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World Rugby politics

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World Rugby politics

Postby Armchair Fan » Sat, 23 May 2020, 12:37

As I don't see why WR elections topic was closed, let's keep discussing this...

Khaled Babbou has appeared in L'Équipe:
https://www.lequipe.fr/Rugby/Actualites ... ue/1136946

"We chose in a democratic way, with secret ballot, and I'm not the only one deciding as we are an 11-member ExCo. The vote happened 3-4 days before closing elections. When there are issues in rugby elections they often target the weakest, Africa. There is something sick behind that, the idea that we are easily corrupted"

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Re: World Rugby politics

Postby victorsra » Sat, 23 May 2020, 13:58

Another thing we discussed seriously. If they had published about it, like Asia Rugby, it would have been much more transparent...

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Re: World Rugby politics

Postby victorsra » Sat, 23 May 2020, 14:06

In fact, this should be in WR bye-laws. The votes of all 6 continental unions must be decided by internal ballot, with the results published. If not all countries vote directly in the WR Council, it would be very reasonable they decide the votes of the continents always in a democratic way. It must be in the bye-laws.

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Re: World Rugby politics

Postby 4N » Sat, 23 May 2020, 16:04

The way Pichot tells the story, Babbou went from being against Beaumont to being in favor of him. But there were two candidates running against Pichot and it is Laporte and the FFR who have always had close links with African and particularly North African rugby. Laporte gave a long interview a month before the vote where he discussed everything he had worked on with African rugby and plans for the future. I posted it on the African rugby thread. It isn’t a big surprise that they voted the way that they did.

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Re: World Rugby politics

Postby carbonero » Sat, 23 May 2020, 18:54

Africa choosing Laporte makes sense in a vacuum. The issue is that they supported him while their Tunisian chairman, a North African with strong links to French rugby, was part of Pichot’s camp. Babbou admits to that in L’Equipe. Won’t you would feel deceived if the dude couldn’t bring the votes home?

That said, Pichot is a dumbass. No need to burn bridges. He should be graceful in defeat, lay low for a while and let Laporte drown in his promises.

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Re: World Rugby politics

Postby Hernan14 » Mon, 25 May 2020, 01:25

Armchair Fan wrote:As I don't see why WR elections topic was closed, let's keep discussing this...


I don't understand it either ... my comment about the low of your comment was because not everyone understands Spanish and can be misinterpreted. Disculpas si me malinterpretaste o me malinterpreté yo en inglés, quise decir que me pareció muy bajo ese comentario, porque muchos usuarios no entienden español, y él había explicado muy bien el porque pensaba eso sobre el voto de África. Entonces quizás al ver tu comentario sobre el porque él estaba tan convencido (cuando estaba claro en la entrevista) me pareció que no era justo y que no sumaba...creo que es claro, el rol de Babbou en su postulación y eso deja todo más que claro en cuanto a porque se siente traicionado.

In the interview it was clear why he felt that about Babbou and even he said that he is not naive and that he understood that it was a political issue and therefore him try to communicate with him later.

Regarding the other, the same is perfectly normal to have different opinions.

Canalina, my dear...You didn't understand what I meant, precisely I didn't say that preferring Beaumont or Pichot is to defend the "status quo" or not, my criticism is to use the status quo as a position in the election, given that to discuss and try to enhance Rugby if we are going to use arguments that the best is that everything remains the same but at the same time want that rugby changes and expands don't have any sense.

Nor did I mention you specifically, neither because of the status quo nor because of the racist comments, beyond you considering that the africans are "good people but lazy and a bit slow".

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Re: World Rugby politics

Postby victorsra » Sun, 07 Jun 2020, 17:38

Interesting: https://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/consulta ... tory.shtml

If true Laporte wants to keep in FRR and not try the WR chair, well, it changes the analysis....

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Re: World Rugby politics

Postby victorsra » Fri, 26 Jun 2020, 19:21

According to Piñeyrua World Rugby postponed the decision of a new world calendar to July 15th (not June 30th anymore) https://hablemosderugby.com/2020/06/25/ ... %9f%8c%b2/

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Re: World Rugby politics

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 22 Jul 2020, 15:11

A review into Bill Beaumont’s re-election as World Rugby chairman in May has been called for after Pacific Rugby Players Welfare alleged in a stinging 59-page dossier submitted to the sport’s global governing body on Wednesday that World Rugby’s governance was “glaringly deficient”. The Veilomani Report, named after the Fijian term for loving one another, claimed World Rugby were in breach of its own bye-laws and International Olympic Committee (IOC) regulations.


https://www.rugbypass.com/news/prpw-iss ... cr-hKQB6vg

download-link to the report:
https://www.pacificrugbywelfare.com/blo ... ani-report
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: World Rugby politics

Postby victorsra » Wed, 22 Jul 2020, 17:38

Come on, what about Beaumont SAFE HANDS?

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Re: World Rugby politics

Postby sk 88 » Wed, 22 Jul 2020, 18:36

https://www.world.rugby/news/576592/world-rugby-statement-pacific-rugby-players-welfare-comments

Cannot release any info or updates into their inquiry into Frances Keen but can get this angry rebuttal to a submission to their own review out in a couple of hours. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: World Rugby politics

Postby Canalina » Thu, 23 Jul 2020, 07:05

http://www.americasrugbynews.com/2020/0 ... -beaumont/

Almost all the critics reported by the article (Fiji backed Beaumont despite Pichot being the candidate suited to Fiji’s interests, World Cups are balanced in favor of Tier 1 teams, RWC tournaments have an unbalanced distribution of fixtures, World Rugby Council voting structure is non-democratic) seem to me weak and debatable.
Anyway I understand that fijian players living under a dictatorship (I don't know in the details how bad is that dictatorship) could feel outraged to see World Rugby supporting a violent man, brother of the dictator. Under this aspect World Rugby is hardly defendable and their decision to expel Kean arrived way too late

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Re: World Rugby politics

Postby RugbyLiebe » Thu, 23 Jul 2020, 07:40

Canalina wrote:http://www.americasrugbynews.com/2020/07/22/prpw-recommend-investigation-into-the-re-election-of-bill-beaumont/

Almost all the critics reported by the article (Fiji backed Beaumont despite Pichot being the candidate suited to Fiji’s interests, World Cups are balanced in favor of Tier 1 teams, RWC tournaments have an unbalanced distribution of fixtures, World Rugby Council voting structure is non-democratic) seem to me weak and debatable.
Anyway I understand that fijian players living under a dictatorship (I don't know in the details how bad is that dictatorship) could feel outraged to see World Rugby supporting a violent man, brother of the dictator. Under this aspect World Rugby is hardly defendable and their decision to expel Kean arrived way too late


I disagree, I have my doubts, that you actually can give nations extra seats based on them being part of a private entity under the Olympic fair gouvernance act. World Rugby knows it and tries to cover it up with a sport twist for this additional vote:
"The Six Nations & Rugby Championship Unions which have qualified for the past two Rugby World Cups (Bye-Law 9.4(b))"

I've just screened over the report, but yes, there seems to be nearly everything in it, that is simply wrong with Rugby Union gouvernance.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: World Rugby politics

Postby Canalina » Thu, 23 Jul 2020, 15:25

It's a lazy question because I could try inform by myself, but do someone of you know why there's a military dictatorship in the Fiji? I mean, they are just about 800K inhabitants, if I recall correctly, they are seen as a sort of Paradise islands, they should not be very poor thanks to Commonwealth and tourism, they are part of a rich and democratic union as Commonwealth... you don't associate all that to a military dictatorship. I suspect that maybe it could be the result of some violent tension between different tribes or/and different islands.
Maybe the national "warrior spirit" viewable in rugby push them to not love so much the democracy?

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Re: World Rugby politics

Postby victorsra » Thu, 23 Jul 2020, 16:03

Dont know the real answer, but there is historicaly a tension between Native Fijians and Indo-Fijians, the Indians the British brought to work in the islands. They are 38% of the population according to wiki. Also the British colonial period had some sort of apartheid there, at least I know they split rugby in ethnic lines. So, not that paradisiacal. If "warrior" spirit was a cause Maoris and other Pacific people wouldn't live in democracies...

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Re: World Rugby politics

Postby TheStroBro » Thu, 23 Jul 2020, 18:39

RugbyLiebe wrote:
Canalina wrote:http://www.americasrugbynews.com/2020/07/22/prpw-recommend-investigation-into-the-re-election-of-bill-beaumont/

Almost all the critics reported by the article (Fiji backed Beaumont despite Pichot being the candidate suited to Fiji’s interests, World Cups are balanced in favor of Tier 1 teams, RWC tournaments have an unbalanced distribution of fixtures, World Rugby Council voting structure is non-democratic) seem to me weak and debatable.
Anyway I understand that fijian players living under a dictatorship (I don't know in the details how bad is that dictatorship) could feel outraged to see World Rugby supporting a violent man, brother of the dictator. Under this aspect World Rugby is hardly defendable and their decision to expel Kean arrived way too late


I disagree, I have my doubts, that you actually can give nations extra seats based on them being part of a private entity under the Olympic fair gouvernance act. World Rugby knows it and tries to cover it up with a sport twist for this additional vote:
"The Six Nations & Rugby Championship Unions which have qualified for the past two Rugby World Cups (Bye-Law 9.4(b))"

I've just screened over the report, but yes, there seems to be nearly everything in it, that is simply wrong with Rugby Union gouvernance.


FIFA is One country, One vote for full members.

World Rugby has over 150 Full Member Unions, less than 25 have votes of any kind. In order to qualify for a vote on the World Council you have to qualify for at least one World Cup. But within the regulations they can also revoke your vote if you fail to qualify for the next world cup...see Romania being at risk. Granting voting rights to Samoa and Fiji was pretty stupid, they didn't earn it. Every single dollar invested into those unions ends up being embezzled by the Union officials. The coaching contracts are funded directly by WR.

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Re: World Rugby politics

Postby Canalina » Thu, 23 Jul 2020, 18:54

Doctor Jekyll and Mister Hyde? Or Fiji Rugby is still intoxicated by his presence and not able to condemn him?

A Guardian article about Francis Kean, from the month of may
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... at-inmates

The greetings to Francis Kean appeared today on Fiji Rugby
https://www.fijirugby.com/latest-news/f ... -rotation/

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Re: World Rugby politics

Postby Thomas » Thu, 23 Jul 2020, 19:41

How much credence should we give to this report

Six Nations: Fiji claim they are 'on the verge' of participation
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/53518677

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Re: World Rugby politics

Postby victorsra » Thu, 23 Jul 2020, 22:38

This is not THE Six Nations. It is just the special tournament for november 2020 between the 6N, Fiji and Japan and it is true. Fiji and Japan won't be in the 6N in 2021.

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Re: World Rugby politics

Postby RugbyLiebe » Fri, 24 Jul 2020, 07:18

TheStroBro wrote:
RugbyLiebe wrote:
I have my doubts, that you actually can give nations extra seats based on them being part of a private entity under the Olympic fair gouvernance act. World Rugby knows it and tries to cover it up with a sport twist for this additional vote:
"The Six Nations & Rugby Championship Unions which have qualified for the past two Rugby World Cups (Bye-Law 9.4(b))"

I've just screened over the report, but yes, there seems to be nearly everything in it, that is simply wrong with Rugby Union gouvernance.


FIFA is One country, One vote for full members.

World Rugby has over 150 Full Member Unions, less than 25 have votes of any kind. In order to qualify for a vote on the World Council you have to qualify for at least one World Cup. But within the regulations they can also revoke your vote if you fail to qualify for the next world cup...see Romania being at risk. Granting voting rights to Samoa and Fiji was pretty stupid, they didn't earn it. Every single dollar invested into those unions ends up being embezzled by the Union officials. The coaching contracts are funded directly by WR.


You can chose whatever you like how your member unions are represented. Base it on membership numbers, even if heavily tweaked, base it on RWC participation. What you can't do if you fall under good governance is base participation on being member of a private closed shop entity. and that's what they are clearly doing here.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: World Rugby politics

Postby Thomas » Fri, 24 Jul 2020, 11:42

victorsra wrote:This is not THE Six Nations. It is just the special tournament for november 2020 between the 6N, Fiji and Japan and it is true. Fiji and Japan won't be in the 6N in 2021.


I do realise that, but I just cannot square this circle. nothing is ever simple with 6N Rugby.

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Re: World Rugby politics

Postby Canalina » Sat, 25 Jul 2020, 10:19

I've read some new articles about the WR election, this morning. The first one is a brief Pichot declaration, reported by myrugby.ge: "Perhaps Bill Beaumont had more ambitions, a desire to hold the post of World Rugby president, than I did, which could have had an impact on the final outcome". A neutral statement, nothing special. https://myrugby.ge/news/2667
Two other articles, from South Africa and Argentina, give infos about the PRPW document, reporting some of its major accuses
http://www.dobleamarilla.com.ar/mas-all ... 2ab2d1f51c
http://www.news24.com/sport/rugby/world ... d-20200723
Reading the accuses I thought: "ok, World Rugby had some lacks, the major one being to have accepted Kean in the council, but are the other rugby boards different?”
I checked the major issues:

- manipulation of the votes through exchange of favors (they use also the word “bribe”)
the PRPW document mentions the promise of important games made to the Fiji Union, but what about the almost explicit exchange of favors between Australia and Argentina?

- "World Rugby lacks a commitment to diversity, we demanded greater representation on its 12-person executive committee. There are more men with the name 'Brett' on ExCo than there are women, or people from a Black and minority ethnic (BAME) background".
Maybe this is right, but, again, what about 'the others'?
This is the Oceania Rugby ExCo: 8 men and 1 woman (in representation of the women sector) http://www.oceaniarugby.com/content.asp ... 726|38402v
This is the Sud America Rugby council: eleven man and a woman, which has the minor role of them all; and I can't see BAME between them. "There are more Sebastian men on SAR ExCo than women and BAME...". In the staff and commissions there are 11 men and 0 women; the only other woman is Alejandra Betancur, sent to the WR council because requested by the same World Rugby https://sudamerica.rugby/espanol/sudame ... -directivo
And this is the UAR council: https://uar.com.ar/consejo-directivo-2/ 24 hombres, 0 mujeres…

- Conflict of interests: “No employee or contractor of a Member Union can be elected to the Executive Committee. Yet, of the current ExCo members, Mark Alexander is the president of the SAfrica Union, Gareth Davies is the chairman of the Welsh Union, John Jeffrey is the interim chairman of the Scottish Union and Bernard Laporte (Vice-Chairman) is the president of the FFR".
PRPW submits that, given the seniority of the Vice-Chair role and, in particular, given that the Vice-Chair would assume the position of the (otherwise independent) Chair in the event that the Chair ceases office under Bye-Law 9.8.2(e), the Vice-Chair role should be independent".
"(xvi) increase the independence of ExCo, particularly the role of Vice-Chairman"

So I wondered: what about Pichot? He was World Rugby vice-president, but also Rugby Americas president, very influencing counselor of the Sud America Rugby president, counselor of the Major League, counselor of SANZAAR, involved in the Argentina bid to the RWC. He was the incarnation of the conflict of interests and he was WR vice president until the 2020 election, but PRPW never cites him.

All in all, I think that the PRPW document is not out of target, but it seems at least a bit biased

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Re: World Rugby politics

Postby Canalina » Sat, 25 Jul 2020, 10:26

PRPW requests that World Rugby should

(i) make a commitment to Fair Play for all Member Unions;
(ii) give a public update on the status of its investigation into Francis Kean;
(iii) consider the governance lessons that can be learned from the Francis Kean affair;
(iv) appoint a disciplinary officer to investigate the allegations surrounding the 2020
World Rugby election;
(v) do more to constructively resolve the governance issues in the Pacific Islands, particularly in relation to state interference;
(vi) enforce Regulation 4 on foreign-based academies in relation to Fiji;
(vii) appoint a disciplinary officer to investigate the potential misconduct conduct of SRU
chairman, Tuila'epa Sailele Malielegaoi;
(viii) appoint a disciplinary officer to investigate the potential misconduct of TRU
president Fe’ao Vunipola in relation to the TRU’s 2019 election;
(ix) create a fairer programme of international matches;
(x) introduce a revenue-sharing model to make the programme of international matches
more equitable;
(xi) abandon its Nations Championship proposal;
(xii) publish the criteria for Eligibility for Consideration of Membership to Council;
(xiii) publish the Common Association Constitution;
(xiv) create a vetting process for all World Rugby officials;
(xv) create a 1 Member = 1 Vote system for the Council;
(xvi) increase the independence of ExCo, particularly the role of Vice-Chairman;
(xvii) do more to avoid actual or potential conflicts of interest;
(xviii) increase efforts to improve diversity on ExCo and prevent racial discrimination;
(xix) include the Rugby World Cup within the scope of the Review;
(xx) improve the transparency of RWCL;
(xxi) do more to avoid actual or potential conflicts of interest within RWCL;
(xxii) review and reform the scheduling process for Rugby World Cup pool matches;
(xxiii) create a meaningful code of ethics;
(xxiv) clarify when it will initiate misconduct proceedings;
(xxv) clarify when it will take steps to declare someone an “Unsuitable Person”;
(xxvi) extend its ability to appeal disciplinary decisions;
(xxvii) ensure the publication of all disciplinary decisions;
(xxviii) consider the introduction of a right of appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport in
appropriate cases;
(xxix) ensure the publication of all international tournament regulations;
(xxx) undertake not to publish Law application guidelines less than 12 months prior to the
start of a Rugby World Cup;
(xxxi) commission a fully independent governance review; and
(xxxii) publish the findings of the Review in full.

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Re: World Rugby politics

Postby victorsra » Sat, 25 Jul 2020, 15:01

So I wondered: what about Pichot? He was World Rugby vice-president, but also Rugby Americas president, very influencing counselor of the Sud America Rugby president, counselor of the Major League, counselor of SANZAAR, involved in the Argentina bid to the RWC. He was the incarnation of the conflict of interests and he was WR vice president until the 2020 election, but PRPW never cites him.


Sorry, but the Rugby Americas, Sudamerica Rugby and SANZAAR posts are not conflict of interests and absolutely needed. There is no conflict as he is basicaly a Argentina representative representing Argentina where Argentina is involved. And the WR vice president must be a Council member, which mean he was elected as Argentina's representative. You can't run as independent. So, how is this conflict? Maybe you can question only MLR's position. Pichot's conflicts are only releated to business outside rugby.

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Re: World Rugby politics

Postby victorsra » Sat, 25 Jul 2020, 15:15

Canalina wrote:PRPW requests that World Rugby should

(i) make a commitment to Fair Play for all Member Unions;
(ii) give a public update on the status of its investigation into Francis Kean;
(iii) consider the governance lessons that can be learned from the Francis Kean affair;
(iv) appoint a disciplinary officer to investigate the allegations surrounding the 2020
World Rugby election;
(v) do more to constructively resolve the governance issues in the Pacific Islands, particularly in relation to state interference;
(vi) enforce Regulation 4 on foreign-based academies in relation to Fiji;
(vii) appoint a disciplinary officer to investigate the potential misconduct conduct of SRU
chairman, Tuila'epa Sailele Malielegaoi;
(viii) appoint a disciplinary officer to investigate the potential misconduct of TRU
president Fe’ao Vunipola in relation to the TRU’s 2019 election;
(ix) create a fairer programme of international matches;
(x) introduce a revenue-sharing model to make the programme of international matches
more equitable;
(xi) abandon its Nations Championship proposal;
(xii) publish the criteria for Eligibility for Consideration of Membership to Council;
(xiii) publish the Common Association Constitution;
(xiv) create a vetting process for all World Rugby officials;
(xv) create a 1 Member = 1 Vote system for the Council;
(xvi) increase the independence of ExCo, particularly the role of Vice-Chairman;
(xvii) do more to avoid actual or potential conflicts of interest;
(xviii) increase efforts to improve diversity on ExCo and prevent racial discrimination;
(xix) include the Rugby World Cup within the scope of the Review;
(xx) improve the transparency of RWCL;
(xxi) do more to avoid actual or potential conflicts of interest within RWCL;
(xxii) review and reform the scheduling process for Rugby World Cup pool matches;
(xxiii) create a meaningful code of ethics;
(xxiv) clarify when it will initiate misconduct proceedings;
(xxv) clarify when it will take steps to declare someone an “Unsuitable Person”;
(xxvi) extend its ability to appeal disciplinary decisions;
(xxvii) ensure the publication of all disciplinary decisions;
(xxviii) consider the introduction of a right of appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport in
appropriate cases;
(xxix) ensure the publication of all international tournament regulations;
(xxx) undertake not to publish Law application guidelines less than 12 months prior to the
start of a Rugby World Cup;
(xxxi) commission a fully independent governance review; and
(xxxii) publish the findings of the Review in full.


"(xi) abandon its Nations Championship proposal". Well, wasn't the NC Pichot's idea? So, how is this biased?

Anyway, I agree with most points, but to be against Nations Championship is just to be blind. The question is the format, not if some sort of competition should replace tests. There must be a competition replacing tests. But an open one. "(x) introduce a revenue-sharing model to make the programme of international matches more equitable" won't be properly achieved with simple tests. The right sentence would be "review the Nations Championship".

"create a 1 Member = 1 Vote system for the Council" is naive. It sounds cool and democratic, but is isn't in a sport where most countries have only a handful of clubs. We have discussed this before. It must be a open system, with everybody participating more, but not 1 country 1 vote. This also might damage women participation in the Council.

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