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New world calendar

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Re: New world calendar

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Tue, 19 May 2020, 08:26

Working Class Rugger wrote:
Canalina wrote:From an italian newspaper article reported in a forum
https://forum.rugby.it/viewtopic.php?f= ... 30#p935272

According to the newspaper the calendar would be (the assumptions are by the forumer, not by the journalist)
- Northern Hemisphere National Championships (Top 14, Premieship, ProX) from December to July
- No indication on the cups that I imagine will take place in the same period
- 6N in a period to be identified between February and April, should take place over 6 weeks (not 7 as now)
- August rest
- Abolition of traditional tours, except for B&I Lions.
- September preparation
- In October and November there will be a sort of tournament for nations, 30 nations involved, 6 Tier, the first 2/3 Division will be determined by the results of 6N and Rugby Championship. Which makes me understand that each Division will have 5 teams, each of which would play 4 games in the other hemisphere (south in October) and 4 in its own (north in November). In current hypothesis; Div1 ABs, Boks, Eng, Irl, Fra; Div2 Aus, Wal, Sco, Jap, Arg; Div3 Fij, Ita, Geo, Ton, US (grueling trips ...). Italy would swing between Division 2 and 3, sometimes it could make the D2 even finishing last in the 6N, it would depend heavily on the results of Japan and Fiji.
- In the southern hemisphere, the timetable would remain virtually unchanged


I sincerely hope the Nations Championship concept in that article is wrong. I'd hate that. Too many divisions.

A better structure would be two divisions of 16 teams. Split into two pools of 8. Four from Europe and four from the rest of the world. Play each other once. Winner of each pool play in the final. The rest to determine rankings 3-15. The last placed team is relegated.Whichever team wins the 2nd Div is promoted and participates in the 1st division in the next edition.

Have all the regional competitions align be played in the same 5 week window. This way at the very least most of the teams in the two divisions will have 12 tests per year.


My main objection is the abolition of traditional tours except for B&I Lions. Traditional extended tours hardly happen now anyway. I would like to see them brought back. The B&I Lions tour year should be the year of touring. What better way to make manufactured professional franchises into institutions with history and pride than to play a famous team like the Springboks, the All Blacks, the Barbarians. Ospreys vs Australia, Melbourne Rebels vs France, Los Ceibos vs Italy. These are the games that turn a soulless franchise into something that lives in people's hearts.

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Re: New world calendar

Postby victorsra » Tue, 19 May 2020, 16:54

- In October and November there will be a sort of tournament for nations, 30 nations involved, 6 Tier, the first 2/3 Division will be determined by the results of 6N and Rugby Championship. Which makes me understand that each Division will have 5 teams, each of which would play 4 games in the other hemisphere (south in October) and 4 in its own (north in November). In current hypothesis; Div1 ABs, Boks, Eng, Irl, Fra; Div2 Aus, Wal, Sco, Jap, Arg; Div3 Fij, Ita, Geo, Ton, US (grueling trips ...). Italy would swing between Division 2 and 3, sometimes it could make the D2 even finishing last in the 6N, it would depend heavily on the results of Japan and Fiji.

This conclusion is definitly wrong. If you have a division with 5 teams, you do have 4 matches, but some countries may have 3 in their Hemisphere and only 1 in the other.

And the South-North divide keeps as a false and realy bad idea, it belongs to pre-WWII times, when people traveled by ships (taking weeks) and there was no live TV. Therefore, the season (the weather) was realy what mattered. Nowadays we have air travel that take only some hours and live TV/internet streaming. The most important thing is time, there what matters is East-West, timezones. Of course summer-winter is still an issue, but it has solutions. Rugby needs to think more by the clock than the thermometer.

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Re: New world calendar

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Tue, 19 May 2020, 17:03

victorsra wrote:
- In October and November there will be a sort of tournament for nations, 30 nations involved, 6 Tier, the first 2/3 Division will be determined by the results of 6N and Rugby Championship. Which makes me understand that each Division will have 5 teams, each of which would play 4 games in the other hemisphere (south in October) and 4 in its own (north in November). In current hypothesis; Div1 ABs, Boks, Eng, Irl, Fra; Div2 Aus, Wal, Sco, Jap, Arg; Div3 Fij, Ita, Geo, Ton, US (grueling trips ...). Italy would swing between Division 2 and 3, sometimes it could make the D2 even finishing last in the 6N, it would depend heavily on the results of Japan and Fiji.

This conclusion is definitly wrong. If you have a division with 5 teams, you do have 4 matches, but some countries may have 3 in their Hemisphere and only 1 in the other.

And the South-North divide keeps as a false and realy bad idea, it belongs to pre-WWII times, when people traveled by ships (taking weeks) and there was no live TV. Therefore, the season (the weather) was realy what mattered. Nowadays we have air travel that take only some hours and live TV/internet streaming. The most important thing is time, there what matters is East-West, timezones. Of course summer-winter is still an issue, but it has solutions. Rugby needs to think more by the clock than the thermometer.


I agree with this. For broadcasting there are three regions; Americas, EMEA, and Asia Pacific. The new world calendar needs to be designed with this in mind.

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Re: New world calendar

Postby STMKY » Tue, 19 May 2020, 17:42

How the new calendar will look for Russian rugby. If our idiots officials do not begin to invent a bicycle (as they wanted to play in the winter on the advice of the Welshman Lynn Jones), then this will be the perfect calendar for Russia. Which takes into account our climate as much as possible.
Image

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Re: New world calendar

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Tue, 19 May 2020, 17:48

STMKY wrote:How the new calendar will look for Russian rugby. If our idiots officials do not begin to invent a bicycle (as they wanted to play in the winter on the advice of the Welshman Lynn Jones), then this will be the perfect calendar for Russia. Which takes into account our climate as much as possible.
Image


Can you do this in English?

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Re: New world calendar

Postby victorsra » Tue, 19 May 2020, 18:00

I don't know Russian, but I know what the Cyrillic letters are. So, he said:

January/February = Pre Season
March/April = "Euro" (REC)
April to September = Kontinental or Russian league
October/November = Tests
December = Rest

Am I right?
That's pretty much the standart calendar for most countries outside Western Europe
Last edited by victorsra on Tue, 19 May 2020, 18:06, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New world calendar

Postby STMKY » Tue, 19 May 2020, 18:04

Yes, only April in half. 1\2 weeks of Euro, and 3\4 weeks start of Russian Championship.

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Re: New world calendar

Postby thatrugbyguy » Wed, 20 May 2020, 13:27

That would more or less be the same as the Southern Hemisphere season.

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Re: New world calendar

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Wed, 20 May 2020, 14:09

The new semi pro Scottish Super Six Championship is also intended to run through the summer, which is a smart move in my opinion as it won't clash with the Scottish Premiership or the Pro 14, and will be much more appealing to supporters. Also Scotland doesn't have any professional summer sports as far as I know, so no conflict with Super Rugby or County cricket.

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Re: New world calendar

Postby Vova12 » Wed, 20 May 2020, 14:36

Why do not they want to play EC in February?
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Re: New world calendar

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Wed, 20 May 2020, 14:40

Vova12 wrote:Why do not they want to play EC in February?


Is this a serious question? February is really cold.

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Re: New world calendar

Postby Vova12 » Wed, 20 May 2020, 14:51

I just said for many years that Russia was discriminated against but games were canceled in February just now.
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Re: New world calendar

Postby STMKY » Wed, 20 May 2020, 15:01

At the same time, they want to transfer the club season in Russia to the winter format. If this happens, I think the whole rugby world will laugh out loud.

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Re: New world calendar

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Wed, 20 May 2020, 15:05

Vova12 wrote:I just said for many years that Russia was discriminated against but games were canceled in February just now.


Rugby is in the midst of a change. Hopefully for the better but we will see.

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Re: New world calendar

Postby Canalina » Wed, 20 May 2020, 17:09

Surely you have already talked about this many times, but could you resume the benefits of this projected new world calendar?
I can't see enormous differences with the current situation, "Nations Championship" apart

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Re: New world calendar

Postby STMKY » Wed, 20 May 2020, 17:39

For Russia, this means that finally the Russian team will be able to play their home matches in good weather anywhere in the country, including Krasnoyarsk. In April and October, you can play in Krasnoyarsk.

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Re: New world calendar

Postby victorsra » Wed, 20 May 2020, 23:32

If that happens, I want a video of Vova jumping happily in Siberia

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Re: New world calendar

Postby RugbyLiebe » Fri, 22 May 2020, 07:13

victorsra wrote:If that happens, I want a video of Vova jumping happily in Siberia


If only Siberia wasn't 800km farther away than London from the place where Vova lives.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: New world calendar

Postby FLIDTA RISXVA » Fri, 22 May 2020, 08:26

JUST got this by email

Six Nations Rugby <media@matchdaymail.sixnationsrugby.com>

JOINT STATEMENT - SIX NATIONS AND SANZAAR : GLOBAL CALENDAR

Following the World Rugby meetings in March this year, SANZAAR and the Six Nations (“the Nations”) have been working closely over the lockdown period against a set of key principles between the parties, to develop and agree proposals for an aligned global calendar. Even though there may be different preferences, from the outset the Nations have adopted a mindset that has sought to eliminate self-interest and recognise that the international and club game have shared mutual benefits that if approached and managed correctly can enable both to flourish. A further consultation process, in total transparency with unions, clubs and players, will commence as all parties work towards an aligned global calendar that can deliver a clear and coherent narrative.

The key principles that have underpinned the work to date are;

* Significantly mitigate overlaps between club and country fixtures
* Better aligned player release windows for players, stakeholders and competitions
* Improve player welfare
* Improve narrative and competitiveness of International and Domestic Competitions around clear windows
* Define clear high-performance pathways for Emerging Nations through the delivery of an internationally more inclusive game
* Evolve competition structures that are underpinned with enhanced commercial offerings
* Restore public faith in the core values of rugby and showing strong collective leadership in the best interests of the game.

The Nations together with other key stakeholders remain open to shape the options that have been developed in an effort to resolve an issue that has held the game back for many years and are committed to putting rugby on a progressive path.

ENDS

Christine Connolly
Communications Manager
Guinness Six Nations
Email: christine@6nations.net
Tel: 00353 87 979 5667
http://www.guinnesssixnations.com

TRUST THEM :?: WAIT AND SEE :?:
WHAT DOES THIS MEAN :?:

Restore public faith in the core values of rugby and
showing strong collective leadership in the best interests of the game.

WHEN FAITH WAS LOST :?: WHAT FOR :?:
WHAT THOSE VALUES ARE INDEED :?: (CARTEL | BORDELLE )ISM :!:
WHOM THEY MEAN AS PUBLIC :?: UK RUGBY FOLKS :?:

:::

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Re: New world calendar

Postby iul » Fri, 22 May 2020, 08:34

I am genuinely struggling to understand what financial benefit there will be by playing the SH and NH competitions at the same time. My hot take is that the SH is just trying to get the NH to reduce the number of club games by making them not overlap with tests so that the NH has less money so that the SH doesn't have to fix their own shit to get more money themselves.

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Re: New world calendar

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Fri, 22 May 2020, 08:48

iul wrote:I am genuinely struggling to understand what financial benefit there will be by playing the SH and NH competitions at the same time. My hot take is that the SH is just trying to get the NH to reduce the number of club games by making them not overlap with tests so that the NH has less money so that the SH doesn't have to fix their own shit to get more money themselves.


I think it is being done so the international games and club games don't overlap, so SH players can play club rugby in Europe then return home for internationals.

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Re: New world calendar

Postby iul » Fri, 22 May 2020, 08:55

Chester-Donnelly wrote:
iul wrote:I am genuinely struggling to understand what financial benefit there will be by playing the SH and NH competitions at the same time. My hot take is that the SH is just trying to get the NH to reduce the number of club games by making them not overlap with tests so that the NH has less money so that the SH doesn't have to fix their own shit to get more money themselves.


I think it is being done so the international games and club games don't overlap, so SH players can play club rugby in Europe then return home for internationals.

They already do. A lot of South African players are based in Europe and they still play for SA, while Argentina practically had their entire team based in Europe a few years ago. NZ and Aus choose to not select players not based in their domestic competitions.

IMO all this is to get the NH to make less money.

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Re: New world calendar

Postby victorsra » Fri, 22 May 2020, 14:06

iul wrote:
Chester-Donnelly wrote:
iul wrote:I am genuinely struggling to understand what financial benefit there will be by playing the SH and NH competitions at the same time. My hot take is that the SH is just trying to get the NH to reduce the number of club games by making them not overlap with tests so that the NH has less money so that the SH doesn't have to fix their own shit to get more money themselves.


I think it is being done so the international games and club games don't overlap, so SH players can play club rugby in Europe then return home for internationals.

They already do. A lot of South African players are based in Europe and they still play for SA, while Argentina practically had their entire team based in Europe a few years ago. NZ and Aus choose to not select players not based in their domestic competitions.

IMO all this is to get the NH to make less money.

If the change of the mid year tests from June to July, August would be basicaly the only resting month for Europe-based players. And players that played.in July would need to do pre season work in September while the rest of the team is already played the Top14/Premiership first rounds... This means SH wouldn't be able to have those players in TRC. I guess they know they will need those players more in the next years... that's the same reason why July moving to October is also better.

It seems much more a players-related move, not business-motivated. Rugby has a too long season and know it needs to respond better to such issues.

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Re: New world calendar

Postby victorsra » Fri, 22 May 2020, 19:25

Important to show what happened now is just what some of us were talking about the Pichot vs Beaumont election. No matter whoever wins, the dialogue with the other side would need to happen. If people were annoyed about the discuss, it was just lack of compreenhion about what was happening. It is much bigger than Pichot or Beaumont.

If a Beaumont supporter says "oh, you see, Pichot wasn't needed", it would be utterly false. The movement headed by Pichot made this pressure, it was essencial. If a Pichot supporter says "oh, conservatives won so now nothing will happen": it is also false, the guys that backed Beaumont aren't dumb, they now they need to change. The outcome, how much things will change, will show us the big picture behind the election split, the relation of forces and needs. It is definitly much more complex than any grammar of simple politics.... :roll:

It is very very very positive to see the new calendar movement happening and it is a product of the previous election conflict. As history is never a repetition of cyclic things, will rugby be able to make a revolution with a very different process than FIFA's? Maybe, let's see what will emerge.

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Re: New world calendar

Postby Figaro » Fri, 22 May 2020, 20:35

iul wrote:
Chester-Donnelly wrote:
iul wrote:I am genuinely struggling to understand what financial benefit there will be by playing the SH and NH competitions at the same time. My hot take is that the SH is just trying to get the NH to reduce the number of club games by making them not overlap with tests so that the NH has less money so that the SH doesn't have to fix their own shit to get more money themselves.


I think it is being done so the international games and club games don't overlap, so SH players can play club rugby in Europe then return home for internationals.

They already do. A lot of South African players are based in Europe and they still play for SA, while Argentina practically had their entire team based in Europe a few years ago. NZ and Aus choose to not select players not based in their domestic competitions.

IMO all this is to get the NH to make less money.


I dont know about elsewhere in the NH but here in Wales there is very much an appetite for Internationals not to overlap with domestic Rugby. Nobody wants to watch the regions play shorn of their best players i.e. Wales internationals, and a lot of the criticism of the Pro14 revolves around the fact that the national players are absent so often, especially for the Welsh teams that can't afford to pay for a dozen New Zealanders to win games when the national side's players are away. Having the domestic game not overlap wont fix it completely of course - the national players still won't want to play 40 games in a year - but it will certainly help.

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