a tie-breaker between those three nations

EXACTLY: by points difference in head-to-head games: SOV +7, ITA =0, ROM -7

ROM finished 4th overall -- very first time ever outside "Top 3"

:::

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Re: Rugby Europe International Championships 2019-2020

Postby Dcl » Fri, 10 Jul 2020, 10:55

Switzerland - Netherlands ends in a draw after discussions between both unions. Meaning Netherlands are the champions in the Trophy and get a shot at promotion to the Championship.

https://www.rugby.nl/blog/oranje-heren- ... ope-trophy

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Re: Rugby Europe International Championships 2019-2020

Postby Grzegorz B. » Fri, 10 Jul 2020, 12:09

Poland - Ukraine - October 10.
Lithuania - Poland - cancelled (0:0).

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Re: Rugby Europe International Championships 2019-2020

Postby Canalina » Fri, 10 Jul 2020, 12:45


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Re: Rugby Europe International Championships 2019-2020

Postby Loohr » Fri, 10 Jul 2020, 12:46

Dcl wrote:Switzerland - Netherlands ends in a draw after discussions between both unions. Meaning Netherlands are the champions in the Trophy and get a shot at promotion to the Championship.

https://www.rugby.nl/blog/oranje-heren- ... ope-trophy


So it mean Switzerland is now eliminated from the "joke pathway to RWC 2023". We have 23 (Full members) + 6 (not WR full members) nationals teams eliminated without a match since pathway announcement for Rugby Europe.

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