Tier 2 & 3 Rugby Forum

Multi-sport Cities

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Re: Multi-sport Cities

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Fri, 31 Jul 2020, 05:19

Working Class Rugger wrote:
victorsra wrote:
Chester-Donnelly wrote:Coventry's stadium, Butts Park Arena, looks pretty decent. And they are one of the best supported Championship teams. I think whatever the structure is for England's level 2, they will be part of that. I quite like the idea of a 16 team second tier. There are some fairly big clubs with decent facilities in the division below the Championship. I would like the English Championship to be popular.

But I guess 16-teams means Championship will be downgraded to semi-professional, right?


That's actually an interesting question. The article suggests they want to pool resources in ordered to attract increased broadcasting and sponsorship opportunities which suggests the goal would be to make the Championship more financially stable and capable than it currently is. I think the goal should certainly be to develop the Championship further as a professional competition. Both in terms on playing standard and attendance. If the standard in terms of stadium is say 5k then the goal should be for clubs to regularly draw near capacity crowds and be able to operate a salary cap not at the level of the Premiership but something close to the Super League.

Of course that won't be possible from day one but that should be in the medium to long term goals of the Championship clubs.


If you set that at 4000, almost every club would qualify. Current attendances are around 1000, 2000 for the bigger clubs. 4000 would be plenty big enough. Getting near capacity crowds would mean more than doubling attendances. With increased broadcasting revenue, plus merchandising, hospitality, increased sponsorship etc these clubs probably could be professional.

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Re: Multi-sport Cities

Postby Working Class Rugger » Fri, 31 Jul 2020, 05:37

Chester-Donnelly wrote:
Working Class Rugger wrote:
victorsra wrote:
Chester-Donnelly wrote:Coventry's stadium, Butts Park Arena, looks pretty decent. And they are one of the best supported Championship teams. I think whatever the structure is for England's level 2, they will be part of that. I quite like the idea of a 16 team second tier. There are some fairly big clubs with decent facilities in the division below the Championship. I would like the English Championship to be popular.

But I guess 16-teams means Championship will be downgraded to semi-professional, right?


That's actually an interesting question. The article suggests they want to pool resources in ordered to attract increased broadcasting and sponsorship opportunities which suggests the goal would be to make the Championship more financially stable and capable than it currently is. I think the goal should certainly be to develop the Championship further as a professional competition. Both in terms on playing standard and attendance. If the standard in terms of stadium is say 5k then the goal should be for clubs to regularly draw near capacity crowds and be able to operate a salary cap not at the level of the Premiership but something close to the Super League.

Of course that won't be possible from day one but that should be in the medium to long term goals of the Championship clubs.


If you set that at 4000, almost every club would qualify. Current attendances are around 1000, 2000 for the bigger clubs. 4000 would be plenty big enough. Getting near capacity crowds would mean more than doubling attendances. With increased broadcasting revenue, plus merchandising, hospitality, increased sponsorship etc these clubs probably could be professional.


And that should the the overall goal. To build these clubs and the competition up to the point where they are actively engaging their community and seeing returns for their efforts. I think the restructure could lead to a very solid competition and being able to draw in local support in these more intimate environs can be what really makes Rugby great.

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Re: Multi-sport Cities

Postby Figaro » Fri, 31 Jul 2020, 10:04

Chester-Donnelly wrote:
victorsra wrote:
Chester-Donnelly wrote:Coventry's stadium, Butts Park Arena, looks pretty decent. And they are one of the best supported Championship teams. I think whatever the structure is for England's level 2, they will be part of that. I quite like the idea of a 16 team second tier. There are some fairly big clubs with decent facilities in the division below the Championship. I would like the English Championship to be popular.

But I guess 16-teams means Championship will be downgraded to semi-professional, right?


I don't know. Maybe. Most of the players in the Championship earn peanuts. They would be better off if it was semi pro. I suspect it will be a mixture of professional coaches, premiership academy and squad players, and semi pros. The clubs could be affiliated with Premiership clubs. The Welsh Premiership is similar. Each Welsh Pro 14 team has up to 4 Welsh Premiership clubs feeding into it.


The Welsh rugby premiership is a total mess, definitely not something Is advocate anyone to emulate.

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Re: Multi-sport Cities

Postby sk 88 » Fri, 31 Jul 2020, 11:19

jservuk wrote:
Chester-Donnelly wrote:
sk 88 wrote:
TheStroBro wrote:The point of owning a ground is so you can rent it out for other events. Which they've done. When you do that you make tons of cash. See the Munster-Saracens match.


Generating cash is one thing, they do that. But generating cash costs money (to put on events) and they are losing £10m per year. Even accounting for sharing costs to the arena company to reduce losses elsewhere they have turned a profitable arena into one haemorrhaging cash.

They can be reliable investments but I cannot see how you can charaterise the Ricoh as one for Wasps.


This why I think the best solution would be for CCFC to be a tenant, so they can reduce their structural deficit. CCFC is potentially a very big club. Ricoh Arena is also in a very good central location, easily accessible from most of the country, so is a good location for big sports events, concerts etc. It should be a cash cow.


Out of interest, has there been any analysis or study as to how many people from Coventry have become regular/occasional attendees at Wasps? Have any switched from CCFC to Wasps?

Also, there was talk a couple of years ago that Wasps wanted to buy the site where CCFC had their training ground. From the outside it seemed like a blatant attempt to run CCFC out of town (or maybe just SISU). It suggests that Wasps were prepared to risk a total breakdown in relations with CCFC, which would certainly have happened had they bought that place. If this is the case, it suggest they had some contingency for no income from CCFC.

Also, around the same time, the Coventry City council were very keen on promoting the city as a Rugby City. I think it was mooted to have a Rugby League team at the Ricoh, possibly to offset any income loss if the football team walked.

The people that run Wasps are rich, shrewd and bold. I think they'll survive without the football club.


I did hear something about CV postcodes v previous season ticket holders. Basic maths suggests the vast majority of attendees must be new, and presumably local.

I doubt many "hardcore" CCFC fans would switch, but there are only maybe 10,000 of those in almost a million people in a CV postcode. Anecdotally I have heard that they don't sell many season tickets but generally have people come a couple of times a year from a fairly wide area (for instance Sutton Coldfield or Solihull). Ref the training ground I agree it came across horribly for them. Knowing the city a little it was the "obvious" spot, which is why CCFC already had it. I think if they had invested into the personal relationships with their current partners (instead of having Haskell slag them off and not defending them) the current location would be a lot better than any of the other propositions.

Richardson isn't that rich from public records. I'm not sure he'll be willing to sink too much more in to be honest. Certainly he can't stand £10m+ for another 5 years.

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Re: Multi-sport Cities

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Fri, 31 Jul 2020, 12:16

sk 88 thank you. Very insightful. I guess it is a strategy of Wasps to not identify specifically with Coventry, but rather be the team of the West Midlands. Despite their losses, which obviously is a big concern, they are succeeding where Moseley, Birmingham Bees and Coventry RFC have failed.

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