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Japan Rugby

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby 4N » Wed, 24 Jun 2020, 23:06

There’s a reason he didn’t mention TL crowds (which were great by club rugby standards in any country, not just Japan). It’s either because it doesn’t suit his narrative that mass interest in rugby in Japan ended when the RWC did - or he doesn’t follow Japanese rugby closely enough to know, which would call the whole analysis into question. Japan’s league structure could use tweaks and they will probably be made once the future of Super Rugby is decided. There was just a story a couple of days ago that Australia could consider picking certain players based in Japan if their clubs are playing in some sort of tournament with Australian teams. I’d say the future of Japanese club rugby is a lot brighter than what Maes tries to portray. The Guardian article from February is much closer to the mark.

With Japanese interests having recently purchased New Zealand’s leading player agency, and the future of the Sanzaar competitions uncertain, Japan is going to continue to loom ever larger in the southern hemisphere rugby consciousness.

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby jservuk » Thu, 25 Jun 2020, 10:02

4N wrote:There’s a reason he didn’t mention TL crowds (which were great by club rugby standards in any country, not just Japan). It’s either because it doesn’t suit his narrative that mass interest in rugby in Japan ended when the RWC did - or he doesn’t follow Japanese rugby closely enough to know, which would call the whole analysis into question. Japan’s league structure could use tweaks and they will probably be made once the future of Super Rugby is decided. There was just a story a couple of days ago that Australia could consider picking certain players based in Japan if their clubs are playing in some sort of tournament with Australian teams. I’d say the future of Japanese club rugby is a lot brighter than what Maes tries to portray. The Guardian article from February is much closer to the mark.

With Japanese interests having recently purchased New Zealand’s leading player agency, and the future of the Sanzaar competitions uncertain, Japan is going to continue to loom ever larger in the southern hemisphere rugby consciousness.


I must admit I was surprised about the views Maes expressed in the article as other news from Japan has been positive. In fact, I would suggest that the positivity has been underplayed. For example the mainstream media in UK, which has a favourable attitude towards Rugby, say little about the big crowds in Japan since RWC 2019.

Perhaps he is thinking that they haven't made enough of the opportunity, and have fallen far short of what a marketeer would have expected them to achieve given the favourable conditions after RWC 2019. I can see this being viewed as a cardinal sin by Maes.

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Thu, 25 Jun 2020, 10:23

The hope was that Japan would set up a new professional league, but instead they are refreshing their company league, so that is a bit disappointing. A bit conservative.

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby theDarky » Fri, 26 Jun 2020, 13:05

Chester-Donnelly wrote:The hope was that Japan would set up a new professional league, but instead they are refreshing their company league, so that is a bit disappointing. A bit conservative.

they want to build on the existing structures ...

Rugby has a similar evolution in Japan than football knew 30 years ago.

They gonna sign some full time contracts with the players, change the names and the logos of the clubs ( in football for example Yumori Verdy became the the Tokyo Verdy, Toyota Motors became the Nagoya Grampus) and begun to use big stadiums and companies started to open their shares.

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Fri, 26 Jun 2020, 14:56

theDarky wrote:
Chester-Donnelly wrote:The hope was that Japan would set up a new professional league, but instead they are refreshing their company league, so that is a bit disappointing. A bit conservative.

they want to build on the existing structures ...

Rugby has a similar evolution in Japan than football knew 30 years ago.

They gonna sign some full time contracts with the players, change the names and the logos of the clubs ( in football for example Yumori Verdy became the the Tokyo Verdy, Toyota Motors became the Nagoya Grampus) and begun to use big stadiums and companies started to open their shares.


OK, fair enough. Evolution is probably a good way to go about things. I just thought Japan would be launching this new fully professional league to rival Super Rugby, Top 14, Premiership etc. but that's not what's happening. From the Top League I have watched there is an incredible mixture of ability levels on the same field. Dan Carter and amateurs on the same field, and big crowds watching really weird rugby and seemingly loving it.

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby victorsra » Fri, 26 Jun 2020, 18:07

But the project of the new league is over? They received bids recently....
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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby 4N » Sat, 27 Jun 2020, 04:39

The new league seems to be on the back burner for now. Indications over the last month or so are that they are looking at setting something up with Australian and NZ Super Rugby franchises and TL clubs. Like I said Dave Rennie just mentioned this week that the Wallabies could consider picking players based in Japan if they are playing in a tournament with Australian teams. And the new RA chairman has mentioned Japanese involvement a few times.

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby Working Class Rugger » Sat, 27 Jun 2020, 07:10

4N wrote:The new league seems to be on the back burner for now. Indications over the last month or so are that they are looking at setting something up with Australian and NZ Super Rugby franchises and TL clubs. Like I said Dave Rennie just mentioned this week that the Wallabies could consider picking players based in Japan if they are playing in a tournament with Australian teams. And the new RA chairman has mentioned Japanese involvement a few times.


My perfect solution would be a TT/Pacific based league of 12 teams plus the Top League playing in a 24 team Cup competition.

Or alternatively two 16 team Cup competitions with 8 from each of the two leagues above and a second tier with the likes of Korea, Hong Kong etc entering as well.

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby Hinato » Sat, 27 Jun 2020, 11:07

- La JRFU a clôturé hier la demande d'admission de la New League qui remplacera la Top League à l'automne 2021. Les 16 équipes de TL ont rempli la demande en raison d'un assouplissement. La JRFU annoncera le statut de la candidature début de semaine prochaine. Grosse annonce sur la future league lundi.

- L'international japonais Ryoto Nakamura vient d'obtenir un contrat professionnel avec Suntory Sungoliath.

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby victorsra » Sat, 27 Jun 2020, 14:27

If all Top League teams bidded, this means we can expect some sort of Top League with city names?
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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby iul » Sat, 27 Jun 2020, 14:31

I don't know why they have to make a new league. Just ban having company names in the name of the team, switch them to city names and that's it.

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby Hinato » Sat, 27 Jun 2020, 15:01

Toutes les équipes de Top League ont posé leur candidature. Cela ne veut pas dire que nous aurons une division à 16 franchises.

Il y a des conditions différentes (selon la 1ère, 2ème ou 3ème division à venir). Toutes ne seront pas au même niveau malgré l'assouplissement des conditions. Certaines équipes seront 100% professionnelles dès 2021 (Kobe, Panasonic, Munakata, Kamaishi voir même NTT-Docomo Red Hurricanes, NTT Shining Arcs et Canon Eagles). Les autres ont pour obligation de se diriger vers le professionnalisme aussi mais auront un peu plus de temps pour se préparer.

La condition minimum, c'est ville, nom de celle-ci et stade pour chaque franchise et l'obligation de s'occuper de la billetterie (donc recettes pour les équipes). Je rajoute à cela que nous aurons sans doute aussi des candidatures d'autres équipes de Top Challenge League ainsi que de 3ème division (Chugoku Red Regulions c'est officiel et on parle de plus en plus de Tokyo Gas).
Last edited by Hinato on Sat, 27 Jun 2020, 15:14, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby 4N » Sat, 27 Jun 2020, 15:10

Working Class Rugger wrote:
4N wrote:The new league seems to be on the back burner for now. Indications over the last month or so are that they are looking at setting something up with Australian and NZ Super Rugby franchises and TL clubs. Like I said Dave Rennie just mentioned this week that the Wallabies could consider picking players based in Japan if they are playing in a tournament with Australian teams. And the new RA chairman has mentioned Japanese involvement a few times.


My perfect solution would be a TT/Pacific based league of 12 teams plus the Top League playing in a 24 team Cup competition.

Or alternatively two 16 team Cup competitions with 8 from each of the two leagues above and a second tier with the likes of Korea, Hong Kong etc entering as well.


I think they will probably go with 2-4 Japanese teams to start. They will need that market with SA out of the picture and a joint finals format with their top clubs might be the easiest way to involve them quickly. And crowds did seem to be genuinely good in Japan after the RWC so the timing is right to add them IMO.

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby Hinato » Sat, 27 Jun 2020, 15:17

4N wrote:
Working Class Rugger wrote:
4N wrote:The new league seems to be on the back burner for now. Indications over the last month or so are that they are looking at setting something up with Australian and NZ Super Rugby franchises and TL clubs. Like I said Dave Rennie just mentioned this week that the Wallabies could consider picking players based in Japan if they are playing in a tournament with Australian teams. And the new RA chairman has mentioned Japanese involvement a few times.


My perfect solution would be a TT/Pacific based league of 12 teams plus the Top League playing in a 24 team Cup competition.

Or alternatively two 16 team Cup competitions with 8 from each of the two leagues above and a second tier with the likes of Korea, Hong Kong etc entering as well.


I think they will probably go with 2-4 Japanese teams to start. They will need that market with SA out of the picture and a joint finals format with their top clubs might be the easiest way to involve them quickly. And crowds did seem to be genuinely good in Japan after the RWC so the timing is right to add them IMO.


Les japonais vont se reconcentrer sur leur nouvelle ligue. Donc cela ne sert strictement à rien d'imaginer des équipes japonaises aller jouer avec les équipes australiennes.

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby 4N » Sat, 27 Jun 2020, 15:33

The new RA chairman seems pretty keen to involve Japanese clubs and the Force in competition that replaces the current Super Rugby format. We will see what happens.

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby Hinato » Sat, 27 Jun 2020, 15:43

4N wrote:The new RA chairman seems pretty keen to involve Japanese clubs and the Force in competition that replaces the current Super Rugby format. We will see what happens.


Il peut être désireux autant qu'il le souhaite, les japonais veulent monter leur Pro League pour rivaliser avec la Premiership et le Top 14 dans l'hémisphère nord. Ils ne regardent plus vers l'hémisphère sud (mis à part le président des Sunwolves parce qu'il veut sauver sa franchise). C'est terminé.

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby theDarky » Sat, 27 Jun 2020, 16:05

Hinato wrote:
4N wrote:The new RA chairman seems pretty keen to involve Japanese clubs and the Force in competition that replaces the current Super Rugby format. We will see what happens.


Il peut être désireux autant qu'il le souhaite, les japonais veulent monter leur Pro League pour rivaliser avec la Premiership et le Top 14 dans l'hémisphère nord. Ils ne regardent plus vers l'hémisphère sud (mis à part le président des Sunwolves parce qu'il veut sauver sa franchise). C'est terminé.


peux tu essayer de repondre à nos amis en anglais ? si chacun utilise sa langue nous n'allons pas y arriver ... :)

merci

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby 4N » Sat, 27 Jun 2020, 16:13

As long as they are looking at joining the Rugby Championship they are going to have links with SANZAR, particularly Australia and NZ which they also share a similar timezone with. I very much doubt that multiple people in RA would be publicly speaking about potential involvement of Japanese clubs if there weren’t some sort of mutual interest but again we will see.

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby victorsra » Sat, 27 Jun 2020, 16:41

theDarky wrote:
Hinato wrote:
4N wrote:The new RA chairman seems pretty keen to involve Japanese clubs and the Force in competition that replaces the current Super Rugby format. We will see what happens.


Il peut être désireux autant qu'il le souhaite, les japonais veulent monter leur Pro League pour rivaliser avec la Premiership et le Top 14 dans l'hémisphère nord. Ils ne regardent plus vers l'hémisphère sud (mis à part le président des Sunwolves parce qu'il veut sauver sa franchise). C'est terminé.


peux tu essayer de repondre à nos amis en anglais ? si chacun utilise sa langue nous n'allons pas y arriver ... :)

merci


A JRFU deixaria os Sunwolves jogarem o Super Rugby com os australianos e neozelandês?
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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby theDarky » Sat, 27 Jun 2020, 17:23

victorsra wrote:
theDarky wrote:
Hinato wrote:
4N wrote:The new RA chairman seems pretty keen to involve Japanese clubs and the Force in competition that replaces the current Super Rugby format. We will see what happens.


Il peut être désireux autant qu'il le souhaite, les japonais veulent monter leur Pro League pour rivaliser avec la Premiership et le Top 14 dans l'hémisphère nord. Ils ne regardent plus vers l'hémisphère sud (mis à part le président des Sunwolves parce qu'il veut sauver sa franchise). C'est terminé.


peux tu essayer de repondre à nos amis en anglais ? si chacun utilise sa langue nous n'allons pas y arriver ... :)

merci


A JRFU deixaria os Sunwolves jogarem o Super Rugby com os australianos e neozelandês?


a good example here ^^

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby iul » Sat, 27 Jun 2020, 18:15

Hinato wrote:Toutes les équipes de Top League ont posé leur candidature. Cela ne veut pas dire que nous aurons une division à 16 franchises.

Il y a des conditions différentes (selon la 1ère, 2ème ou 3ème division à venir). Toutes ne seront pas au même niveau malgré l'assouplissement des conditions. Certaines équipes seront 100% professionnelles dès 2021 (Kobe, Panasonic, Munakata, Kamaishi voir même NTT-Docomo Red Hurricanes, NTT Shining Arcs et Canon Eagles). Les autres ont pour obligation de se diriger vers le professionnalisme aussi mais auront un peu plus de temps pour se préparer.

La condition minimum, c'est ville, nom de celle-ci et stade pour chaque franchise et l'obligation de s'occuper de la billetterie (donc recettes pour les équipes). Je rajoute à cela que nous aurons sans doute aussi des candidatures d'autres équipes de Top Challenge League ainsi que de 3ème division (Chugoku Red Regulions c'est officiel et on parle de plus en plus de Tokyo Gas).

https://translate.google.com

Dude, seriously, auto translate your posts and post them here inEnglish so that we don't each have to translate them individually or completely ignore them because we can't be bothered to.

Here's the translation of your post


Hinato wrote: All of the Top League teams have applied. This does not mean that we will have a division with 16 franchises.

There are different conditions (depending on the 1st, 2nd or 3rd division to come). Not all will be at the same level despite the relaxation of conditions. Some teams will be 100% professional from 2021 (Kobe, Panasonic, Munakata, Kamaishi or even NTT-Docomo Red Hurricanes, NTT Shining Arcs and Canon Eagles). The others have an obligation to move towards professionalism also but will have a little more time to prepare .

The minimum condition is city, name of it and stadium for each franchise and the obligation to take care of the ticket office (therefore receipts for the teams). I add to that that we will undoubtedly also have candidacies of other teams of Top Challenge League as well as of 3rd division (Chugoku Red Regulions it is official and one speaks more and more about Tokyo Gas).



...it does a pretty good job

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby victorsra » Sat, 27 Jun 2020, 18:28

:lol: I think he reads in French translating the forum automaticaly.

Anyway, would JRFU accept the Sunwolves playing against australians and kiwis while there is a professional Japanese league?
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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby Hinato » Sat, 27 Jun 2020, 18:50

L'international japonais Ryoto Nakamura passe professionnel à 29 ans
https://www.asierugby.com/post/l-intern ... %A0-29-ans

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby victorsra » Sat, 27 Jun 2020, 19:16

If JRFU wants to associate the company teams with the RWC venues, let's try to guess where the major Top League would be based?

- Tokyo: Suntory Sungoliath and Toshiba Brave Lupus
- Kumagaya: Panasonic Wild Knights
- Shizuoka; Yamaha Jubilo
- Kobe: Kobelco Steelers
- Osaka: NTT Red Hurricanes
- Toyota/Nagoya: Toyota Verblitz
- Fukuoka: Sanix Blues
- Yokohama: Mitsubishi Dynaboars
- Kamaishi: Kamaishi Seawaves

Who would move to Oita? Or Kumamoto? Or Sapporo?

NTT Shining Arcs, NEC Green Rockets and Kubota Spears are from Chiba; Hino Red Dolphins, Ricoh Black Rams, Canon Eagles are from Tokyo... maybe they could be main candidates to be based in those cities....
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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby Working Class Rugger » Sat, 27 Jun 2020, 22:22

Hinato wrote:
4N wrote:The new RA chairman seems pretty keen to involve Japanese clubs and the Force in competition that replaces the current Super Rugby format. We will see what happens.


Il peut être désireux autant qu'il le souhaite, les japonais veulent monter leur Pro League pour rivaliser avec la Premiership et le Top 14 dans l'hémisphère nord. Ils ne regardent plus vers l'hémisphère sud (mis à part le président des Sunwolves parce qu'il veut sauver sa franchise). C'est terminé.


I'm not talking as a combined league. Just an added Cup competition. From an Australian perspective it's a shame to see suggestions of Japan not being interested. Our franchises were furious when the Sunwolves were cut.

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