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Autumn Nations Cup 2020

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Re: Autumn Nations Cup 2020

Postby kearnc25 » Sat, 14 Nov 2020, 18:02

Tobar wrote:
Warpath wrote:yeah this is a joke, apart from maybe a few support staff, no player has covid, this was done intentionally by LFR to avoid playing fiji.


I don’t buy this at all. They wouldn’t purposely miss out on playing a game just to avoid playing Fiji for whatever reason. That’s lost revenue.



Haha yeah nobody is turning down tv money just cause the might lose and France in the from they are in have no reason to fear anyone.

In terms of the England vs Georgia game it was entirely unimpressive, had there been better weather I could see England having got another 10-20 points. England have a claim to being the best in the world atm (and most likely will blitz my beloved Ireland next week) so the rest of the games are a better barometer. Saying that Georgia got a lot wrong that didn't have anything to do with the opposition. Missing touch from kicks (this is the worst offender to me), bad decision making, bad handling (granted it was wet) and fitness (granted it’s their second game) that they need to get up to par before they can be taken serious on this level. I'm worried this opportunity has come at the exact worst time for Georgia combining their internal struggles in the union and that they are coming into a changing generation of players. I'm kind of hoping they don't play Italy because this Italian side is pretty fucking tasty and a bad loss to them will see Georgia written off by a lot of people. Hopefully I'm wrong.
Last edited by kearnc25 on Sat, 14 Nov 2020, 18:12, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Autumn Nations Cup 2020

Postby GeoRugby » Sat, 14 Nov 2020, 18:11

In terms of the England vs Georgia game it was entirely unimpressive had there been better weather I could see England having got another 10-30 points. England have a claim to being the best in the world atm (and most likely will blitz my beloved Ireland next week) so the rest of the games are a better barometer. Saying that Georgia got a lot wrong that didn't have anything to do with the opposition. Missing touch from kicks (this is the worst offender to me), bad decision making, bad handling (granted it was wet) and fitness (granted it’s their second game) that they need to get up to par before they can be taken serious on this level. I'm worried this opportunity has come at the exact worst time for Georgia combining their internal struggles in the union and that they are coming into a changing generation of players. I'm kind of hoping they don't play Italy because this Italian side is pretty fucking tasty and a bad loss to them will see Georgia written off by a lot of people. Hopefully I'm wrong.


Good points. Unforced errors are killing Georgia. In pre game interviews, players talk about how tier1 nations don't forgive such things , then they go out on the pitch and commit these silly errors that turn into points for opposition. Many Georgian "Heart and soul" players have retired recently and it looks like, its going to take some time for Georgia to start clicking again with new players.

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Re: Autumn Nations Cup 2020

Postby kearnc25 » Sat, 14 Nov 2020, 18:16

GeoRugby wrote:
Good points. Unforced errors are killing Georgia. In pre game interviews, players talk about how tier1 nations don't forgive such things , then they go out on the pitch and commit these silly errors that turn into points for opposition. Many Georgian "Heart and soul" players have retired recently and it looks like, its going to take some time for Georgia to start clicking again with new players.


A positive to take away is that you have played the best team now and also the team best suited to countering Georgia's strengths. The Welsh and Irish games should be better tests and hopefully we will see some more positive points from those games. These games are invaluable to younger Georgian players regardless of what happens.

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Re: Autumn Nations Cup 2020

Postby GeoRugby » Sat, 14 Nov 2020, 18:25

kearnc25 wrote:
GeoRugby wrote:
Good points. Unforced errors are killing Georgia. In pre game interviews, players talk about how tier1 nations don't forgive such things , then they go out on the pitch and commit these silly errors that turn into points for opposition. Many Georgian "Heart and soul" players have retired recently and it looks like, its going to take some time for Georgia to start clicking again with new players.


A positive to take away is that you have played the best team now and also the team best suited to countering Georgia's strengths. The Welsh and Irish games should be better tests and hopefully we will see some more positive points from those games. These games are invaluable to younger Georgian players regardless of what happens.


Definitely. It'll interesting to watch how players react next week in Wales.

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Re: Autumn Nations Cup 2020

Postby kearnc25 » Sat, 14 Nov 2020, 18:32

GeoRugby wrote:
Definitely. It'll interesting to watch how players react next week in Wales.


Wales had bad scrum problems against Ireland so hopefully Georgia can exploit that.

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Re: Autumn Nations Cup 2020

Postby sk 88 » Sat, 14 Nov 2020, 18:53

Worth pointing out the last Italian visit to Twickenham was a 57-14 defeat and the other previous game in England was 37-0. Georgia will be targeting Wales & the 4th play off game for upsets, but even if they don't I think this tournament is looking a good structure

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Re: Autumn Nations Cup 2020

Postby victorsra » Sat, 14 Nov 2020, 20:00

Indeed, the Nations Cup could provide a model for a global expansion to become a rugby version of the UEFA Nations League and replace the tests.

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Re: Autumn Nations Cup 2020

Postby kearnc25 » Sat, 14 Nov 2020, 20:34

victorsra wrote:Indeed, the Nations Cup could provide a model for a global expansion to become a rugby version of the UEFA Nations League and replace the tests.


I'd be very surprised if it was anything more than a one and done competition.

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Re: Autumn Nations Cup 2020

Postby TheStroBro » Sat, 14 Nov 2020, 22:10

Generally looking at results, can we stop using Italy's form as the reason for Georgia to be included? If you look back at the last 5+ years of fixtures, their best game v. T1 was the Wales match in 2017.

That isn't to say I don't think there should be some type of structure that gives them better home games or that the 6N shouldn't be an open competition either.

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Re: Autumn Nations Cup 2020

Postby victorsra » Sat, 14 Nov 2020, 22:32

kearnc25 wrote:
victorsra wrote:Indeed, the Nations Cup could provide a model for a global expansion to become a rugby version of the UEFA Nations League and replace the tests.


I'd be very surprised if it was anything more than a one and done competition.


The Nations Cup itself is an one year only thing. But I hope it is used as a model.

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Re: Autumn Nations Cup 2020

Postby kearnc25 » Sat, 14 Nov 2020, 22:45

TheStroBro wrote:Generally looking at results, can we stop using Italy's form as the reason for Georgia to be included? If you look back at the last 5+ years of fixtures, their best game v. T1 was the Wales match in 2017.

That isn't to say I don't think there should be some type of structure that gives them better home games or that the 6N shouldn't be an open competition either.



I'd agree with this Italy don't appear to be getting better due to the fact the last ten years the 6 nations as a whole has improved greatly (bar France until the last two years. If the question is whether Georgia is on par with Italy or other Tier One sides then I think its a no but that shouldn't be the question. If the question is should they be added to help grow the game there then its a different matter. Or whether or not the 6 nations and REC should be combined which is another question worth asking again.

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Re: Autumn Nations Cup 2020

Postby kearnc25 » Sat, 14 Nov 2020, 22:46

victorsra wrote: The Nations Cup itself is an one year only thing. But I hope it is used as a model.


I'd disagree, there are too many repeat games from the 6 nations.

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Re: Autumn Nations Cup 2020

Postby fullbackace » Sun, 15 Nov 2020, 01:26

victorsra wrote:Indeed, the Nations Cup could provide a model for a global expansion to become a rugby version of the UEFA Nations League and replace the tests.

Seeing as how the 6N exhausted literally all other options until calling Georgia I see no way they'll do anything like this under normal circumstances.

As for the game, it all went as expected. Our current generation is physically weaker and smaller than our last generation and the tiny improvement in technical aspects isn't enough to fill the gap from the huge drop in the quality of Scrum, Maul, and Line out. Not to mention killer tackles and huge carries. We are literally toothless, all we can do is defend and even there the last generation was better.

We have proper scrum-halves and one okay fly-half which we didn't have before, plus we are slightly better at catching the ball. That's about it for the positives. Oh, and half of our players can speak fluent English and/or French now.
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Re: Autumn Nations Cup 2020

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Sun, 15 Nov 2020, 03:16

I don't think Georgia will be in the Six Nations any time soon, but I think they could be a regular warm up team for a team like England to play before the Six Nations. I think it could be worthwhile for England to play Georgia the weekend before the Six Nations. They offer a decent opposition for England to run some moves against. I think this could be mutually beneficial.

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Re: Autumn Nations Cup 2020

Postby Thomas » Sun, 15 Nov 2020, 10:53

Chester-Donnelly wrote:I don't think Georgia will be in the Six Nations any time soon, but I think they could be a regular warm up team for a team like England to play before the Six Nations. I think it could be worthwhile for England to play Georgia the weekend before the Six Nations. They offer a decent opposition for England to run some moves against. I think this could be mutually beneficial.


I agree, unless there are fundamental changes they will be the warmup act alongside the likes of Romania et.al.

that is the nature of the beast and with CVC Lurking 6N is going to protect their house. Nielsen sports have made some interesting analysis of sports futures and in terms of Rugby Union the Nations Cup is not sustainable while 6N dominates the calendar.

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Re: Autumn Nations Cup 2020

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Sun, 15 Nov 2020, 11:52

Thomas wrote:
Chester-Donnelly wrote:I don't think Georgia will be in the Six Nations any time soon, but I think they could be a regular warm up team for a team like England to play before the Six Nations. I think it could be worthwhile for England to play Georgia the weekend before the Six Nations. They offer a decent opposition for England to run some moves against. I think this could be mutually beneficial.


I agree, unless there are fundamental changes they will be the warmup act alongside the likes of Romania et.al.

that is the nature of the beast and with CVC Lurking 6N is going to protect their house. Nielsen sports have made some interesting analysis of sports futures and in terms of Rugby Union the Nations Cup is not sustainable while 6N dominates the calendar.


A warm up act is a step up from what they've had before though. If they can be a Six Nations warm up act for France or England, and get an autumn test against Italy or Scotland, they have an opportunity to improve and to demonstrate how they have improved, and one day they could be ready to join the main event.

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Re: Autumn Nations Cup 2020

Postby GeoRugby » Sun, 15 Nov 2020, 12:20

As for the game, it all went as expected. Our current generation is physically weaker and smaller than our last generation and the tiny improvement in technical aspects isn't enough to fill the gap from the huge drop in the quality of Scrum, Maul, and Line out. Not to mention killer tackles and huge carries. We are literally toothless, all we can do is defend and even there the last generation was better.


Agreed. As far as just defending though, Georgia is not willing to pass the ball, use their backs against tier1 nations. Useless box kicks will only get you so far. We talk about some promising backs coming up for Georgia, but they are not being utilized during the game except to defend. Georgia needs a coach that will DEMAND to execute the game plan, not just politely ask, because I get the feeling that whatever game plan they may have before the kickoff , players just don't follow it during the game, because the afraid to take some risks.

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Re: Autumn Nations Cup 2020

Postby victorsra » Sun, 15 Nov 2020, 14:01

Well, atm Georgia needs a coaching staff with a long term project...

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Re: Autumn Nations Cup 2020

Postby kearnc25 » Sun, 15 Nov 2020, 15:47

Chester-Donnelly wrote: A warm up act is a step up from what they've had before though. If they can be a Six Nations warm up act for France or England, and get an autumn test against Italy or Scotland, they have an opportunity to improve and to demonstrate how they have improved, and one day they could be ready to join the main event.


It's a good step up as well tbh I wouldn't be of the opinion that they should be added to the 6 nations until they can start beating tier one nations. The reason I'm for it is that they aren't being given opportunities to play these games so if they can get four tier one games a year it would be a massive step up. They probably won't sadly. Romania is even more left in the cold and dying for tier one tests.

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Re: Autumn Nations Cup 2020

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Sun, 15 Nov 2020, 17:09

kearnc25 wrote:
Chester-Donnelly wrote: A warm up act is a step up from what they've had before though. If they can be a Six Nations warm up act for France or England, and get an autumn test against Italy or Scotland, they have an opportunity to improve and to demonstrate how they have improved, and one day they could be ready to join the main event.


It's a good step up as well tbh I wouldn't be of the opinion that they should be added to the 6 nations until they can start beating tier one nations. The reason I'm for it is that they aren't being given opportunities to play these games so if they can get four tier one games a year it would be a massive step up. They probably won't sadly. Romania is even more left in the cold and dying for tier one tests.


Four would be great. I think three would be more likely. For example, Six Nations warm up, one in the summer (something like 3 test tour to South America against Uruguay X2 plus Argentina) and one in the autumn plus 2 against touring tier 2 teams.
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Re: Autumn Nations Cup 2020

Postby victorsra » Sun, 15 Nov 2020, 17:16

A Warm-up match would mean 6 matches in 7 weeks. There won't be more than 7 weeks avaiable in that window, clubs would block it. They already defend the Six Nations played in 6 weeks.

IMO those 2 bye weekend could have matches. It is only a matter to use different players.

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Re: Autumn Nations Cup 2020

Postby victorsra » Sun, 15 Nov 2020, 17:24

If the RWC Qualy properly existed like in FIFA's world and all 6N were required to play it, those 2 weekends could be the RWC Qualy.

Let's say:

A: ENG, ITA, GEO, BEL
B: FRA, SCO, RUS, POR
C: IRE, WAL, SPA, ROM

Fixture:
Weekend 1: 6N Round 1
Weekend 2: 6N Round 2
Weekend 3: RWC Qualy Round 1
Weekend 4: 6N Round 3 + RWC Qualy Round 2 (matches counting for both)
Weekend 5: RWC Qualy Round 3
Weekend 6: 6N Round 4
Weekend 7: 6N Round 5

Very simple.

Once more, there should be a limit of minutes/matches (whatever, up to a technical analysis) played by each player. This means 6N teams would probably opt to field emerging players in the RWC Qualy against REC teams. Which is more than fine.

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Re: Autumn Nations Cup 2020

Postby brules » Sun, 15 Nov 2020, 17:33

The main challenge for Georgia in this tournament is that for the first time they play 5 games in 5 weeks against much better sides. Obviously, you cannot play at 110% of your capabilities each game and you need a lot of depth.

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Re: Autumn Nations Cup 2020

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Sun, 15 Nov 2020, 17:34

victorsra wrote:If the RWC Qualy properly existed like in FIFA's world and all 6N were required to play it, those 2 weekends could be the RWC Qualy.

Let's say:

A: ENG, ITA, GEO, BEL
B: FRA, SCO, RUS, POR
C: IRE, WAL, SPA, ROM

Fixture:
Weekend 1: 6N Round 1
Weekend 2: 6N Round 2
Weekend 3: RWC Qualy Round 1
Weekend 4: 6N Round 3 + RWC Qualy Round 2 (matches counting for both)
Weekend 5: RWC Qualy Round 3
Weekend 6: 6N Round 4
Weekend 7: 6N Round 5

Very simple.

Once more, there should be a limit of minutes/matches (whatever, up to a technical analysis) played by each player. This means 6N teams would probably opt to field emerging players in the RWC Qualy against REC teams. Which is more than fine.


I like the idea of the Six Nations teams being involved in RWC qualifiers. Maybe there is a future for the Autumn Nations Cup, every four years as a RWC qualifier tournament. And the southern hemisphere teams could have their own qualifier tournaments in the same year, with no intercontinental tours that year.

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Re: Autumn Nations Cup 2020

Postby victorsra » Sun, 15 Nov 2020, 17:41

brules wrote:The main challenge for Georgia in this tournament is that for the first time they play 5 games in 5 weeks against much better sides. Obviously, you cannot play at 110% of your capabilities each game and you need a lot of depth.


Georgia would rotate its squad in the REC, definitly. And it is also possible to simply change REC's format to have by weekends in this period (not that complicated and it worths because allow matches with bigger value).

For exemple, REC could become a 2 groups of 3 teams competition. That would mean, for exemple, matches only on Weekends 1, 4 (doubling with RWCQ) and 7 and a big final between group champions in July. Relegation playoffs also July with 3rds playing RET's Champion and Runners up (Ranking defining the draw maybe). This keeps all REC teams playing 5 matches (+ 2 byes) in February/March :)

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