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What happens if ARC is discontinued?

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Re: What happens if ARC is discontinued?

Postby victorsra » Sun, 14 Jun 2020, 18:12

It doesn't make any sense for Pichot to destroy his own creation, honestly, specialy if he plans eventualy to run again by 2023 (who said he doesn't?). It is just Piñeyrua losing his mind.
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Re: What happens if ARC is discontinued?

Postby Pichulonko » Mon, 15 Jun 2020, 04:14

jonny24 wrote:The arrogance to claim to desire equality and democracy, only to criticize someone for exercising their right to vote as they saw fit if it wasn't the candidate someone else wanted, is astounding.


Of course Canada has the right to vote as they see fit, but there's a meaning behind a nation's vote and Canada's was loud and clear: we want to follow a different path.


jonny24 wrote:
It is entirely possible to remain committed to the ARC and building rugby in the Americas, while also choosing a different candidate than the other to lead world rugby.

You can;t have your cake and eat too. Canada is part of RAN so figure it out from there but don't expect much help of assistance from the conference you voted against.

jonny24 wrote:Let's not forget that the last four years of growth and development in the Americas did happen under Bill Beaumont. He isn't the devil.


Are you for real? The growth was all thanks to Pichot in spite of Beaumont.


Everyone here has spoken lots but no one has yet to explain how Argentina XV, Uruguay, Brasil and Chile benefit from playing Canada's and the USA's developmental teams once a year?

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Re: What happens if ARC is discontinued?

Postby Armchair Fan » Mon, 15 Jun 2020, 09:12

Are they developmental teams? It is not rare to see a Tier 2 fielding different teams depending on goals and scheduling, that's not a developmental teams. And anyway I'd always rather play than not.

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Re: What happens if ARC is discontinued?

Postby RugbyLiebe » Mon, 15 Jun 2020, 09:39

Pichulonko wrote:Everyone here has spoken lots but no one has yet to explain how Argentina XV, Uruguay, Brasil and Chile benefit from playing Canada's and the USA's developmental teams once a year?


a) they have 5 more guaranteed games a season against opposition which is on the same level.
b) they have games that have a meaning to people outside of the rugby bubble (Panamerica etc.).
c) they could have used this to get more teams in the World Cup with no risk at all to lose a place
d) all SA teams involved have gotten way better in the last years
e) Their players are showcased worldwide and will earn more pro-contracts in the future. It is way easier to scout players, when you know there is a competition on, when it is an unknown number of friendlies not centrally marketed and maybe not even televized.

Actually I see nothing apart from travelling costs, which they are not benefitting from.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: What happens if ARC is discontinued?

Postby Tobar » Mon, 15 Jun 2020, 14:57

Pichulonko wrote:
jonny24 wrote:The arrogance to claim to desire equality and democracy, only to criticize someone for exercising their right to vote as they saw fit if it wasn't the candidate someone else wanted, is astounding.


Of course Canada has the right to vote as they see fit, but there's a meaning behind a nation's vote and Canada's was loud and clear: we want to follow a different path.


jonny24 wrote:
It is entirely possible to remain committed to the ARC and building rugby in the Americas, while also choosing a different candidate than the other to lead world rugby.

You can;t have your cake and eat too. Canada is part of RAN so figure it out from there but don't expect much help of assistance from the conference you voted against.

jonny24 wrote:Let's not forget that the last four years of growth and development in the Americas did happen under Bill Beaumont. He isn't the devil.


Are you for real? The growth was all thanks to Pichot in spite of Beaumont.


Everyone here has spoken lots but no one has yet to explain how Argentina XV, Uruguay, Brasil and Chile benefit from playing Canada's and the USA's developmental teams once a year?


Argentina XV is by definition a developmental team. They do not count as test matches and the players constantly change depending on who UAR wants to get more playing time.

The rest of the countries benefit from playing USA and Canada because they are better teams, or at least the US is. The US was better than any of these teams with the exception of Argentina XV in 2016/2019 and Uruguay in 2019. Canada still was better than most of the teams but their record is split. They are without a doubt better than Chile though so there should be no question that your national team benefits from playing them.

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Re: What happens if ARC is discontinued?

Postby TheStroBro » Mon, 15 Jun 2020, 17:07

Canalina wrote:
jonny24 wrote:The arrogance to claim to desire equality and democracy, only to criticize someone for exercising their right to vote as they saw fit if it wasn't the candidate someone else wanted, is astounding.

It’s the big wave of populism generated by Pichot. Populism has always the same features, in whichever ambit

- a solitary leader
- awesome but vague missions: we must be all equal, more democracy, a global growth
- doubtless certainties: we are right, the others are wrong
- the leader (aka “el nuestro grande lìder”) is surrounded by worshipping gregarious and supporters, like Smithers/Pineyrua
- the leader affirms repeatedly to be not interested at all to the chairs, but he has a lot of offices (like, for pure example, vicepresident of World Rugby, president of Rugby Americas, counselor of Rugby Americas North, puppeteer of the president of Sudamerica Rugby, manovrateur of all the most important affairs of Argentina Rugby, counselor of Sanzaar)
- the opponents of the populists are always enemies, not simple adversaries, and of course they incarnate all the worst charachteristics that a man may incarnate
- the chief opponent is depicted as rich, powerful and arrugant; the populistic leader instead depicts himself as simple, not interested to the power and desiring just to help the others
- the populists never lose. If that unfortunately happens, the fault must be loaded on an external culprit, let’s say for example the representant of Africa Rugby. Some heavy and free accusations may be thrown to the scapegoat (let’s say for example “corruption? Well, I hope there was not…”)
- in front of the problems the populists react in a childish way: let’s say for example “I don’t care if I reapetedly said that I want to help rugby, if I can’t have the most important role in the world I quit all my other many roles and I slam the door behind me like a primadonna” or “they voted against el nuestro grande lìder!!! We will not participate anymore to the ARC !”
- for the populists, and for their idolizing fans, whoever thinks differently from them is a “traitor”

I think the post-electoral phase is clearly showing how much we have been lucky on having a normal person like Beaumont winning the election, and not an egocentric populist


Rugby Americas is not a political body. It is an administrative sub-corp of World Rugby that runs World Rugby funded competitions in the Americas Region. Americas Rugby Championship, Americas Rugby Challenge, U20 Americas Rugby Championship, and U20 Americas Rugby Challenge are World Rugby funded and administered competitions. Someone else from the ExCo will likely by appointed president of Rugby Americas, it was Pichot because he was from here and was the Vice Chair. Looking at the current ExCo it will likely be Bob Latham.

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Re: What happens if ARC is discontinued?

Postby victorsra » Mon, 15 Jun 2020, 17:22

Exactly, Americas Rugby doesn't vote in WR Council. That's why Sudamerica Rugby and Rugby Americas North will never merge, they don't want to lose votes.
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Re: What happens if ARC is discontinued?

Postby 4N » Mon, 15 Jun 2020, 18:22

Thomas wrote:I agree with all that people have said and Mexico and Central America will get stuck in no man's land as the USA aligns itself with Canada their natural allies if it does eventuate and ARC is discontinued.


There should be opportunities for Mexico to continue to develop links with clubs across the border, particularly in Texas. Hopefully American teams can play them regularly at junior level too because I think it would benefit both countries if the game developed there. There’s no doubt USA vs Mexico would draw better crowds than some of the ARC games have. So in the short to medium term the goal should be to try to get them up to a level close to where Chile are now, maybe with added Mexican-American players that the US can help them identify. Then get them involved in the ARC or a new tournament with North American teams.

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Re: What happens if ARC is discontinued?

Postby victorsra » Mon, 15 Jun 2020, 19:09

Mexico's move to Sudamerica Rugby became not important when Americas Rugby Challenge was born. They had the best situation possible for their development, between both worlds.
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Re: What happens if ARC is discontinued?

Postby Thomas » Mon, 15 Jun 2020, 20:27

victorsra wrote:Mexico's move to Sudamerica Rugby became not important when Americas Rugby Challenge was born. They had the best situation possible for their development, between both worlds.


There is some truth to that, but also trying to find ways to be self-sufficient and develop internally. ARC was a means to an end in the domestic market.

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Re: What happens if ARC is discontinued?

Postby victorsra » Mon, 15 Jun 2020, 21:49

Yes, I mean the possibilities offered by the existence of ARCh. What each country does with them is another thing.
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