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Japan Rugby

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby victorsra » Sat, 04 Jul 2020, 16:18

theDarky wrote:@Victor

you have to realize that the asian hockey league is very unstable.

I don't think the JFRU is looking for such instability.

In Korea, you can watch the matches on SBS Sport (the public sports channel - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SBS_Sports)

the crowds are very small ...

the club Daemyung Sangmu is military so you can't call it a professional team

this league was more or less created to help develop local talent for ice hockey as it is an important winter game at the Olympic Games for the countries of North Asia

in 2018, 8 players were "foreigners" in the Korean team

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_hocke ... outh_Korea

@hinato

I know that Hyundai Glovis was created with the hope of joining the Japanese system (a bit like the perpignan dragons in rugby league)

But, and you know it, the Koreans and the Japanese hate each other (the French / German / English or Argentinian / Brazilian rivalries are nothing compared to this one)

Don't you remember what's happening to the Asian baseball series? the Koreans were more competitive than expected and the Japanese did not want to replay

I think that if GRR disappears, the path to professionalism for Koreans will be more difficult.


Yes, but Rugby is much more popular than Ice Hockey in Japan. This means the league will be sustainable because of the Japanese teams. Japan doenst't need Korea in rugby. The precedent is the fact that it is indeed possible for the Koreans to think about joining forces with Japan (starting with Hyundai in 3rd division). Big difference.
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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby Working Class Rugger » Sun, 05 Jul 2020, 02:53

victorsra wrote:
theDarky wrote:@Victor

you have to realize that the asian hockey league is very unstable.

I don't think the JFRU is looking for such instability.

In Korea, you can watch the matches on SBS Sport (the public sports channel - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SBS_Sports)

the crowds are very small ...

the club Daemyung Sangmu is military so you can't call it a professional team

this league was more or less created to help develop local talent for ice hockey as it is an important winter game at the Olympic Games for the countries of North Asia

in 2018, 8 players were "foreigners" in the Korean team

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_hocke ... outh_Korea

@hinato

I know that Hyundai Glovis was created with the hope of joining the Japanese system (a bit like the perpignan dragons in rugby league)

But, and you know it, the Koreans and the Japanese hate each other (the French / German / English or Argentinian / Brazilian rivalries are nothing compared to this one)

Don't you remember what's happening to the Asian baseball series? the Koreans were more competitive than expected and the Japanese did not want to replay

I think that if GRR disappears, the path to professionalism for Koreans will be more difficult.


Yes, but Rugby is much more popular than Ice Hockey in Japan. This means the league will be sustainable because of the Japanese teams. Japan doenst't need Korea in rugby. The precedent is the fact that it is indeed possible for the Koreans to think about joining forces with Japan (starting with Hyundai in 3rd division). Big difference.


Ultimately if the Japanese structure see's value in including them then it's entirely up to them. Personally I hope they do make the jump to at the very least the corporate league. To start.

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby Hinato » Sun, 05 Jul 2020, 09:40

Akita Northern Bullets candidate to join the future Japanese New League?

While the future Japanese New League will start in January 2022, the Japanese press announces that many corporate and community franchises are candidates to integrate it in turn from 2023. Among the potential teams, Akita Northern Bullets is certainly one more likely and in more ways than one.

Founded in 2004, the Japanese franchise is the heir to Akita City Hall Rugby Club (founded in 1958). With Kamaishi Seawaves, they are also the only two community teams in the elite of Japanese rugby and also the only two representatives of the Tohoku region.

This oval desert north of Tokyo makes the oppositions between Akita Northern Bullets and Kamaishi Seawaves called the Tohoku derby. The Japanese franchise therefore has a key geographic position for the popularity of rugby in this region.

The team, which is currently playing in the Top East A League (Japanese 3rd division), already has the conditions required to join the future New League. Its only weak point is its stadium, the Akigin Stadium (5,000 seats), which does not meet the requirements of the two professional divisions (15,000 seats minimum). However this is more than enough to integrate and play in the 3rd national division to come, that "corpo / amateur", where professionalism will not be compulsory for the franchises entered.

Akita Northern Bullets has the best attendance of all the teams of the Japanese 3rd division with a regular average in recent seasons of more than 1,000 spectators. The reds and blacks also recorded a record on October 8, 2017 during a match against Clean Fighters Yamanashi with nearly 3,000 fans in the stadium.

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby Tobar » Sun, 05 Jul 2020, 17:17

Hinato wrote:The NZRU fought very hard to succeed (one year contract instead of two). And it is not until 2022 that the Japanese will really send the sauce. New Zealand rugby is too fragile to withstand the coming Japanese Pro League in the medium term.


Which is why they should be proactive and form their own rules and partnership with the Japanese league. They know that they will lose lots of domestic players so it’s better to set clear guidelines on how players can go overseas.

They also need to determine how to become involved with the league in some capacity in order to secure their future. Super Rugby in its current form isn’t working but an Australasian competition with Champions Cup style games against the Japanese league could be an in. The money will be there on the Japanese side and the talent will be there on the NZ side. Better to be a part of it rather than being on the outside looking in.

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby 4N » Sun, 05 Jul 2020, 17:31

Agree with all of that. Australia and NZ should basically set a “Giteau rule” (with a lower cap requirement) specifically for Japan and then work to get Japanese clubs involved in a tournament with them.

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby sk 88 » Sun, 05 Jul 2020, 17:56

One things to remember is that greater demand for rugby in Japan will also increase the value of the All Blacks brand/tv rights. Super Rugby Aotearoa has been an excellent competition, there is no chaff and its like normal Super Rugby without all the shit games where they trash off a rubbish Australian or Saffa team. There has got to be better value in selling that competition with lower travelling costs and fewer mouths to feed than the frankenstein's monster that Super Rugby has become. People want to watch the best and that is NZ rugby.

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby Tobar » Sun, 05 Jul 2020, 18:52

sk 88 wrote:One things to remember is that greater demand for rugby in Japan will also increase the value of the All Blacks brand/tv rights. Super Rugby Aotearoa has been an excellent competition, there is no chaff and its like normal Super Rugby without all the shit games where they trash off a rubbish Australian or Saffa team. There has got to be better value in selling that competition with lower travelling costs and fewer mouths to feed than the frankenstein's monster that Super Rugby has become. People want to watch the best and that is NZ rugby.


I never watched Super Rugby but have found SRA to be very entertaining. Part of the issue I’ve had with Super Rugby is that I couldn’t keep track of all the teams from all different countries and felt that it was really missing that spice. SRA has been a lot more clear and has had a lot of that.

NZRU should also make sure to get Japan involved with TRC. This will help them become much better (in addition to their league) and NZ benefits from having players in their league as well.

The other thing to consider is that while the union won’t have as much control over the players, they will still be able to play within the SH test window which is much more preferable than playing in France. The season is shorter and they will be fully available after June for test matches. This is of course dependent on the schedule (which I’m not fully aware of) but see that the expected start date is January 2022 so I assume that it is.

And let’s be honest - if you can create more high quality playing opportunities for NZ players then that is a win. 5 teams limits them to 5 starter roles for any position. Allowing a few of the backups to play a season or two in Japan could be great for them.

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby Tobar » Sun, 05 Jul 2020, 18:53

I would like to add that I hope a lot of Pacific Islanders flock to this league so that they can finally have a league that allows them to remain close to home (and eligible for test matches). If the money is there then surely you will see lots of players choosing to play for their home country, assuming that Japan isn’t as restrictive.

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby Working Class Rugger » Mon, 06 Jul 2020, 01:09

Tobar wrote:
sk 88 wrote:One things to remember is that greater demand for rugby in Japan will also increase the value of the All Blacks brand/tv rights. Super Rugby Aotearoa has been an excellent competition, there is no chaff and its like normal Super Rugby without all the shit games where they trash off a rubbish Australian or Saffa team. There has got to be better value in selling that competition with lower travelling costs and fewer mouths to feed than the frankenstein's monster that Super Rugby has become. People want to watch the best and that is NZ rugby.


I never watched Super Rugby but have found SRA to be very entertaining. Part of the issue I’ve had with Super Rugby is that I couldn’t keep track of all the teams from all different countries and felt that it was really missing that spice. SRA has been a lot more clear and has had a lot of that.

NZRU should also make sure to get Japan involved with TRC. This will help them become much better (in addition to their league) and NZ benefits from having players in their league as well.

The other thing to consider is that while the union won’t have as much control over the players, they will still be able to play within the SH test window which is much more preferable than playing in France. The season is shorter and they will be fully available after June for test matches. This is of course dependent on the schedule (which I’m not fully aware of) but see that the expected start date is January 2022 so I assume that it is.

And let’s be honest - if you can create more high quality playing opportunities for NZ players then that is a win. 5 teams limits them to 5 starter roles for any position. Allowing a few of the backups to play a season or two in Japan could be great for them.


Why would Japan want to engage with them? They voted to remove the Sunwolves and have shown little interest in the past in forming partnerships with Japanese clubs. The Australian franchises on the other hand sent teams to play against Top League teams during the June window and the Rebels have a development deal with Kinetsu.

But I do have a thought about SRA/Au and how they could work with the new Japanese Pro League. Dual contracting. Run a Tran-Tasman/Pacific league from September through November and then sign deals with Japanese clubs for players to go to Japan for their season.

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby Rebus » Mon, 06 Jul 2020, 04:42

Can see Japanese Rugby becoming a contender to the French league and attracting the better players from around the world. I hope for the sake of the Japanese national team there is a cap put in place for overseas players so the national team continues to develop.
It has been seen in sport across the globe that overseas players can improve the league , but if there is a saturation of foreign talent it dilutes the quality of the national team

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby Tobar » Mon, 06 Jul 2020, 13:11

Working Class Rugger wrote:
Tobar wrote:
sk 88 wrote:One things to remember is that greater demand for rugby in Japan will also increase the value of the All Blacks brand/tv rights. Super Rugby Aotearoa has been an excellent competition, there is no chaff and its like normal Super Rugby without all the shit games where they trash off a rubbish Australian or Saffa team. There has got to be better value in selling that competition with lower travelling costs and fewer mouths to feed than the frankenstein's monster that Super Rugby has become. People want to watch the best and that is NZ rugby.


I never watched Super Rugby but have found SRA to be very entertaining. Part of the issue I’ve had with Super Rugby is that I couldn’t keep track of all the teams from all different countries and felt that it was really missing that spice. SRA has been a lot more clear and has had a lot of that.

NZRU should also make sure to get Japan involved with TRC. This will help them become much better (in addition to their league) and NZ benefits from having players in their league as well.

The other thing to consider is that while the union won’t have as much control over the players, they will still be able to play within the SH test window which is much more preferable than playing in France. The season is shorter and they will be fully available after June for test matches. This is of course dependent on the schedule (which I’m not fully aware of) but see that the expected start date is January 2022 so I assume that it is.

And let’s be honest - if you can create more high quality playing opportunities for NZ players then that is a win. 5 teams limits them to 5 starter roles for any position. Allowing a few of the backups to play a season or two in Japan could be great for them.


Why would Japan want to engage with them? They voted to remove the Sunwolves and have shown little interest in the past in forming partnerships with Japanese clubs. The Australian franchises on the other hand sent teams to play against Top League teams during the June window and the Rebels have a development deal with Kinetsu.

But I do have a thought about SRA/Au and how they could work with the new Japanese Pro League. Dual contracting. Run a Tran-Tasman/Pacific league from September through November and then sign deals with Japanese clubs for players to go to Japan for their season.


From what I understand it was mostly South Africa who had an issue with Japan because they voted against them for the World Cup. And they weren’t kicked out of Super Rugby they just had to pay a lot of money to stay involved and didn’t see the value. But yes, simply because NZ would hypothetically be interested doesn’t mean Japan will do whatever they can to get them involved. But I think they’re pragmatic enough to realize that this would be a great benefit to them and may lead to their entry into the rugby championship which would be a great victory.

The All Blacks are a big brand. If they can get them to come over at least once a year then that could give the JRFU a lot more cash and help grow interest in the sport.

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby Tobar » Mon, 06 Jul 2020, 13:13

Rebus wrote:Can see Japanese Rugby becoming a contender to the French league and attracting the better players from around the world. I hope for the sake of the Japanese national team there is a cap put in place for overseas players so the national team continues to develop.
It has been seen in sport across the globe that overseas players can improve the league , but if there is a saturation of foreign talent it dilutes the quality of the national team


If there are 24 teams then this will not be a problem. This isn’t even a problem in France like everyone thinks it is. The more teams you have, the more foreign players you can have join.

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby thatrugbyguy » Tue, 07 Jul 2020, 02:16

24 professional clubs means it will be virtually impossible for Australia and New Zealand to keep its talent home based. Whether we like it or not both nations are going to have to allow overseas players to play for the Wallabies and All Blacks without restriction. This 'sabbatical' nonsense will never work.

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby Working Class Rugger » Tue, 07 Jul 2020, 03:28

thatrugbyguy wrote:24 professional clubs means it will be virtually impossible for Australia and New Zealand to keep its talent home based. Whether we like it or not both nations are going to have to allow overseas players to play for the Wallabies and All Blacks without restriction. This 'sabbatical' nonsense will never work.


Two options here. Move our season to a late winter/spring season and work toward a dual contracting system or transitions SR into a primarily U23s competition with squads of 30 and each player being paid $100k a season with the express intent on developing talent to be signed overseas.

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby Rebus » Tue, 07 Jul 2020, 04:47

A dual contracting system may see an overload on playing time. Why would Australia and NZ not just embrace this ?
SR is a broken product so try to end it as soon as possible. There seems to be an appetite for a Trans - Tasman league so push for that and try to encourage a Champions League style competition at the end of the season.
If NZ/Aus can try to make the best of what they have and encourage TV deals they can try to optimise the best of what they have.

If Japanese corporations are far wealthier than NZ/AUs clubs , dont try to fight it , see how they can work with it. Possibly the step above , possibly get Japan on board with the Championship .

One point I was thinking off was if Japan kicked off this league and a big concern is wealth attracting overseas players , would there be a push from the T1 nations to change the eligibilty laws again. If you have , say 20 clubs , each wih its own professional set up and possibly own academy , in the short term there may be a desire to get guys at the end of their career as marquee players , but long term it would be better to get younger players who become eligible for Japan on longer term deals.
Would T1 nations/ PI teams see a player drain which would force them to reconsider the eligibility rules

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby Working Class Rugger » Tue, 07 Jul 2020, 04:58

Rebus wrote:A dual contracting system may see an overload on playing time. Why would Australia and NZ not just embrace this ?
SR is a broken product so try to end it as soon as possible. There seems to be an appetite for a Trans - Tasman league so push for that and try to encourage a Champions League style competition at the end of the season.
If NZ/Aus can try to make the best of what they have and encourage TV deals they can try to optimise the best of what they have.

If Japanese corporations are far wealthier than NZ/AUs clubs , dont try to fight it , see how they can work with it. Possibly the step above , possibly get Japan on board with the Championship .

One point I was thinking off was if Japan kicked off this league and a big concern is wealth attracting overseas players , would there be a push from the T1 nations to change the eligibilty laws again. If you have , say 20 clubs , each wih its own professional set up and possibly own academy , in the short term there may be a desire to get guys at the end of their career as marquee players , but long term it would be better to get younger players who become eligible for Japan on longer term deals.
Would T1 nations/ PI teams see a player drain which would force them to reconsider the eligibility rules


That's why I suggested the second option. Contract players 18-23 with the express purpose of developing them via a TT competition to take up contracts overseas.

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby Rebus » Tue, 07 Jul 2020, 11:39

Apologies Working Class Rugger , I misunderstood. I thought it was to have a development program and have the players play in the Japanese league

Would the NZ public support what would become a development league ?

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby thatrugbyguy » Tue, 07 Jul 2020, 13:12

Working Class Rugger wrote:
Two options here. Move our season to a late winter/spring season and work toward a dual contracting system or transitions SR into a primarily U23s competition with squads of 30 and each player being paid $100k a season with the express intent on developing talent to be signed overseas.


I think no matter what proposal is put on the table AUS and NZ will eventually lose all their top talent overseas.

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby victorsra » Tue, 07 Jul 2020, 13:38

Not sure. The post-pandemics economy will probably make the transfer market colder... There will be Japan contracting more, but Europe probably less. Maybe Oceania won't be affected that much.
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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby Hinato » Tue, 07 Jul 2020, 14:01

Confirmation that the term of Greig Laidlaw's contract with NTT Shining Arcs is 2 years. The Scottish international will therefore be one of the foreign stars present for the launch of the Japanese Pro League in 2022.

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby Hinato » Tue, 07 Jul 2020, 14:04

victorsra wrote:Not sure. The post-pandemics economy will probably make the transfer market colder... There will be Japan contracting more, but Europe probably less. Maybe Oceania won't be affected that much.


On the contrary, Japan will really unfold on the transfer market with the launch of the Pro League. The Japanese have announced in recent days in the Japanese press: they want to sign the best foreign players in the world to have the best rugby union championship in the world.

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby victorsra » Tue, 07 Jul 2020, 14:32

And what about pandemics hard hit on the economy? https://www.bbc.com/news/business-52570721
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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby Hinato » Tue, 14 Jul 2020, 05:00

In a long interview yesterday, Keisuke Sawaki returned to many subjects. The Japanese technician, now head coach of Canon Eagles, spoke of the future of the Japanese franchise. The announced objective is that it must be 100% professional by the launch of the Pro League in January 2022.


Keisuke Sawaki was very clear about this: "If the league becomes professional, the team and the management must become professional." The Japanese technician wants to catch up on Kobelco Steelers and Panasonic Wild Knights, two franchises whose staff are largely professional and which will be 100% by 2022.


Canon Eagles is already preparing for the launch of the New League. The reds and blacks have signed in recent weeks the Japanese internationals Ryuta Yasui (Kobelco Steelers), Jumpei Ogura (Sunwolves) and Chihito Matsui (Suntory Sungoliath).


The team already has many professional players such as the Japanese internationals Fumiaki Tanaka and captain Yu Tamura, 1/4 of the finalists of the last rugby world cup in the country and who will form this season again the hinge of the reds and blacks .


The franchise has big ambitions for the future. Canon Eagles, in addition to its transition to professionalism by 2022, should be based in Machida (Tokyo) and evolve in the magnificent Machida GION Stadium (15,000 seats).


The team can count on its head coach who already has an impressive CV for a Japanese technician. Former player of Suntory Sungoliath (1998-2007) and Japanese international (8 caps), Keisuke Sawaki was the assistant to Eddie Jones at the Fuchu franchise (Tokyo) before succeeding him in 2012.


At the head of the Baby Blossoms in 2013, he allowed the rise of the Japanese U20 in the first world division. In 2016, he became manager of Suntory Sungoliath before becoming head coach of the Sunwolves during Super Rugby 2020, becoming in fact the first Japanese technician to lead a team in the famous competition of the southern hemisphere.

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby Hinato » Tue, 14 Jul 2020, 06:32

Japanese Pro League: Panasonic Wild Knights has unveiled its future installations!
https://www.asierugby.com/post/pro-leag ... tallations

The Japanese Pro League will be launched in January 2022. By then, franchises are preparing to shift to professionalism. This is the case of Panasonic Wild Knights, which has just unveiled its future installations.

These will be based in the Kumagaya Sports & Culture Park, located just a few hundred meters west of the Kumagaya Rugby Stadium (24,000 seats), the future stadium of the Japanese team. The facilities will be 30,000 square meters in size.

Construction will begin this month and will be completed next August. The total construction cost will be 3,490 million yen (about 28.7 million).

Panasonic has a 35-year lease with Saitama Prefecture and the prefecture association and plans to use it as its headquarters. The hotel can accommodate up to 300 people and is also available for general use.

These state-of-the-art facilities will include:

a rugby training ground

an administrative building

an indoor playground

an accommodation building

a restaurant

a club house

Panasonic Wild Knights will be 100% professional in its structure by January 2022, the date of the launch of the future Pro League. The Japanese franchise will have one of the most modern stadiums and facilities in the world for a rugby team. Kumagaya thinks big!

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby Hinato » Thu, 16 Jul 2020, 15:23

Japanese Pro League: NTT-Docomo Red Hurricanes aims for the 1st division from 2022

In the history of the Top League, NTT-Docomo Red Hurricanes has always been known as a bottom team, making the lift since its first historic climb in 2011 between the elite and the 2nd division, with two relegations in 2016 and 2018.

The best place for reds and blacks was thus a poor 11th place in the 2014/2015 season. This year, they were even only 15th (one win and five losses) before the championship was finally stopped due to the coronavirus pandemic.

But with the arrival of the Pro League, NTT-Docomo Red Hurricanes wants to become the big team of Osaka ahead of Kintetsu Liners and get professional. The ambitions of the Japanese franchise are also high: finish in the "top 8" of the last season of Top League and thus start in the 1st professional division of the future New League!

For this, NTT-Docomo Red Hurricanes carried out a monstrous recruitment. The South African Johan Ackermann (Gloucester) has become the new head coach, joined in his staff by his compatriots Rory Duncan (Worcester Warriors) and Neil de Bruin (Lions).

In terms of players, the workforce has considerably increased with the signatures of Franco Marais (Gloucester), Ruan Vermaak (Lions), Tyler Paul (Sharks), Welsh international Owen Williams (Gloucester), international Filipino Benjamin Saunders (Toyota Industries Shuttles), Tom Marshall (Gloucester) and of course the South African world champion Makazole Mapimpi (Sharks)!

As a reminder, the Pro League will start in January 2022 with two professional divisions and a 3rd corporate division. For the 25 known teams that will participate, their place will be decided according to two points: the criteria to evolve or not with the pros and their sports performance during the 2020/2021 season (January 2021-May 2021).

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