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7s Challenger Series

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Re: 7s Challenger Series

Postby Canalina » Mon, 17 Feb 2020, 12:52

Mexico defeated you in the pool match, the 15th final game has not been played
But, yes, the same source above purposes now this ranking so you must be right

Germany 22 pts
Hong Kong 19 pts
Japan 17 pts
Chile 15 pts
Tonga 13 pts
Zimbabwe 12 pts
#Uganda 11 pts
Papua New Guinea 10 pts
---
Uruguay 8 pts
Jamaica 7 pts
Italy 6 pts
Portugal 5 pts
Colombia 4 pts
Paraguay 3 pts
Mexico 2 pts
Brazil 1pt

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Re: 7s Challenger Series

Postby Canalina » Mon, 17 Feb 2020, 13:14

Counter-counter-news: according to this image, that seems more official even if I don't know where it originally appeared, Brazil finished ahead of Mexico. And, apparently, Hong Kong will be part of a general summation chart, it will not count by its own

Image

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Re: 7s Challenger Series

Postby victorsra » Mon, 17 Feb 2020, 13:59

They beat Brazil in the groups phase and Brazil haven't beat anyone. If both teams were eliminated in the 13th place SFs, I can't see any scenario that Mexico finishes behind Brazil. That must be wrong.
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Re: 7s Challenger Series

Postby thatrugbyguy » Mon, 17 Feb 2020, 14:10

Is it me or is Europe severely underrepresented in this thing?

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Re: 7s Challenger Series

Postby Canalina » Mon, 17 Feb 2020, 14:45

thatrugbyguy wrote:Is it me or is Europe severely underrepresented in this thing?

Let's consider that three teams (Mex, Col, Par) are just "invited" and not competing for the promotion, so there are 3 european teams out of 13. Considering that there are six continents I wouldn't say that Europe is under-represented

victorsra wrote:They beat Brazil in the groups phase and Brazil haven't beat anyone. If both teams were eliminated in the 13th place SFs, I can't see any scenario that Mexico finishes behind Brazil. That must be wrong.

Points difference

Canalina wrote:And, apparently, Hong Kong will be part of a general summation chart, it will not count by its own
https://i.postimg.cc/K8PdPK83/vigna.jpg

I think that a structure counting all the three tournaments in a general chart is more fair than counting for the promotion just the final tournament, but it's also very risky: if they really counted all the three tournaments and if in the final one they assigned the same amount of points of the previous two stages (22, 19, 17, 15, 13, 12, 11, 10), there are not little probabilities to start the Hong Kong tournament with just four or five teams still in course for the first place. Or even, despite being unlikely, to have one team (Germany) already mathematically qualified after the first two rounds, this making useless the last stage

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Re: 7s Challenger Series

Postby Raven » Mon, 17 Feb 2020, 14:57

Canalina wrote:
thatrugbyguy wrote:Is it me or is Europe severely underrepresented in this thing?

Let's consider that three teams (Mex, Col, Par) are just "invited" and not competing for the promotion, so there are 3 european teams out of 13. Considering that there are six continents I wouldn't say they are under-represented


Also, when you think 6 out of the 15 core teams are European it kind of makes sense...

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Re: 7s Challenger Series

Postby victorsra » Mon, 17 Feb 2020, 15:52

Considering Portugal and Italy were very bad in this tournament, the idea of under-representation is not accurate.

I think only time can solve this problem in a realy fair way.

Next year, IMO, there should be 15 core teams, like the main series. And the Top 9 should keep their places for the following season, with the 6 bottom teams going down. This means 1 team from each continent would be promoted. As the Top 9 would stay, if any continent is realy stronger, it would prevail in the Top 9 after a couple of seasons.
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Re: 7s Challenger Series

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Mon, 17 Feb 2020, 16:50

Representation of each region was pretty fair. If there is a region with a claim to being underrepresented, that would be Asia, with only 2 teams, both finishing in the top 3, and no teams in the world series despite providing the venues for 3 of the tournaments.

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Re: 7s Challenger Series

Postby Canalina » Mon, 17 Feb 2020, 17:48

victorsra wrote:Considering Portugal and Italy were very bad in this tournament...

I don't think Italy was very bad. They lost by one try versus the European Champion and eventual tournament winner Germany, they lost by near (14-17 until the very last action) with an Uganda leaded by the excellent Wokorach, they largely won with Paraguay and Colombia and they lost with Uruguay due to a debatable red card. A disappointing series of results, I admit, but all in all not a so bad tournament for us

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Re: 7s Challenger Series

Postby victorsra » Mon, 17 Feb 2020, 18:29

I mean in the standings. The 3 bottom core teams are Italy, Portugal and Brazil.
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Re: 7s Challenger Series

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Mon, 17 Feb 2020, 18:42

Bottom 6 are Latin.

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Re: 7s Challenger Series

Postby victorsra » Mon, 17 Feb 2020, 18:53

But Mexico, Colombia and Paraguay are only invited teams because of the venues. They dont count.
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Re: 7s Challenger Series

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Mon, 17 Feb 2020, 19:31

victorsra wrote:But Mexico, Colombia and Paraguay are only invited teams because of the venues. They dont count.


It's just an observation. 7 of the top 20 XVs teams in the world rankings are Latin countries. But in Sevens only France, Argentina and Spain are in the top 16, with Chile maybe in the top 20 based on this weekend.

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Re: 7s Challenger Series

Postby Hernan14 » Mon, 17 Feb 2020, 19:40

Canalina wrote:
victorsra wrote:They beat Brazil in the groups phase and Brazil haven't beat anyone. If both teams were eliminated in the 13th place SFs, I can't see any scenario that Mexico finishes behind Brazil. That must be wrong.


Points difference


If they use the points difference and not the matches won it is pathetic, it is simple, if a team wins 1 match and loses 4, it cannot be worse placed than one that loses all 5. Anyway, is pathetic that we have to make assumptions, instead of being able to access to the competitions regulation, someone knows where to find it? This is usual, nothing is known, all are assumptions always.

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Re: 7s Challenger Series

Postby Canalina » Mon, 17 Feb 2020, 20:23

To me it's even more weird that we still don't know (or at least that I still don't know) if the HK tournament will count as a ranking by its own (as several clues would suggest) or just as the third part of the series, as the standing in the image above seems indicating

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Re: 7s Challenger Series

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Mon, 17 Feb 2020, 21:01

I have only just become interested in rugby sevens from watching the Challenger Series this weekend. This is what I have found interesting.

These teams are very good sevens teams with not so good fifteens teams:
Kenya, Canada, Germany, Chile.

These are very good fifteens teams but their sevens teams are not so good:
Italy, Uruguay, Tonga, Georgia.

These teams are quite good at fifteens but their sevens teams are not good at all:
Portugal, Romania, Namibia.

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Re: 7s Challenger Series

Postby victorsra » Mon, 17 Feb 2020, 21:11

Uruguay was good in sevens, they've even beaten Argentina in the past, but they focused their investment on 15s because they are too small to afford everything.

Portugal was brilliant in sevens until recently. Top 15 in the world for long time. Also a matter of investment focus.
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Re: 7s Challenger Series

Postby Thomas » Mon, 17 Feb 2020, 21:29

victorsra wrote:Uruguay was good in sevens, they've even beaten Argentina in the past, but they focused their investment on 15s because they are too small to afford everything.

Portugal was brilliant in sevens until recently. Top 15 in the world for long time. Also a matter of investment focus.


I have always had a hope of Portugal returning to the top nations. They beaten Australia at Twickers many years ago. but as Victor said is all about the money.

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Re: 7s Challenger Series

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Mon, 17 Feb 2020, 21:38

Thomas wrote:
victorsra wrote:Uruguay was good in sevens, they've even beaten Argentina in the past, but they focused their investment on 15s because they are too small to afford everything.

Portugal was brilliant in sevens until recently. Top 15 in the world for long time. Also a matter of investment focus.


I have always had a hope of Portugal returning to the top nations. They beaten Australia at Twickers many years ago. but as Victor said is all about the money.


Well you can't argue with the results. Uruguay had a fantastic world cup, and Portugal has won promotion to the REC and won 2 out of 2 (against Belgium and Romania). It's a shame their sevens teams have suffered but they have their priorities right in my opinion.

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Re: 7s Challenger Series

Postby 4N » Mon, 17 Feb 2020, 22:53

Uruguay had some good moments over the weekend. It will be interesting to see how they do with home field advantage in Montevideo.

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Re: 7s Challenger Series

Postby ugrugbychiclet » Tue, 18 Feb 2020, 05:03

Canalina wrote:To me it's even more weird that we still don't know (or at least that I still don't know) if the HK tournament will count as a ranking by its own (as several clues would suggest) or just as the third part of the series, as the standing in the image above seems indicating


I was told yesterday that the teams were told that the overall winner of the Challenger Series will be promoted to the HSBC series. Hong Kong will not count. Nothing official seems to have been announced though.

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Re: 7s Challenger Series

Postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 18 Feb 2020, 06:36

ugrugbychiclet wrote:
Canalina wrote:To me it's even more weird that we still don't know (or at least that I still don't know) if the HK tournament will count as a ranking by its own (as several clues would suggest) or just as the third part of the series, as the standing in the image above seems indicating


I was told yesterday that the teams were told that the overall winner of the Challenger Series will be promoted to the HSBC series. Hong Kong will not count. Nothing official seems to have been announced though.



German federation's sport director Manuel Wilhelm gave an interview yesterday with the German rugby podcast "Eierköpfe", where he stated, that they were told, that "teams should play as if it would count for qualification". He was quite suprised to learn this possibility only in South America, as they had let some players "only at 99% fitness" at home.
So nowhere a confirmation, but a possibility.
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Re: 7s Challenger Series

Postby germanbullsfan » Tue, 18 Feb 2020, 06:41

WR Plan for the out come of the Challenger Series is as Follow : If Japan is the winner at the end of the two legs , The winner of the series will be qualified to the WS. If another team wins the two leged series, the winner of HKG will be promoted to the WS. Its really that simple . If you think thats a bit cynical and sarcastic you right!

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Re: 7s Challenger Series

Postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 18 Feb 2020, 06:58

germanbullsfan wrote:WR Plan for the out come of the Challenger Series is as Follow : If Japan is the winner at the end of the two legs , The winner of the series will be qualified to the WS. If another team wins the two leged series, the winner of HKG will be promoted to the WS. Its really that simple . If you think thats a bit cynical and sarcastic you right!


We don't agree a lot, but here I fear that you are right with the exemption of Hong Kong. They wouldn't hurt their British buddies either. If Japan or HK win it, there will be no HK qualifier.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: 7s Challenger Series

Postby Canalina » Tue, 18 Feb 2020, 07:36

germanbullsfan wrote:WR Plan for the out come of the Challenger Series is as Follow : If Japan is the winner at the end of the two legs , The winner of the series will be qualified to the WS. If another team wins the two leged series, the winner of HKG will be promoted to the WS. Its really that simple . If you think thats a bit cynical and sarcastic you right!

"Comma ter: if the Hong Kong winner was Germany, an other tournament will be instantly organized to define the promotion" :)

Anyway I think we can't blame World Rugby here; this virus seems really a bad bad beast (I've read that even the director of Wuhan Hospital, supposedly a man with the disposability of the best cures, died cause of it) and it's normal that they don't know how to move. Promoting a team after the first two legs seems the wisest decision to me

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