Tier 2 & 3 Rugby Forum

Inter-continental competitons

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Re: Inter-continental competitons

Postby victorsra » Tue, 27 Oct 2020, 23:54

I don't think the Russian want it either.

The South African Rugby Union won't put money in a 5th team. They made it clear. And it would need to be a PRO17/18, which sounds too much for the Celtic nations.

The brand is not that important outside South Africa. It is not valuable. Only matters in the South African domestic market, honestly.

The question is who offers what to make the Cheetahs viable.

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Re: Inter-continental competitons

Postby Rebus » Wed, 28 Oct 2020, 22:07

Could Russians not just buy/heavily sponsor non-Russian teams similar to what they have done in sports across the world (thinking Gazprom in particular or VTB).
If they wanted to increase the profile of Russian rugby , it would not be a big ask and cheaper than buying a football or basketball team, to buy a prominent English, South African or French rugby club as well as owning a domestic Russian team.

Take a little bit of what everyone has been saying and the owner could ;
1. Increases local development by investing in schools , universities , academy - not a huge outlay for an oligarch/state company , particularly as sevens is an Olympic sport , so government funding and Russia is making a ply for a RWC so they will help support this also good local PR.
2. Pay for uncapped players from round the world to play for the domestic team - league gets profile raised and players can become Russian eligible.
Start doing this now and you can get a decent selection eligible for 2027 , but definitiely a wider squad for 2031
3. Raised profile of league makes it more attractive for EPRC to invite Russian teams to automatically enter European competitions. EPRC gets Russian corporate sponsorship / TV money in return - An example is how Gazprom is involved with European football
4. The prominent club the Russian has bought or sponsored gets the best Russian players playing for them. Raises profile of company through sponsorship and once players are capped by Russia , players can play in non Russian leagues. This happens in other sports where sponsors money influences the player recruitment.
Disadvantage would be if the domestic team qualified for Europe , similar to Wild when he owned Stade Francais and invested into the German team.

Get a few oligarchs together who want rugby as their new plaything or state run way to demonstrate financial muscle and it should be straightforward to get Russian rugby into Tier 1 within 10 years , failing that have something like Gazprom sponsor clubs and compettions in exchange for Russian access to competitions. This would be easier , particularly with the cash strapped organisations and competitions due to COVID. In fact no better time for cash rich investors / governments to start calling the shots.

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Re: Inter-continental competitons

Postby ficcp » Thu, 29 Oct 2020, 03:03

I agree with all your points, is the right path to strengthen the league in the mid and long terms. But if a wealthy sponsor decides to hire a well conformed team from Africa with not much possible competitions in 2021, it would be a good energetic tonic for the russian league right now.

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Re: Inter-continental competitons

Postby STMKY » Thu, 29 Oct 2020, 06:27

Think in the right direction. RUR is doing something in this regard, but not enough. With such a huge budget, big projects have to be done. They clearly lack flexibility. Remember Biaritz had problems? I offered them to buy this club. The costs are minimal. Several million euros per year. But you will get access of Russian players to the PROD2 club system. Applies not only to the main team, but also to the youth teams. Unfortunately, there are a lot of idiots in the RUR. For example, they organized a rugby-7 tournament for weak amateur teams from Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan ... worth 250 thousand dollars for 2 days! Apparently paid for 7-star hotels for amateurs with gold toilets.

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Re: Inter-continental competitons

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Thu, 29 Oct 2020, 08:21

I'm sure Kings could be bought for practically nothing. At the moment the former staff and players are surviving on handouts.

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Re: Inter-continental competitons

Postby Figaro » Thu, 29 Oct 2020, 08:55

Presumably the Kings' staff's contracts are now null and void and they are free to sign elsewhere. Pretty much the only thing you'd be buying would be the name and the brand, which are worthless. The team has only existed for some six years and is strongly associated with heavy defeats on the field and financial incompetence off it.

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Re: Inter-continental competitons

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Thu, 29 Oct 2020, 11:09

Figaro wrote:Presumably the Kings' staff's contracts are now null and void and they are free to sign elsewhere. Pretty much the only thing you'd be buying would be the name and the brand, which are worthless. The team has only existed for some six years and is strongly associated with heavy defeats on the field and financial incompetence off it.


You're right. The Russians could set up the Czars in Port Elizabeth for nothing.

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Re: Inter-continental competitons

Postby victorsra » Wed, 04 Nov 2020, 15:24

https://www.sarugby.co.za/news-features ... y-sanzaar/

Springboks stay in TRC. Which means no 6N for them.

And also means SANZAAR keeps blind about Japan.

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Re: Inter-continental competitons

Postby Raven » Wed, 04 Nov 2020, 15:33

Wasn´t it clear that Japan wasn´t going to take part of the Rugby Championship though? I mean, it shouldn´t come as a surprise given the recent "political disagreements" ...

Thank god they are scrapping the 6 Nations...

With current times and rugby´s constant development, 10 years is an eternity that could see a whole new different scene altogether.

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Re: Inter-continental competitons

Postby victorsra » Wed, 04 Nov 2020, 15:45

Raven wrote:Wasn´t it clear that Japan wasn´t going to take part of the Rugby Championship though? I mean, it shouldn´t come as a surprise given the recent "political disagreements" ...

Thank god they are scrapping the 6 Nations...

With current times and rugby´s constant development, 10 years is an eternity that could see a whole new different scene altogether.

I'm not surprised. But that's bizarre.

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Re: Inter-continental competitons

Postby ficcp » Wed, 04 Nov 2020, 16:10

Japan could be a cash cow for SANZAAR. I would invite them to participate in 2021 RCH already ¡ Fiji certainly can not contribute with fund but with a well equilibrated team with an attractuive game and the highest individual flavour. A six teams tournament could be a profitable and sportingly attractive innovation.

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Re: Inter-continental competitons

Postby Raven » Wed, 04 Nov 2020, 16:25

ficcp wrote:Japan could be a cash cow for SANZAAR. I would invite them to participate in 2021 RCH already ¡ Fiji certainly can not contribute with fund but with a well equilibrated team with an attractuive game and the highest individual flavour. A six teams tournament could be a profitable and sportingly attractive innovation.


It's been made quite clear that Japan doesn't intend to be SANZAAR's "cash cow" and they want in 100%, and tbh, it's a fair point. They have been trying to break into the Southern Hemisphere for a while (mainly with NZ) and just after 4 years of Super Rugby they are cut... Let´s see how -or IF- their alledged "new alliance" with the North favours them (that we know of at least they had an offer for this November and a Lions Pre-Tour friendly, surely we are to see more of these invites)

Puting aside the fact that I don't think either side has done the same ground work -on and off the field- as Argentina has done to play the Rugby Championship, but I agree with what you say about what Fiji could add on the field if they are able to put their best team.

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Re: Inter-continental competitons

Postby victorsra » Wed, 04 Nov 2020, 16:42

Japan's move to 6N is realy unmanageable. European clubs are pushing to have the 6N reduced from 7 to 6 weeks. Japan would mean matches with extrema time zone change. Obviously, there is no point having Japan not playing home matches.

"Oh, but TRC also has extreme time zone changes". True, but SANZAAR has more space in the calendar to manage that and no clubs pressure. Of course, with SAs going to PRO14 this will make it more difficult to manage.

BTW, would TRC stay in August-September? If so, when Lions, Bulls, Sharks and Stormers players would have vacation? That's a central issue for the future of TRC. Maybe, if PRO14 has no matches during the 6N, that will be Lions, Bulls, Sharks and Stormers players' break? I think so.

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Re: Inter-continental competitons

Postby Raven » Wed, 04 Nov 2020, 17:23

Just for the record, I wasn't suggesting Japan was going to join the 6 Nations, but I do see more Northern Tier 1 countries heading over to play them in test windows at full strength and not with a second string team, and them travelling more often too.

I agree with everything you just said and I have made myself the same question in regards to player welfare. I know SARU has announced their -clear- INTENTION to move their franchises to Europe, but nothing has been confirmed as of yet, right? perhaps there's still some negotiations to be made...

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Re: Inter-continental competitons

Postby victorsra » Wed, 04 Nov 2020, 17:33

Exactly, nothing confirmed about SA, but very likely.

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Re: Inter-continental competitons

Postby thatrugbyguy » Thu, 05 Nov 2020, 05:00

I would argue strongly Japan doesn't even need SANZAAR. The World cup was a huge success, the national team is now T1 level, and they're going to have a professional league that will have access to all the best players in the Pacific and more potential viewers than SANZAAR combined. If anything, Japan could revive the old Super Powers Cup from about 20 years ago and create their own tournament. Japan, USA, Russia and Canada playing each other yearly.

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Re: Inter-continental competitons

Postby Rebus » Thu, 05 Nov 2020, 07:40

Japan might not appear to need SANZAAR but it would benefit from building relationships with them.
I was very surprised that SA remained in SANZAAR , genuinely thought they would try to move to Europe , but if Japan wants to build on the success of the World Cup , they are doing the right thing and creating their new professional club league , but they would benefit from building relationships at a national level. Getting access to play in a competition with the current world champions and the All Blacks and Australia would improve any team and should not be ignored.
Also , as you have Argentina in there is as well , you could start to look at the countries bordering the Pacific Ocean ( appreciate Argentina isnt one of them ), and if Europe wants to try and be the power broker , by opening up competitions across the Pacific Ocean , not only are you bringing in the Pacific Island nations , but you are bringing in some of the biggest economies , Japan , Russia , USA , Canada
Basically , the Tier one teams have the players (SA,NZ,Aus,Argentina) , the Tier 2 nations (Russia , USA , Canada ) have the economies , there should be a sensible marriage of the two.
Lets be honest , apart from the occassional match against France , England or Ireland , I cant see any reason why the teams mentioned above would go to Europe anymore , there are far more long term benefits by building relationships / competitions across the Pacific and the 6N teams have shown a hostility to doing anything other than what suits them.
If I was a sponsor or TV company , that is what I would be pushing for , the corporate and audience figures would be potentially huge

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Re: Inter-continental competitons

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Thu, 05 Nov 2020, 08:52

An annual North Pacific Nations Cup (Japan, Russia, Canada, USA), and an annual Pacific Nations Cup (Japan, Fiji, Tonga, Samoa) will give Japan 6 games (same as teams in the Rugby Championship). Add to that home and away tours and Japan has the right number of test matches. With Russian Premier League, MLR and Pacific Island teams in Super Rugby, the standard of opposition is only going to improve. Long term this can only be a good thing for Japan.

There could also be a women's North Pacific Nations Cup, as Japan, Russia, Canada and USA are all investing in women's rugby.

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