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Japan Rugby

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby Grayday88 » Tue, 11 Aug 2020, 11:12

This is the best proposal I have seen about The future of Super Rugby. Having domestic type tournaments followed by a European Cup style Super Rugby end to the season makes sense. I just wonder who attractive a Full Super Rugby AU season is to broadcasters

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Tue, 11 Aug 2020, 11:42

Grayday88 wrote:This is the best proposal I have seen about The future of Super Rugby. Having domestic type tournaments followed by a European Cup style Super Rugby end to the season makes sense. I just wonder who attractive a Full Super Rugby AU season is to broadcasters


I think it can be very attractive if they can include Fijian Latui, South China Tigers and Sunwolves or Asia-Pacific Dragons if either of those teams could be brought back to life.

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 11 Aug 2020, 11:51

Chester-Donnelly wrote:
Grayday88 wrote:This is the best proposal I have seen about The future of Super Rugby. Having domestic type tournaments followed by a European Cup style Super Rugby end to the season makes sense. I just wonder who attractive a Full Super Rugby AU season is to broadcasters


I think it can be very attractive if they can include Fijian Latui, South China Tigers and Sunwolves or Asia-Pacific Dragons if either of those teams could be brought back to life.


Do you honestly think, that any of these teams draw any significant audience at all? How did the Fijian Drua do attendance-wise? While the Sunwolves have proved that, they were never attractive for Australian broadcasters. And that's what we are talking about here.

Another point is: is the Japanese tv market interested in a competition with only one Japanese team in it?
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Tue, 11 Aug 2020, 12:34

RugbyLiebe wrote:
Chester-Donnelly wrote:
Grayday88 wrote:This is the best proposal I have seen about The future of Super Rugby. Having domestic type tournaments followed by a European Cup style Super Rugby end to the season makes sense. I just wonder who attractive a Full Super Rugby AU season is to broadcasters


I think it can be very attractive if they can include Fijian Latui, South China Tigers and Sunwolves or Asia-Pacific Dragons if either of those teams could be brought back to life.


Do you honestly think, that any of these teams draw any significant audience at all? How did the Fijian Drua do attendance-wise? While the Sunwolves have proved that, they were never attractive for Australian broadcasters. And that's what we are talking about here.

Another point is: is the Japanese tv market interested in a competition with only one Japanese team in it?


Fijian Drua is an important team for providing a pipeline of players for Fijian Latui, but I would never expect it to draw big crowds.
Rugby Aotearoa is the highest level of domestic rugby in the region and probably the world, whereas Super Rugby Australia can be the championship of the region, incorporating the vision of GRR but without the pop up teams of China Lions and Malaysia Valke and the unsustainable Samoan team. Fijian Latui is the backbone of the Flying Fijians. South China Tigers is the best Asian team outside of Japan. Sunwolves and Asia-Pacific Dragons are pretty good brands if an investor wants to take them on and join the biggest rugby championship in the Asia Pacific region.

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby victorsra » Tue, 11 Aug 2020, 13:33

With a new league in Japan, would JRFU allow the Sunwolves to play in Australia? It would be strange if they do.

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Tue, 11 Aug 2020, 13:42

victorsra wrote:With a new league in Japan, would JRFU allow the Sunwolves to play in Australia? It would be strange if they do.


I don't think they will. I think Sunwolves is dead. Fijian Latui and South China Tigers should play in Super Rugby Australia because they are the only teams worth saving from GRR. But other teams in the region could join. There are some professional standard Malaysian players, not many. Rugby is quite popular in Malaysia. There could be a market for rugby in Kuala Lumpur and Singapore. I think GRR went about it the wrong way. I think rugby needs to be built from the bottom up. The best thing Australia could do is to get Super Rugby Australia broadcasted free to view across the region to grow a fan base. Hopefully a South East Asian team will join eventually, once there is a market for that.

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 11 Aug 2020, 14:38

Chester-Donnelly wrote:
RugbyLiebe wrote:
Chester-Donnelly wrote:
Grayday88 wrote:This is the best proposal I have seen about The future of Super Rugby. Having domestic type tournaments followed by a European Cup style Super Rugby end to the season makes sense. I just wonder who attractive a Full Super Rugby AU season is to broadcasters


I think it can be very attractive if they can include Fijian Latui, South China Tigers and Sunwolves or Asia-Pacific Dragons if either of those teams could be brought back to life.


Do you honestly think, that any of these teams draw any significant audience at all? How did the Fijian Drua do attendance-wise? While the Sunwolves have proved that, they were never attractive for Australian broadcasters. And that's what we are talking about here.

Another point is: is the Japanese tv market interested in a competition with only one Japanese team in it?


Fijian Drua is an important team for providing a pipeline of players for Fijian Latui, but I would never expect it to draw big crowds.
Rugby Aotearoa is the highest level of domestic rugby in the region and probably the world, whereas Super Rugby Australia can be the championship of the region, incorporating the vision of GRR but without the pop up teams of China Lions and Malaysia Valke and the unsustainable Samoan team. Fijian Latui is the backbone of the Flying Fijians. South China Tigers is the best Asian team outside of Japan. Sunwolves and Asia-Pacific Dragons are pretty good brands if an investor wants to take them on and join the biggest rugby championship in the Asia Pacific region.


Everything you wrote is right - but it has nothing at all to do with a competition being attractive. And in pro sport being attractive is simply to attract large crowds and make money in the long run for the competition to grow further. A Fiji team lives from it being seen as exotic and taking a wild-guess showing how diverse the Commonwealth is. But apparently it does not lead to making more money. SC Tigers and AP Dragons can only be a factor if they are heavily subsidized (another way to make money), but as we've seen in the last years it drives away fans (sadly even the Sunwolves) in traditional markets which simply don't except non-traditional markets. And this way of thinking will stay until there are no more closed shops left (and I don't see this happening). In short: Australia only with Australian teams or it is bound to fail.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Tue, 11 Aug 2020, 14:56

Fijian Latui must be given a place in one of the Super Rugby competitions, or else Fiji will forever be a team to disappoint.

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 11 Aug 2020, 15:17

Chester-Donnelly wrote:Fijian Latui must be given a place in one of the Super Rugby competitions, or else Fiji will forever be a team to disappoint.


I agree.
But again, this is not the point. It won't make a competition more attractive, as sadly, Fiji brings next to nothing to the table what you need to make a competition more successful (*apart from their player base, but again sadly you don't need a team located in Fiji for that).
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Tue, 11 Aug 2020, 15:34

South China Tigers might need to drop down a level and continue what GRR started, getting a pro rugby championship going in South East Asia. 2 Hong Kong teams (Hong Kong Island, and Kowloon), Kuala Lumpur team, Singapore team, and build something from there.

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby Rebus » Tue, 11 Aug 2020, 17:10

Chester-Donnelly wrote:South China Tigers might need to drop down a level and continue what GRR started, getting a pro rugby championship going in South East Asia. 2 Hong Kong teams (Hong Kong Island, and Kowloon), Kuala Lumpur team, Singapore team, and build something from there.


A good idea in principle , but who is going to pay for this nor can I see a TV company wanting to broadcast this

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Tue, 11 Aug 2020, 18:03

Rebus wrote:
Chester-Donnelly wrote:South China Tigers might need to drop down a level and continue what GRR started, getting a pro rugby championship going in South East Asia. 2 Hong Kong teams (Hong Kong Island, and Kowloon), Kuala Lumpur team, Singapore team, and build something from there.


A good idea in principle , but who is going to pay for this nor can I see a TV company wanting to broadcast this


There have been, at various times, investors in each of these places willing to support professional rugby teams. Also, these teams will be largely the national teams of Hong Kong, Malaysia and Singapore so there could be some government support. If they could get sponsorship from an airline that flies between these locations that should be everything they need.

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby victorsra » Tue, 11 Aug 2020, 20:07

Three interesting scenarios:

- Japanese champions joining the "Super 8";
- Korean teams joining Japanese lower divisions;
- An Asian Cup (parallel to Super 8) between Japanese, Russian, HK, Malaysian clubs, for exemple. 8 clubs, single venue, for example. 4 Japanese (2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th of their league), 2 Russians (between Enisei, Krasny Yar, Novokuznetsk...), HK champions, Malaysian champions, following Super 8 steps. However , HK and Malaysian clubs can be thrashed by the Japanese, which means maybe special franchises are needed, like national teams.

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby victorsra » Tue, 11 Aug 2020, 20:36

One interesting possibility for countries like China-HK, Malasya, Singapore is to follow Canada's steps building an amateur/semi-pro league with like 4 regional representative sides.

Let's imagine a China-HK league with 4 teams (2 Hongkonger teams, let's say City and Kowloon, two Chinese teams, let's say Guangzhou, Shanghai). That would offer best players, even if amateur/semipro, a stronger 6-rounds+final competition, with the champions playing such Asian Cup against the Japanese and Russian professionals. That means basicaly a GRR-like calendar, cheaper, with local rivalries and concentration of talent. Same for a South-East Asia league and so on. Rugby doesn't need fully professional leagues if they aren't sustainable, but it can look at meaningful alternative to offer better competition for national team players amd top have nice events for domestic audience. They would still be smashed by the Japanese and Koreans, but it could be a kick off of something professional sustainable in the future.

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Tue, 11 Aug 2020, 20:53

victorsra wrote:One interesting possibility for countries like China-HK, Malasya, Singapore is to follow Canada's steps building an amateur/semi-pro league with like 4 regional representative sides.

Let's imagine a China-HK league with 4 teams (2 Hongkonger teams, let's say City and Kowloon, two Chinese teams, let's say Guangzhou, Shanghai). That would offer best players, even if amateur/semipro, a stronger 6-rounds+final competition, with the champions playing such Asian Cup against the Japanese and Russian professionals. That means basicaly a GRR-like calendar, cheaper, with local rivalries and concentration of talent. Same for a South-East Asia league and so on. Rugby doesn't need fully professional leagues if they aren't sustainable, but it can look at meaningful alternative to offer better competition for national team players amd top have nice events for domestic audience. They would still be smashed by the Japanese and Koreans, but it could be a kick off of something professional sustainable in the future.


If China wants to play rugby (I'm not sure it does) it could create 2 full time professional teams by having an army team and a police team.

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby victorsra » Tue, 11 Aug 2020, 21:00

I have a friend, a coach, that worked with rugby in China. University rugby. They already offer schoolarships for rugby, they use main stadiums (with nobody watching) and have pretty good structure for training, all equipaments they need, etc. The problem is they don't realy like rugby. They enter the university without knowing rugby and get the schoolarship because of their athleticism. They are building rugby without passion ,that's the issue. Because nobody knows rugby there. And it is 100% focus on 7s (Olympic).

Such structure could be a kickoff of a proper Chinese league. But right now they don't have the players or the public, would be a waste of money. It would be interesting to start with such semipro model, using, for exemple, such institutions you mentioned.

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Tue, 11 Aug 2020, 21:09

victorsra wrote:I have a friend, a coach, that worked with rugby in China. University rugby. They already offer schoolarships for rugby, they use main stadiums (with nobody watching) and have pretty good structure for training, all equipaments they need, etc. The problem is they don't realy like rugby. They enter the university without knowing rugby and get the schoolarship because of their athleticism. They are building rugby without passion ,that's the issue. Because nobody knows rugby there. And it is 100% focus on 7s (Olympic).

Such structure could be a kickoff of a proper Chinese league. But right now they don't have the players or the public, would be a waste of money. It would be interesting to start with such semipro model, using, for exemple, such institutions you mentioned.


Indeed. Amongst 1.4 billion people there must be some people who would enjoy rugby.

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby ficcp » Wed, 12 Aug 2020, 02:54

Give some more time to the Chinese. They must show an achievement in Sevens before to move towards Rugby XV.

In case USA or Russia win a bid for a RWC, I suppose they will speed up.

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby Hinato » Fri, 21 Aug 2020, 05:26

Pro League: NTT-Docomo Red Hurricanes will play in Sakura Stadium in Osaka!

https://www.asierugby.com/post/pro-leag ... um-d-osaka

The information on the future Japanese Pro League is gradually falling. We learn today that NTT-Docomo Red Hurricanes has finally reached an agreement with Cerezo Osaka, a football club which plays in J-League 1. The reds and whites will thus play from January 2022 in the Sakura Stadium (25 000 places).

The old Nagai Ball Stadium, which will have been completely renovated, will be shared between the rugby franchise and Cerezo Osaka. The split would be like this: the soccer team would play on Saturday and the rugby team on Sunday if both played the same weekend at home. It remains to be seen whether the lawn will hold up over a whole season.

NTT-Docomo Red Hurricanes has thus acquired one of the most modern stadiums for the future Japanese Pro League, notably with the Kumagaya Rugby Stadium of Panasonic Wild Knights (24,000 seats). The reds and whites will be the big rivals in the city of Osaka from Kintetsu Liners, which will be based in the legendary Hanazono Stadium (26,500 seats).

But it now remains to be seen whether NTT-Docomo Red Hurricanes will play in the first or second division of the future Pro League (the third will be corporate). This is where the results of the final Top League season next year will count.

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby Hinato » Fri, 21 Aug 2020, 08:58

Pro League: Kobelco Steelers will play in the Kobe Universiade Memorial Stadium

https://www.asierugby.com/post/pro-leag ... al-stadium

This is not a surprise, Kobelco Steelers will be based in the city of Kobe for the launch of the future Japanese Pro League in January 2022. But unlike NTT-Docomo Red Hurricanes who have reached an agreement with Cerezo Osaka to be share the Sakura Stadium, the Japanese franchise could not find one with the Vissel Kobe.

In fact, the reds and whites will not be able to play at best in Noevir Stadium Kobe (30,132 places) until January, in the absence of the J-League. Kobelco Steelers has thus postponed its choice and will play in the Kobe Universiade Memorial Stadium (35,910 seats).

This makes it already the biggest stadium in the future Japanese Pro League for the time being. Despite his very long athletic track, his ability makes him a major asset for the franchise of Kobe which will be except surprise in the 1st division of the New League.

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby Figaro » Thu, 27 Aug 2020, 13:30

Japan pull out of proposed 8N competiton.
https://rugbylad.ie/proposed-eight-nati ... team-opts/

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby STMKY » Thu, 27 Aug 2020, 17:19

The Russians are proposing to replace Japan with their new mixed team Amur Tigers. This is a format similar to Barbarians. These are the players of the Russian national team + the best foreigners from the Russian PRO League.

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby victorsra » Thu, 27 Aug 2020, 17:31

Where is the source? A non-toilet-paper source, please.

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Thu, 27 Aug 2020, 17:35

STMKY wrote:The Russians are proposing to replace Japan with their new mixed team Amur Tigers. This is a format similar to Barbarians. These are the players of the Russian national team + the best foreigners from the Russian PRO League.


Great idea!

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Re: Japan Rugby

Postby GeoRugby » Thu, 27 Aug 2020, 17:41

Chester-Donnelly wrote:
STMKY wrote:The Russians are proposing to replace Japan with their new mixed team Amur Tigers. This is a format similar to Barbarians. These are the players of the Russian national team + the best foreigners from the Russian PRO League.


Great idea!


Best ever!!!

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