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Inter-continental competitons

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Re: Inter-continental competitons

Postby armchair_expert » Sat, 24 Oct 2020, 23:03

it's getting more and more interesting
https://www.netwerk24.com/Sport/Rugby/c ... s-20201025
Cheetahs speel dalk teen Duitsers

Spanne van Georgië en Duitsland kan deel word van ’n nuwe toernooi in Rusland waarin die Cheetahs oorweeg om te speel.

Die Cheetahs, wat op hul knieë is nadat hulle saam met die Kings uit die vergrote Pro16 gestem is, poog intussen kliphard om deur middel van ’n moontlike promosie-en-relegasie-wedstryd te verseker dat hulle vorentoe weer hul plek in die reeks in die Noordelike Halfrond herwin.

Hulle, SuperSport en SA Rugby het al verskeie gesprekke daaroor en ander belangrike sake gehad sedert einde September se vergadering van die beheerliggaam se hoofraad. Die oogmerk is om te verseker dat die Cheetahs relevant en een van die grotes in die land bly.

Gesprekke tussen die partye word deur ingeligtes as positief bestempel.

Afgesien van die toernooi in Rusland, ondersoek die Vrystaters die moontlikheid om in Amerika te speel.

Die Russiese toernooi blyk egter groter aandag te trek omdat die Vrystaters met deelname daarin met ’n ompad vir die Europese Kampioenebekertoernooi kan kwalifiseer.

Miljoene rande se prysgeld is in laasgenoemde kompetisie op die spel.

“Dit gaan nog ’n tydjie neem voordat die Cheetahs ’n besluit (oor hul toekoms) neem,” het ’n ingeligte aan Rapport gesê.

“Daar blyk nou ook ’n derde opsie te wees wat die Cheetahs oorweeg,” het nog ’n rugbyadministrateur gesê.

Die Cheetahs sal onder meer moet bepaal in watter toernooi hulle makliker kan verseker dat hul topspelers bly en watter finansiële voordele dit sal inhou.

Hulle sal hul onkoste in enige toernooi self moet betaal nadat die Cheetahs en Kings se betrokkenheid in die Pro14 SA Rugby jaarliks sowat R74 miljoen sedert 2017 gekos het.

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Re: Inter-continental competitons

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Sun, 25 Oct 2020, 00:15

Very vague and speculative. But having the Cheetahs in the KRL would raise the competition's profile. This could be the European Rugby professional third tier competition we've been waiting for. There could even be the potential for adding a team from Kenya, and of playing games in the Middle East (as a kind of half way point for the Cheetahs to play Russian teams without spending days travelling). There are quite a few South Africans in the Middle East, and the Cheetahs are everyone's second favourite team.
Could the South China Tigers somehow be involved? After all the KHL has a team in China.

Speculative format

Quarter finals (home and away)
Enisei vs South China Tigers
Krasny Yar vs Georgian team
VVA vs Cheetahs
Lokomotiv Penza vs Bucuresti Wolves

With semi finals and final played in one location as a mini tournament.

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Re: Inter-continental competitons

Postby victorsra » Sun, 25 Oct 2020, 06:22

Pretty much the same thing of the last report and means nothing. Russia has no power to promise the Cheetahs a place in the Challenge Cup. They aren't EPCR stakeholders.

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Re: Inter-continental competitons

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Sun, 25 Oct 2020, 07:28

victorsra wrote:Pretty much the same thing of the last report and means nothing. Russia has no power to promise the Cheetahs a place in the Challenge Cup. They aren't EPCR stakeholders.


Whether or not Cheetahs could qualify for the Challenge Cup through the KRL depends on whether the four South African Pro 16 teams are accepted into the EPCR competitions. If they are, a couple of teams would be needed to have pools of four.

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Re: Inter-continental competitons

Postby STMKY » Sun, 25 Oct 2020, 09:08

What does the admission of South African teams from PRO16 have to do with it? Cheetahs will formally be a Russian club. Or Russian / Boer. They will be based in Russia for at least several months a year. And play your home matches in Saransk (or Kaliningrad or Sochi).
KRL it will be a league like the KHL. Most of the Russian teams + several foreign ones. This is a full league, not a short Cup.
The approximate format of the KRL in the season 2021.
11 teams (Russians + Cheetahs) play 10 rounds + playoffs (1\4, 1\2 and Finals) home and away. From June to early October.

I have heard that the Dutch want to create a franchise to participate in some international league. The Germans were ready to play KRL. I think that our Polish friends can also create a franchise, for example, in Troimyasto. This is a great option. Maybe Belgians too.
We need to reformat the KRL. And make out of it something similar to PRO14, but with two levels. Between which there will be a transition.
1. Kontinental Rugby League (Division 1) - 15 teams.
In 1 cycle + traditional playoffs starting from 1/4 (home and away). 20 game weeks.
-Russians (10 clubs from PL)
-Cheetahs
-Timisoara and Steaua
-Batumi (club) and Dinamo Tbilisi (Georgian Championship players franchise)
2. Kontinental Rugby League (Division 2) - 8-12 teams.
In 2 cycles + French playoffs (6 teams). Maximum 25 game weeks. The winner goes directly to KRL 1D.
-Russians (Dinamo Moscow, St. Petersburg, Nizhny Novgorod, Perm, Samara, Nalchik ..)
-Polish team
-German team
-Dutch team
-Belgian team
This could be part of Kirill Yashenkov's campaign for the head of Rugby Europe.
The time of the KRL (1D) and KRL (2D) is from April\May to September\October.
This is great weather for all matches. Also the lack of competition from other sports and even most rugby championships. It will also allow players from foreign countries to play from their national championships in Georgia, Romania, Poland, Germany ...

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Re: Inter-continental competitons

Postby STMKY » Sun, 25 Oct 2020, 09:12

When you can show this KRL full league to the representatives of the EPCR, then we can speak of the expansion of the EPCR from 3 to 4 leagues (PRO16, Top-14, Premiership + KRL). To begin with, you can suggest an option:
1st place KRL - to the Champions Cup (probably Cheetahs)
2nd-5th KRL places - to the Challenge Cup

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Re: Inter-continental competitons

Postby STMKY » Sun, 25 Oct 2020, 09:31

An competition in Russia seem still ss an strong possibility for Cheetahs with America to and an unknown competition to.
https://twitter.com/DjRossouw87/status/ ... 8299917312

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Re: Inter-continental competitons

Postby victorsra » Sun, 25 Oct 2020, 14:22

Once more you are inventing stuff out of your stupid mind. Nothing is said the Cheetahs would play as a Russian team. They were a South African team playing at home in PRO14. Why would they accept relocation? It is said they would have to finance themselves. There is not a single case of a team-in-exile in professional sport, because this is a bizarre model. They'll do a relocation only if some Russian business pays for it. Otherwise, makes no sense. And also makes no sense for a Russian to pay for the Cheetahs instead of creating its own team and buy international players :roll: The Cheetahs are most likely wanting to keep their current model, but without SAR money. That's why they want so bad the Champions Cup.

And this article contains a whopper of a lie that is exactly the access to the Champions Cup. Russia doesn't even have the right to play the Challenge Cup. It played because EPCR invited the best Continental Shield teams.

Let's remember the Premiership can be expanded (less spots for T2s in the Challenge Cup) and yes PRO16 teams matter because if the Cheetahs there will be the need to open the cup for the others.

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Re: Inter-continental competitons

Postby STMKY » Sun, 25 Oct 2020, 14:54

You are some kind of inveterate, you look at the processes in dynamics. If the Russian league becomes stronger, Cheetahs and other teams will play in it. It is obvious that the best teams in this league will become more interesting for the EPCR.
It is clear that there may be different options for moving Cheetahs to Russia. But in any case, for the EPCR they will be a team that plays home matches in Russia.

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Re: Inter-continental competitons

Postby victorsra » Sun, 25 Oct 2020, 15:02

No dude, I search for solid information and intelligent arguments (based on proper analysis of the whole context), and you can't provide neither. You posted a vague information containing a lie (the Champions Cup) and just imagined shit and invented information (like Cheetahs playing home matches in Russia, that is nowhere written).

It is not obvious EPCR will open up for the competition. It is an organization owned by the 6Ns (Rugby Europe doesn't have a word about it). You know (I guess... not sure if you actualy know anything) how they work. If your league become stronger (and with decent attendances, that you don't have now), they might open, but not right now like the Cheetahs want.

The idea of a KRL is very interesting and could provide money for T2 rugby in Europe, that's for sure. But it is only positive if other countries are also stakeholders. Also, KRL's first goal should be become a EPCR stakeholder itself, not relying on the "good will" of the 6Ns.

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Re: Inter-continental competitons

Postby STMKY » Sun, 25 Oct 2020, 15:21

This is your problem. You are clinging to some insider information. And I'm looking at the logical course of things in the future. When Kings and Cheetahs had financial problems, it immediately became obvious to me that they were moving to Russia. This is simple logic based on grade 1 math. 2 + 2 = 4. In South African rugby, money is in trouble. In Russian rugby, on the contrary, the growth of money. The next step is obvious. And I don't need anybody's facts for this. And then, after a few months, real facts emerge. This is how it works. Logic first, facts second. And not vice versa.

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Re: Inter-continental competitons

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Sun, 25 Oct 2020, 16:44

Cheetahs should be able to survive through a combination of Currie Cup, a handful of organised friendlies packaged and branded as a "World Series" similar to what Kings and Western Force have done before, and one or two intercontinental competitions such as the European Challenge Cup, KRL or Super Rugby of some sort.
Maybe the most desirable arrangement would be for the four South African Pro 16 teams to be treated as Europeans, competing for places in the ER Champions Cup through the Pro 16, and for the Cheetahs to have an automatic place in the ER Challenge Cup, and compete for a spot in the Champions Cup through winning that. Another option could be for the Currie Cup to be the qualifying tournament for the Champions Cup and Challenge Cup.
This would leave one place available for the KRL winner, unless the English Premiership expands to 13, in which case all places will be filled by the cartel.

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Re: Inter-continental competitons

Postby victorsra » Sun, 25 Oct 2020, 17:14

STMKY wrote:This is your problem. You are clinging to some insider information. And I'm looking at the logical course of things in the future. When Kings and Cheetahs had financial problems, it immediately became obvious to me that they were moving to Russia. This is simple logic based on grade 1 math. 2 + 2 = 4. In South African rugby, money is in trouble. In Russian rugby, on the contrary, the growth of money. The next step is obvious. And I don't need anybody's facts for this. And then, after a few months, real facts emerge. This is how it works. Logic first, facts second. And not vice versa.


No, it isn't. If Russia is promising a Champions Cup, spot, the least you should expect is the mention "Russia is actively negociating with EPCR". Otherwise, it is just the same sort of bad speculation we saw in rugby all over the world recently.

No, it wasn't obvious. First, because the Kings are dead. Second, because it the Cheetahs were expecting to stay in the PRO14. They are not in financial trouble like the Kings were. They were kicked out of PRO14 by South Africa Rugby to give space to their 4 former-Super Rugby teams. You don't even follow international rugby to know what is properly going on. How do you expect to be taken seriously?

The only obvious thing is that the Cheetahs would try another international option. And they are: Russia (with a misinformation about EPCR) and USA (where they won't realy find money, as MLR operates in the limit).

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Re: Inter-continental competitons

Postby STMKY » Sun, 25 Oct 2020, 17:22

Actually, what I wrote here and seemed to everyone a fantasy a few months ago. Now the South African media are writing about this, referring to sources in Cheetahs. If Kings were smart enough to pay attention to Russia like in Cheetahs, they would not have gone bankrupt. It's just Kings stupidity.

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Re: Inter-continental competitons

Postby victorsra » Sun, 25 Oct 2020, 17:24

It was a fantasy, you had no inside information. Just like the GRR mumbo jumbo.

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Re: Inter-continental competitons

Postby victorsra » Sun, 25 Oct 2020, 17:30

The key thing here is what we were talking about before. Russia has a political interest on the RWC and knows it needs to grow domestic rugby (as predicted here, but not by you, Russia wants also the much more realistic 2031 goal), but also knows Rugby Europe doesn't offer what Russia needs. No surprises that Russia wants the presidency of Rugby Europe and to build an international league. The question here is the same old question: how to get into the 6Ns groups, that control EPCR, that control the 6N. And how to enter the WR Council. All things I was trying to properly discuss while you loaded the discussion here with garbage.

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Re: Inter-continental competitons

Postby STMKY » Sun, 25 Oct 2020, 18:06

This is called force majeure. Who could have guessed that only 1 round of the GRR would play because pseudo-virus. If the Martians come to earth tomorrow. Then Cheetahs will not play in Russia. It is obvious. I'm not talking about force majeure situations (1% probability). I am tell about 90% of the main vector of development.

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Re: Inter-continental competitons

Postby iul » Sun, 25 Oct 2020, 18:16

Change their name to Giltahs and put them in MLR

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Re: Inter-continental competitons

Postby victorsra » Sun, 25 Oct 2020, 18:16

No, it isn't. You invented all that talk about expansion while the obvious thing (only you couldn't see) was that Force (out of necessity) was trying to build something realy difficult to manage, with or whithout pandemics. And now they are giving up. Yet, you were projecting in a toilet paper a global expansion.

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Re: Inter-continental competitons

Postby Vova12 » Sun, 25 Oct 2020, 18:25

Only chance of Cheetahs moving to Russia is if STMKY becomes a billionaire and pays for everything from his own pocket.
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Re: Inter-continental competitons

Postby STMKY » Mon, 26 Oct 2020, 06:43

I may shock you, but by the standards of the realities of Russian rugby, Cheetahs is poorer than the top 3 richest clubs in Russia. I estimate their budget is 2 times less than the budget of the Strela.
Now money in Russian rugby is no longer a problem. Even in 2020, budgets are growing, although they are decreasing everywhere in the world. The main problem is how to spend wisely all these huge budgets. This sometimes leads to comical incidents. They spend millions of dollars on beach rugby, snow rugby and amateur rugby sevens.

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Re: Inter-continental competitons

Postby Vova12 » Mon, 26 Oct 2020, 07:59

Nobody will give money to a foreign team. Calm down already.
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Re: Inter-continental competitons

Postby STMKY » Mon, 26 Oct 2020, 10:00

They have their own sponsors. But if necessary, I am 100% sure that Artemiev will also give them Russian sponsors. This is not a problem at all. If they can spend 250 thousand dollars on an amateur rugby-7 tournament in 2 days. For 2 days! With the participation of teams from Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and other exotic countries. 2-3 million dollars a year for Cheetahs is a penny for them. But the effect for the league and for Russian rugby is enormous.

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Re: Inter-continental competitons

Postby STMKY » Mon, 26 Oct 2020, 10:03

Did you hear what Yashenkov said? He promised to increase the budget for Rugby Europe from 4 to 8 million euros with the help of Russian sponsors. The same is possible when moving to Cheetahs.

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Re: Inter-continental competitons

Postby Vova12 » Mon, 26 Oct 2020, 12:04

Пиздеть , не мешки ворочать. Google cant translate it.Chatting is not hard work.
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