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Autumn Nations Cup 2020

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Re: Autumn Nations Cup 2020

Postby SHIZZZO » Mon, 30 Nov 2020, 08:11

A best game we have played so far, you can see that they have improved quite a lot, Ref was surprisingly goodm well at least this is what I think. On the downside, so many lost lineouts come ooon, we could have easily gotten more points if we did not make those stupid mistakes.
This tournament clearly showed what consistent exposure to T1 games will improve Georgia quite a lot.
I know everyone is tired of comparing us an Italy, but we have better combined score against England, Wales and Ireland this year, Italy: 22-126 and Georgia: 10-81
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Re: Autumn Nations Cup 2020

Postby Armchair Fan » Mon, 30 Nov 2020, 09:22

Don't forget Scotland...

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Re: Autumn Nations Cup 2020

Postby ficcp » Mon, 30 Nov 2020, 12:59

Canalina wrote:Agree, I don't think they were sparing energies; they would have been really happy to defeat France and I'm pretty sure they were not thinking to Wales. Unfortunately we have not the players (a part Polledri, who has not been raised in Italy) to make the difference against the big teams. I'd like to see Italy play more games with the T2 teams, just to have some more wins and to see more tries, but probably that kind of match is not economically useful and maybe there's also a sort of fear by our federation that a loss against a T2 could make our T1 status even more trembling


Didn´t you use ITALIA A to play against T 2 countries in the past (against Madagascar for example)? If you do it, you can enlarge the base of players with international (not top level) exposure without any risk in the ranking.

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Re: Autumn Nations Cup 2020

Postby victorsra » Mon, 30 Nov 2020, 16:15

They played the REC (Fira Trophy that time) until 1997. Their 20th century history is basicaly playing T2s.

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Re: Autumn Nations Cup 2020

Postby Canalina » Mon, 30 Nov 2020, 16:57

According to news from few months ago, the Italian Federation was planning to give more stages and more games to "Italia Emergenti" select, that is basically the new "Italia A". But then covid arrived.
So, yes, a revamp of the Azzurri second tier select is on the plans, but I don't know which kind of opponents the Federation was thinking to.
By the way, if I'm not wrong against Madagascar we fielded a full national team, not an "A" select

On a side note, tonite Zebre play in Munster with seven players (four on the field, three on the bench) from Peroni Top10, the national championship. It will be interesting to see if they can handle the level

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Re: Autumn Nations Cup 2020

Postby ficcp » Mon, 30 Nov 2020, 18:34

You are right respect the matches during thr 70s and 80s, was the full national team. I think that a good international program for Italia Emergenti would increase the selection possibilities for La Nazionale.

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Re: Autumn Nations Cup 2020

Postby kearnc25 » Wed, 02 Dec 2020, 12:09

SHIZZZO wrote: This tournament clearly showed what consistent exposure to T1 games will improve Georgia quite a lot.
I know everyone is tired of comparing us an Italy, but we have better combined score against England, Wales and Ireland this year, Italy: 22-126 and Georgia: 10-81


Italy dropped off a lot in their games but I felt the played much better overall than the Georgians. The Georgian attack is non existent and the didn't threaten in any game really. One try against a bad Irish side doesn't help them compare favourable to Italy.

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Re: Autumn Nations Cup 2020

Postby Higgik » Wed, 02 Dec 2020, 20:34

Would live this event to happen every 4 years the year after a RWC.
Just make it a European only or at mist a Euro Africa Comp.

If the calendar was reshaped to have the June and Nov matches played in one block in Sept and Oct, then it could be extended to 10 teams playing over 7 weeks.
The teams could be 6N plus SA and the next top 3 ranked teams in Europe or Africa.
Play group matches home or away, with play offs in single country.

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Re: Autumn Nations Cup 2020

Postby Canalina » Thu, 03 Dec 2020, 07:18

If Georgia defeated Fiji with a gap of 16 or more points, they would overcome the fijians in the world ranking (if I calculated correctly).
Anyway I can't see that result coming; all in all I see Fiji as slightly favored

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Re: Autumn Nations Cup 2020

Postby datodato » Thu, 03 Dec 2020, 08:59

If you look at their team and the last match the two teams played, it is pretty clear that Fiji should be a huge favourite.

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Re: Autumn Nations Cup 2020

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Thu, 03 Dec 2020, 10:39

Georgia should be favourites. They have had plenty of practice playing together. This is their chance to show they are the top tier 2 team, or not.

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Re: Autumn Nations Cup 2020

Postby SHIZZZO » Thu, 03 Dec 2020, 10:42

kearnc25 wrote:
SHIZZZO wrote: This tournament clearly showed what consistent exposure to T1 games will improve Georgia quite a lot.
I know everyone is tired of comparing us an Italy, but we have better combined score against England, Wales and Ireland this year, Italy: 22-126 and Georgia: 10-81


Italy dropped off a lot in their games but I felt the played much better overall than the Georgians. The Georgian attack is non existent and the didn't threaten in any game really. One try against a bad Irish side doesn't help them compare favourable to Italy.


I think you missed my point, Italy is still a better team at this point of time compared to Georgia, but there is a big BUT in there, Georgia showed they can improve and given the same level of exposure and opportunities as Italy, results would be at least on par if not better.
Also, when we lost against the Irish team in Dublin back in 2014 everyone was saying we were steamrolled by the second string Irish team, now when the score line is much better, suddenly the Irish team became bad. Anyways in order to threaten in the attack you need the games like this, if we had not lost so many lineouts in the opposing half or made stupid mistakes, score would be way more different, this comes with experience, something we lack at this level.
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Re: Autumn Nations Cup 2020

Postby GeoRugby » Thu, 03 Dec 2020, 11:07

As far as I know, Fiji have all their best players available, but Georgia is better "oiled" now. Georgia should have an advantage, but this is Fiji we're talking about. If Georgia wants to win it their scrum needs to dominate the opposition and defense needs to be even better than last week. Keeping the ball and not kicking it away every chance thy get will be huge.

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Re: Autumn Nations Cup 2020

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Thu, 03 Dec 2020, 11:11

GeoRugby wrote:As far as I know, Fiji have all their best players available, but Georgia is better "oiled" now. Georgia should have an advantage, but this is Fiji we're talking about. If Georgia wants to win it their scrum needs to dominate the opposition and defense needs to be even better than last week. Keeping the ball and not kicking it away every chance thy get will be huge.


Fiji can definitely lose this. This could be similar to the Fiji vs Uruguay world cup game, where a team defeated a group of very talented individuals.

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Re: Autumn Nations Cup 2020

Postby GeoRugby » Thu, 03 Dec 2020, 12:32

Chester-Donnelly wrote:
GeoRugby wrote:As far as I know, Fiji have all their best players available, but Georgia is better "oiled" now. Georgia should have an advantage, but this is Fiji we're talking about. If Georgia wants to win it their scrum needs to dominate the opposition and defense needs to be even better than last week. Keeping the ball and not kicking it away every chance thy get will be huge.


Fiji can definitely lose this. This could be similar to the Fiji vs Uruguay world cup game, where a team defeated a group of very talented individuals.


Except now, Nadolo, Botia, Radradra and Tuisova are all in the starting line up against Georgia. These 4 alone can win the game for Fiji. I hope Maisashvili has a smart game plan.

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Re: Autumn Nations Cup 2020

Postby vino_93 » Thu, 03 Dec 2020, 13:13

SHIZZZO wrote:
kearnc25 wrote:
SHIZZZO wrote: This tournament clearly showed what consistent exposure to T1 games will improve Georgia quite a lot.
I know everyone is tired of comparing us an Italy, but we have better combined score against England, Wales and Ireland this year, Italy: 22-126 and Georgia: 10-81


Italy dropped off a lot in their games but I felt the played much better overall than the Georgians. The Georgian attack is non existent and the didn't threaten in any game really. One try against a bad Irish side doesn't help them compare favourable to Italy.


I think you missed my point, Italy is still a better team at this point of time compared to Georgia, but there is a big BUT in there, Georgia showed they can improve and given the same level of exposure and opportunities as Italy, results would be at least on par if not better.
Also, when we lost against the Irish team in Dublin back in 2014 everyone was saying we were steamrolled by the second string Irish team, now when the score line is much better, suddenly the Irish team became bad. Anyways in order to threaten in the attack you need the games like this, if we had not lost so many lineouts in the opposing half or made stupid mistakes, score would be way more different, this comes with experience, something we lack at this level.


5 years is a lot of time ... Irish wasn't good this autumn. Many great players aren't here anymore, many newcomers came in. Even first team isn't very good anyway. Their games against France or Wales weren't good at all. They are on a new circle, and to be honest that's the first time since a long time for them there's quite a rupture, with many key players changing.

All in all, we haven't seen great rugby this autumn, neither North or South ... that's the first year after RWC. That's never really good. Teams are lacking of experience together, new players are tested, new staffs are put in place. That will improve little by little, being really good in one or two seasons.

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Re: Autumn Nations Cup 2020

Postby BigG » Thu, 03 Dec 2020, 13:51

Fiji:
15 Kini Murimurivalu, 14 Josua Tuisova, 13 Semi Radradra (c), 12 Levani Botia 11 Nemani Nadolo, 10 Ben Volavola, 9 Frank Lomani, 8 Albert Tuisue, 7 Mesulame Kunavula, 6 Johnny Dyer, 5 Temo Mayanavanu, 4 Tevita Ratuva, 3 Mesake Doge, 2 Samuel Matavesi, 1 Peni Ravai
Replacements: 16 Tevita Ikanivere, 17 Haereiti Hetet, 18 Samuela Tawake, 19 Chris Minimbi, 20 Manueli Ratuniyarawa, 21 Simione Kuruvoli, 22 Seru Vularika, 23 Waisea Nayacalevu

GEORGIA SQUAD: https://img.forum.ge/JNijjiL7iJULp.jpg

I think Fiji should win. In the meantime there are some factors which may affect an outcome of the game. Fiji was in quarantine, i.e. they had no practice, on the other hand Georgia should be physically overwhelmed after 4 games, especially after Ireland.
Also, weather: windy and rainy day in Edinburgh.
Decisive factor: Scrummage. If Georgia looses in that component, take they do not have a single chance.

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Re: Autumn Nations Cup 2020

Postby Bogdan_DC » Thu, 03 Dec 2020, 15:13

BigG wrote:Decisive factor: Scrummage. If Georgia looses in that component, take they do not have a single chance.

Do you mean Reffing at scrum time?
In the last 3-4 years it's start to looks like a lotery. Doesnt mean if you are stronger or better, refs will share penalties.

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Re: Autumn Nations Cup 2020

Postby BigG » Thu, 03 Dec 2020, 15:45

Bogdan_DC wrote:
BigG wrote:Decisive factor: Scrummage. If Georgia looses in that component, take they do not have a single chance.

Do you mean Reffing at scrum time?
In the last 3-4 years it's start to looks like a lotery. Doesnt mean if you are stronger or better, refs will share penalties.


I mean in general.
For example we lost scrummage to Scotland.
That should not happen in coming game.

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Re: Autumn Nations Cup 2020

Postby FLIDTA RISXVA » Fri, 04 Dec 2020, 08:59


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Re: Autumn Nations Cup 2020

Postby kearnc25 » Sat, 05 Dec 2020, 13:29

SHIZZZO wrote:
kearnc25 wrote:
SHIZZZO wrote: This tournament clearly showed what consistent exposure to T1 games will improve Georgia quite a lot.
I know everyone is tired of comparing us an Italy, but we have better combined score against England, Wales and Ireland this year, Italy: 22-126 and Georgia: 10-81


Italy dropped off a lot in their games but I felt the played much better overall than the Georgians. The Georgian attack is non existent and the didn't threaten in any game really. One try against a bad Irish side doesn't help them compare favourable to Italy.


I think you missed my point, Italy is still a better team at this point of time compared to Georgia, but there is a big BUT in there, Georgia showed they can improve and given the same level of exposure and opportunities as Italy, results would be at least on par if not better.
Also, when we lost against the Irish team in Dublin back in 2014 everyone was saying we were steamrolled by the second string Irish team, now when the score line is much better, suddenly the Irish team became bad. Anyways in order to threaten in the attack you need the games like this, if we had not lost so many lineouts in the opposing half or made stupid mistakes, score would be way more different, this comes with experience, something we lack at this level.



I get your point I just disagree with it. Georgia haven't improved they are worse than they were in 2015. Saying that its 'suddenly the Irish team became bad' as if its made up to dismiss Georgia is ridiculous the 2014 Irish team won the 6 nations hammered South Africa and beat Australia. We are comfortably third place in the 6 nations now after crashing out of another world cup in the quarter finals and can't find any attacking rhythm. To act like its disingenuous to say that Irish team is worse is an odd argument.

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Re: Autumn Nations Cup 2020

Postby kearnc25 » Sat, 05 Dec 2020, 13:39

So that was easily the most entertaining game of the tournament by far. Georgians showed a lot of heart not to drop the heads when going 38-7 down. Georgian 23,6 and 7 where standouts. Fiji are class.

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Re: Autumn Nations Cup 2020

Postby GeoRugby » Sat, 05 Dec 2020, 14:04

Fiji wins 38-24. I think Fiji would have been first in their group if they played. World class. Georgia lost this game in first 15 minutes, but showed heart in the closing moments. I don't see this team getting better with the current coach. They need better coach in every department. Niniashvili needs more game time. Matiashvili the opposite. I am hoping that Georgian franchise in Curry Cup first division will be able to play next year. This is so important.

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Re: Autumn Nations Cup 2020

Postby datodato » Sat, 05 Dec 2020, 15:14

The game is so rusty at the moment and with all the talk about kicking etc. I think it is very easy to miss how incredibly horrific the refereeing has been these past weeks, it is a mixture of lottery and inconsistency. This also goes for the Tri Nations, but especially for the Autumn Cup. The sport is in a bad spot, I cannot imagine someone watching a game of the Autumn Nations Cup and becoming a Rugby fan but even worse - the officiating and the over-inflated rule book is turning off a lot of fans I guess. So many penalties are random in the scrum and in the breakdown, coming down also to the fact that not a single high class referee has played the game as a forward I guess. For example when the Ref penalised Fiji for not using the ball for more than 5 seconds - well nobody in the game before or after that did it. Also going off the feet in the ruck is kind of real opportunity to give penalties to teams the ref liked more that morning. It is incredibly weird that referees have a huge influence on the game (a penalty will give you basicly a try scoring opportunity or get you out of one 50m+) but at the same time the rules are unclear, interpretable and randomly used at times.

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Re: Autumn Nations Cup 2020

Postby BigG » Sat, 05 Dec 2020, 15:23

In general, it is hard to underestimate an importance of the tournament for Georgian team, especially for those players who are going to take part in next RWC(s). These guys are able to progress and have good results, however there are several conditions to be met.
We need good governance (GRU), skilled coaching staff, franchise and more games with T1.

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