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Rugby Europe International Championships 2020-2021

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Re: Rugby Europe International Championships 2020-2021

Postby GeoRugby » Sun, 28 Mar 2021, 15:02

Few things that Id like to see for Georgia. Hooker position needs more depth. It seems that for different reasons(injuries/unavailability), couple of young Georgian french based hookers hardly getting chance to play for a national team. So take promising ones from Didi10, work with them and bring them up to national team level. I respect Mamukashvili as a player, but this position needs young blood. Also do not allow Khmaladze anywhere near the ball when its time to kick the ball in touch for penalty. I lost count how many times he messes those kicks. An amateur could do a better job than him. He should only be n the team as fullback sub, with young Niniashvili coming up.

Scrum was great for Georgia today (before the red card), and even after that, they held their own. Not bad. Defensive maul wasnt good, but they were man short, so it wasn't easy in this component. I think Babunashvili is a good up and coming fly-half. Its great that there is good depth there. Should Aprasidze be first choice number 9 from now on? Lot of Georgian fans feel that way. He is getting better and better. Good to see, specially with Lobjanidze missing for coupe of games now. Gela was amazing today. I have to mention Saghinadze and Tabutsadze as well. They have become key players for Georgia.

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Re: Rugby Europe International Championships 2020-2021

Postby CraigChalmers » Sun, 28 Mar 2021, 15:53

Bruce_ma_goose wrote:Amazing in a match between Georgia and Romania to hear the commentator announce a penalty for Russia. :(


Commentary was rather poor in general today - I lost count of the number of times they got confused between the teams (although they usually did correct themselves), there was some chat towards the end that sounded like they were completely unaware this competition isn't a new initiative, and then clearly didn't know that the attacking bonus point is for 3 tries more than your opponent, and therefore that Georgia could not gain a bonus with the final play. That last point is rather fundamental to the commentators job, and they should really know this!

I know somebody was criticising the team from the Portugal v Spain game earlier, but they were much better than today IMO. They at least knew how the tournament works, and Rory Lawson is I think the only member of the English comms team who actually has some experience of playing against some of the sides in the championship (having played v Portugal in 2007 and Georgia in 2011 - although somehow managed to play no part against Romania at either world cup..)

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Re: Rugby Europe International Championships 2020-2021

Postby ScottishPuma » Sun, 28 Mar 2021, 16:02

I was impressed with Georgia today, especially their game management after going down to 14 men.

Their backs are much improved too, impressive with ball in hand whilst they have maintained their forward grunt.

I honestly think they would beat Italy just now, and would love to see this match happen soon.

The race for Europe 2 and 3 is incredibly exciting, completely unpredictable, and assuming Belgium come through the play-off, I'm sure they could yet determine the outcome, given their results in recent tournaments, if not join the race itself.

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Re: Rugby Europe International Championships 2020-2021

Postby FLIDTA RISXVA » Sun, 28 Mar 2021, 16:16

if ANYBODY needs until RE sorts it out -- in KA (easily google-translated)

WEB LIVE >> http://vue.ge/OQMEBI/NIKO/2021_0328_REC_4_GEO-ROM.htm
CLASSIC >> http://vue.ge/2020-2021/EVROPA/4-OQMEBI.htm

:::

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An educated [female] IDIOT once wrote it as T'bilisi,
and another read it out as Tibilisi

But this happened long time ago -- Surprised it revived in 2021

:::

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Re: Rugby Europe International Championships 2020-2021

Postby BigG » Sun, 28 Mar 2021, 17:30

I am a bit surprised not finding names of Gigashvili and Gigauri in the "list" of best payers.
I believe they made a huge job in building this victory.
It is great we won, however problems are still there. I believe next year Georgia will perform much better.
Last edited by BigG on Sun, 28 Mar 2021, 18:22, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Rugby Europe International Championships 2020-2021

Postby Canalina » Sun, 28 Mar 2021, 17:42

I wanted to ask if there were already hints about the rest of the calendar but searching a bit I saw that the whole calendar is already fixed, even if TBC

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Re: Rugby Europe International Championships 2020-2021

Postby NedRugby » Sun, 28 Mar 2021, 18:21

We now have a date for the playoff between Belgium and the Netherlands - 29th May. Fingers crossed that there will be spectators allowed by then.

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Re: Rugby Europe International Championships 2020-2021

Postby amz » Sun, 28 Mar 2021, 20:08

Well, a better performance for Romania compared with last year and kept close of Georgia for most of the game. Two easy tries in second half that could have been stopped by a more experienced team sealed the fate of the game

I think the main issue for Oaks was the game plan being affected by early exit of probably their best backs and attack force, Melinte and Onutu. Robinson knew the back three scored every game and they're most dangerous asset so that is why he planned the game with two fly-halves (Plai and Boldor at 10). When Vlaicu entered in Onutu's place the entire backline was affected as he can't cover back three. It was difficult to asses what they played, I've seen in some occasions Plai being in fullback role. With that mismatch, it was hard to execute anything with pace, just not quite fast enough from 9-12; sometimes they nearly gave a pass but got caught. Our depth there was tested as 3 starters from last RECs (Fonovai, Simionescu, Zaharia) were out injured so Popoaia had to step in. I get he's talented but he played his first pro games in September/October 2020 and imo he's now too inexperienced for such a game. With all that he made a nice phase with a beautiful offload, too bad Chirica stumbled from accidental obstruction of Georgian defender. He scored some tries in SuperLiga and shows promise so hopefully this experience in 3 REC games will help him to develop faster.

So with 3 starters out early due to injuries (Savin -> knee, Onutu, Melinte -> didn't passed HIA) and plan pretty much impossible to be executed due to lack of suitable players, the team didn't adapt and here I think lies the outcome of the game. Chirica issues with ankle also an issue during the game and perhaps Robinson should have look into depth of the team, he had 50 players in training for REC. Sure, there were many injuries but we have to be prepared for this.

I think we gained some players who may improve. Cojocaru (HK), despite the blunder from Russia game was pretty good showing good defensive play and he occasionally jackals some balls and he grew from game to game. Bucur (UB) coming back after a horrific injury last year had a solid performance, imo he's a solution at center. He's not flashy but he's an intelligent and hard working player. Boboc, at his second cap showed he can be an option in backrow, he was very active. in other matches Rupanu (SH) did well vs Portugal, the pressure on Os Lobos was higher when he entered and Ser (FK) vs Russia had a good game, too bad he injured himself so early but I think he's captain material, watch for this one. Iftimiciuc (LK) also got some game time and he wasn't bad at all, he moved to France so I hope to see more from him.

There are some positives to be taken from this REC

- maul was good, probably the best in competition
- back three may be very dangerous especially if we will find ways to unleash it more often.
- there is depth in second row and backrow
- team showed character and cohesion being able to fight back from being behind on score board in many occasions
- we gained captain, Gorin, I think he was very important and it was obvious the young ones like him

Cons:

- lineout is very inconsistent although we have jumpers...lot of work should be put here and maybe give a chance to other hookers like Butnariu and Bardasu
- centers are an issue. sure Maliepo, Fercu were missed and hopefully we will have them back next year but the alternatives are mediocre or too old (e.g. Vlaicu). I don't think Gontineac (Clermont academy) will be soon ready to be a starter, probably not for next year.
- Boldor doesn't find his place. I like the idea to play him at 12 but he have to put more effort into it. Plai was better with assists and tactical kicking
- scrum is inconsistent and imo other players should have a chance as well; yet there were improvements compared with last year.
- no depth in frontrow

What I want to see is chances for some players who are on fringe; it's good we play young players and I think one of the failure of Howells was that he introduced too few young players.

Congrats to Georgia, well played in 14, gutsy move to substitute a flanker but suited their game plan. They improved their handling from match to match and they were better in contact, gained it constantly due to physicality. Aprasidze was paramount for this win, very clever player and I know I raised some eyebrows when I said he's better than Lobzhanidze but I think he'll soon be uncontested starter.

Overall Oaks lifted their game today imo, but away to Georgia just didn't have enough good moments. However, I think is an improvement we started to talk about backs quality and open expansive play in a Georgia - Romania game as this used to be a forwards affair.

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Re: Rugby Europe International Championships 2020-2021

Postby Canalina » Mon, 29 Mar 2021, 04:40

Highlights of the two round IV games (10' and 7', maybe they should compact them more)




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Re: Rugby Europe International Championships 2020-2021

Postby Scoob » Mon, 29 Mar 2021, 06:14

Individually this was Georgias best performance,save the red card. As a team they played better against Russia.

Niniashvili and Tabutsadze are definite best in there positions. The other wing is still up for grabs. Todua has played quite well,but wont break a game open against better opposition.
Tapladze,Svanidze,Modebadze,Kokhadze,Iluridze the spot is open for who wants it the most. The centres have established themselves, Sharikadze leads by example , Kvesiladze still developing,needs to control ball in contact better.Down the track Giorgi Kuparadze at 12 as a roughy.or Tapladze if they can find his best position.
Aprasidze,Abzhandadze pick themselves. Babunashvili is solid replacement,but Matkava will overtake him in time i think.
Loose forwards have good depth once injured players return.
Locks are improving and the best they have. Young lock from Bayonne is very promising for the future,tall and can move.
Props,no problem there. Hookers Vano Karkadze when back from injury is worth a try. Alkhazashvili has gone off the radar,needs more game time.

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Re: Rugby Europe International Championships 2020-2021

Postby amz » Mon, 29 Mar 2021, 06:24

Having watched the match again, I am staring to Mamukashvili foul play and I wonder how a player with his experience did that. Maybe it was a deliberate strategy to try to take out opposition's best players? He can't possibly claim that being reckless, he had enough time to see it coming, to arm the tackle, Melinte didn't lowered his body position etc...Also the phase where Saginashvili gave the ball to Gigashvili for 2nd Georgian try should have been checked by ref for a forward pass. It was marginal but forward. . For Oaks, imo the number of given away penalties is decreasing, they improved their discipline with every game. Overall good refereeing, can't complain.

Oaks have to blame themselves for losing a defensive bp and allowing Spain to gain one in Bucharest. The race for 2nd place is far from over and although Spanish fans are complaining about the schedule the break is coming at a good moment for them when they are in disarray, they have time to re-organize and get the maximum number of points from Russia and Belgium/Netherlands. Portugal bounced back and even if they lost 2 matches home they can pose a threat for anyone.

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Re: Rugby Europe International Championships 2020-2021

Postby Bogdan_DC » Mon, 29 Mar 2021, 08:11

The tournament is wide open for 2nd&3rd place. Romania looked hopeless last 15 minutes with one man advantage. That's bad for us.

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Re: Rugby Europe International Championships 2020-2021

Postby BigG » Mon, 29 Mar 2021, 09:13

amz wrote:Having watched the match again, I am staring to Mamukashvili foul play and I wonder how a player with his experience did that. Maybe it was a deliberate strategy to try to take out opposition's best players? He can't possibly claim that being reckless, he had enough time to see it coming, to arm the tackle, Melinte didn't lowered his body position etc...Also the phase where Saginashvili gave the ball to Gigashvili for 2nd Georgian try should have been checked by ref for a forward pass. It was marginal but forward. . For Oaks, imo the number of given away penalties is decreasing, they improved their discipline with every game. Overall good refereeing, can't complain.

Oaks have to blame themselves for losing a defensive bp and allowing Spain to gain one in Bucharest. The race for 2nd place is far from over and although Spanish fans are complaining about the schedule the break is coming at a good moment for them when they are in disarray, they have time to re-organize and get the maximum number of points from Russia and Belgium/Netherlands. Portugal bounced back and even if they lost 2 matches home they can pose a threat for anyone.


I watched the mentioned try many times - no forward play.
However, I don't think refereeing was good, furthermore it was terrible.

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Re: Rugby Europe International Championships 2020-2021

Postby Canalina » Mon, 29 Mar 2021, 09:21

Belgian Sportkipik thinks that REC "est encore monté d’un cran !", "has made an other step up"

https://www.sportkipik.be/vi-nations-b- ... que-ou-les

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Re: Rugby Europe International Championships 2020-2021

Postby amz » Mon, 29 Mar 2021, 09:43

BigG wrote:I watched the mentioned try many times - no forward play.
However, I don't think refereeing was good, furthermore it was terrible.


Yes, you can't say it's clear and obvious from the angles of the TV.

Care to share your thoughts why the ref was terrible? I saw Lelos were hands in the air asking for yellow at every foul play but really, there was no situation warranting an yellow.

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Re: Rugby Europe International Championships 2020-2021

Postby Armchair Fan » Mon, 29 Mar 2021, 10:30

amz wrote:Having watched the match again, I am staring to Mamukashvili foul play and I wonder how a player with his experience did that. Maybe it was a deliberate strategy to try to take out opposition's best players? He can't possibly claim that being reckless, he had enough time to see it coming, to arm the tackle, Melinte didn't lowered his body position etc...Also the phase where Saginashvili gave the ball to Gigashvili for 2nd Georgian try should have been checked by ref for a forward pass. It was marginal but forward. . For Oaks, imo the number of given away penalties is decreasing, they improved their discipline with every game. Overall good refereeing, can't complain.

Oaks have to blame themselves for losing a defensive bp and allowing Spain to gain one in Bucharest. The race for 2nd place is far from over and although Spanish fans are complaining about the schedule the break is coming at a good moment for them when they are in disarray, they have time to re-organize and get the maximum number of points from Russia and Belgium/Netherlands. Portugal bounced back and even if they lost 2 matches home they can pose a threat for anyone.

I do agree that Georgia sometimes goes the Pacific Islands' way and physically bully opposition in REC, knowing they are stronger overall and have bigger depth. As long as referees allow it (and in this case they rightly punished them), well, it's a strategy like any other. Not that it will help them against stronger opposition, but it's legit.

Regarding Spain, trust me, it's over. Domestic climate will only go worse. We've seen players start to complain about FER and staff. And even if we managed to reorganise for July, how likely it is to see this Spanish side win six straight REC games?

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Re: Rugby Europe International Championships 2020-2021

Postby Bogdan_DC » Mon, 29 Mar 2021, 11:01

I don't agree, nothing wrong with Georgia approach. I even liked the way the game was played, old school rugby, they had a real war on the pitch, only respect after it. I saw lot of pictures with players together after the game sharing a word. That's cool.

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Re: Rugby Europe International Championships 2020-2021

Postby BigG » Mon, 29 Mar 2021, 11:15

amz wrote:
BigG wrote:I watched the mentioned try many times - no forward play.
However, I don't think refereeing was good, furthermore it was terrible.


Yes, you can't say it's clear and obvious from the angles of the TV.

Care to share your thoughts why the ref was terrible? I saw Lelos were hands in the air asking for yellow at every foul play but really, there was no situation warranting an yellow.


You say four TV angeles should not be counted. Tell me what angels you are talking about.

Terrible refereeing (few examples):
The very first try - first of all it was delayed penalty try. Ok with that, where was yellow card?
No question about red card, however before penalty Melinte twice touched bounce. None of referees noticed that? ha, ha, ha
The last scrummage -Georgia was penalized. It was result of referee's fantasy.
Rucks - It hard to believe that in all penalty cases Georgians should be blamed.
Twice he missed obvious things: a right place of line-out (difference was about 15 meters) and knock on.

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Re: Rugby Europe International Championships 2020-2021

Postby amz » Mon, 29 Mar 2021, 11:51

BigG wrote:Terrible refereeing (few examples):
The very first try - first of all it was delayed penalty try. Ok with that, where was yellow card?


In other matches Oaks' opponents (Madrid 2018) collapsed the scrum many more times (about 10 minutes if not more). no penalty try, no yellow. I think it was a correct decision about the yellow, probably a bit rushed for the penalty try.

BigG wrote:No question about red card, however before penalty Melinte twice touched bounce. None of referees noticed that? ha, ha, ha


I am not sure what you are trying to say.

That doesn't have anything to do with the red card, it was for ref to make the call and probably, if your captain would have thought, in case of a try that could have been checked if it can be awarded or not, touching the touch being a reason to not award it.

Even if the touch judge would have raised the flag, game wouldn't have been stopped as fast to prevent Georgian hooker hit. So what's you point? Foul play can be made even when game is stopped.

BigG wrote:The last scrummage -Georgia was penalized. It was result of referee's fantasy.


I think is pretty obvious
https://youtu.be/QnJZOk36NDQ?t=6835

first they pushed early
second is your hooker get up first

BigG wrote:Rucks - It hard to believe that in all penalty cases Georgians should be blamed.


That's a general statement that doesn't make any sense. Are you worried he whistled too many Georgian infringements?

BigG wrote:Twice he missed obvious things: a right place of line-out (difference was about 15 meters) and knock on.


He probably missed more such small things like a flat pass being forward but these can be missed by any ref.

BigG wrote:You say four TV angeles should not be counted. Tell me what angels you are talking about.


I said it is not clear and obvious because no camera is placed in a good position.

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Re: Rugby Europe International Championships 2020-2021

Postby Vova12 » Mon, 29 Mar 2021, 12:51

It is necessary to oblige Georgia to play in Champ without one player. We must definitely win vote! :D
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Re: Rugby Europe International Championships 2020-2021

Postby GeoRugby » Mon, 29 Mar 2021, 15:01

I do agree that Georgia sometimes goes the Pacific Islands' way and physically bully opposition in REC, knowing they are stronger overall and have bigger depth. As long as referees allow it (and in this case they rightly punished them), well, it's a strategy like any other. Not that it will help them against stronger opposition, but it's legit.


Are you suggesting that Georgian player intentionally decided to get a red card, because there is more depth? There is no depth in Georgia in Hooker position. Mamukashvilis red card sucked all life out of Georgia for a bit and allowed Romania to get back into the game. To suggest that it was intentional red card is silly to say the least.

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Re: Rugby Europe International Championships 2020-2021

Postby Armchair Fan » Mon, 29 Mar 2021, 15:31

I'm suggesting that Georgia knows perfectly that it can intimidate any of its REC opposition by being a bit more aggressive because it has more than enough manpower both in the bench and in the extended squad, not that Mamukashvili intended to kill somebody on purpose. Potential gains by leaving rivals scared/bruised/injured offset the possible punishment. Moreover in this case Mamukashvili is without a club if I'm not mistaken, so what does he lose by taking the risk? It can't be a coincidence that two of the three red cards of the tournament are by unattached players.

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Re: Rugby Europe International Championships 2020-2021

Postby GeoRugby » Mon, 29 Mar 2021, 16:05

Armchair Fan wrote:I'm suggesting that Georgia knows perfectly that it can intimidate any of its REC opposition by being a bit more aggressive because it has more than enough manpower both in the bench and in the extended squad, not that Mamukashvili intended to kill somebody on purpose. Potential gains by leaving rivals scared/bruised/injured offset the possible punishment. Moreover in this case Mamukashvili is without a club if I'm not mistaken, so what does he lose by taking the risk? It can't be a coincidence that two of the three red cards of the tournament are by unattached players.


I'm suggesting that Georgia knows perfectly that it can intimidate any of its REC opposition by being a bit more aggressive because it has more than enough manpower both in the bench and in the extended squad, not that Mamukashvili intended to kill somebody on purpose.


Being a bit aggressive is perfectly fine. Its rugby after all. But what does "intimidate" mean? Thank you for clarifying that Mamukashvili didn't intend to "kill someone on purpose" by the way.

Moreover in this case Mamukashvili is without a club if I'm not mistaken, so what does he lose by taking the risk?


You don't even begin to understand what it means for a Georgian player to put on a Lelos shirt, do you? It is really not the same as a French citizen putting on a shirt of Spain.

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Re: Rugby Europe International Championships 2020-2021

Postby Armchair Fan » Mon, 29 Mar 2021, 16:10

GeoRugby wrote:But what does "intimidate" mean?

As per Cambridge Dictionary: to frighten or threaten someone, usually in order to persuade them to do something that you want them to do.

Yes, I think this is what someone aims to by being aggressive on the pitch.

GeoRugby wrote:You don't even begin to understand what it means for a Georgian player to put on a Lelos shirt, do you? It is really not the same as a French citizen putting on a shirt of Spain.

Well, he served his purpose. Considering how big a liability Mamukashvili has been in this REC, I'd say getting rid of one of the few Romanian players able to create danger in exchange for him leaving the field was quite a decent deal for Lelos.

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Re: Rugby Europe International Championships 2020-2021

Postby GeoRugby » Mon, 29 Mar 2021, 16:22

As per Cambridge Dictionary: to frighten or threaten someone, usually in order to persuade them to do something that you want them to do.


How does this apply to Georgia?

Well, he served his purpose. Considering how big a liability Mamukashvili has been in this REC, I'd say getting rid of one of the few Romanian players able to create danger in exchange for him leaving the field was quite a decent deal for Lelos.


He has been a liability, but that doesn't mean he intentionally decided to take a red card or injure another player. Before Mamukashvi expulsion, Georgia were on their way to a comfortable win. They wanted to dedicate this home win to fallen Georgian rugby player and they almost failed due to being man down. Your suggestions are purely speculative and ignorant.

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