Tier 2 & 3 Rugby Forum

2023 Draw, Thoughts?

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Re: 2023 Draw, Thoughts?

Postby Raven » Wed, 16 Dec 2020, 18:03

victorsra wrote:I prefere 6 groups of 4. It works for UEFA and worked once for FIFA. Not perfect, but easier.

Exactly.

I suppose it's 2 more years to know if we'll have a 24 world cup in 2027 though right? Supposedly when the host is announced in May of 2022...

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Re: 2023 Draw, Thoughts?

Postby CraigChalmers » Wed, 16 Dec 2020, 19:20

The Do wrote:I hate the idea that in a 6 pools x 4 teams, some teams who finished 3rd in their pool advance but others in the same situation don’t. Say the ABs have won their “tough” match out of the 3 pool games, who is to say that they will not rest all of their star players knowing a one point win is enough instead of racking up 60 point on say Namibia. Great for Namibia but what about say, Tonga. They are in another group and their opponents decided to not take it easy giving them a hiding. How is that fair if it goes to for and against over different pools? How is it fair that a different pool’s results which you have no direct input to can decide whether you progress or not. It needs to be all pool’s top 2 etc.


I normally agree with this view, but it bothers me less when it's 3rd place sides it affects. Want to be sure of your place in the Round of 16? win 2 of your games and make sure you finish 2nd at worst. In an ideal world, an extra 2 pools with top 2 going through would be great - but it's not realistic right now.

In reality though, rugby loves a format that may not be entirely fair (has anybody looked at the format being used for this season European cups*? I suspect the pool stages will practically be over by the halfway point, and my team are essentially out because we lost away to the European champions, who then gave us Covid so we will forfeit our easiest game)

RWC (Womens) - 1 / 3 2nd place teams
Champions/Challenge Cup - 3 / 5 2nd place teams
Heinken Cup - 2 / 6 2nd place teams
U20 World Cup - 1 / 3 2nd place teams
Womens Sevens Series - 2 / 3 3rd place sides
European Sevens Series - 2 / 3 3rd place sides

I think 6 pools of 4 and a round of 16 is a fairer format than most of these (and is essentially the same format as the last 2, but scaled up).


*speaking of which, can't believe nobody has suggested 2 pools of 12 where you only play a random selection of sides, with the top 4 going through to quarter finals...

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Re: 2023 Draw, Thoughts?

Postby victorsra » Wed, 16 Dec 2020, 23:01

The thing is rugby has a big advantage regarding the R16. As time between matches is shorter in UEFA Euro, they don't draw the R16 matches with a Ranking system. Usualy fans work with 3 or 4 venues options for their R16, trying to guess where their teams would play. For exemple, the winner of Group A teams of UEFA Europe 2020 will play the R16 in London, tge runners up in Amsterdam, whiole the 3rd placed team can play in either Glasgow or Bucharest: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_2020

In the other hand, the RWC doesn't work with such options. For exemple, the QF in 2019 were groups A vs B ad C vs D, with the same venue for both A vs B (Tokyo) and another one for both C vs D (Oita). However, the RWC has almost a whole week between the end of the groups phase and the R16. If all 8 matches are in 3 venues (let's say, if it is Australia, it could be 2 venues in Sydney + 1 in Brisbane, letting Perth and Melbourne to host QFs). It would be copying UEFA's system, but with a bit more time for fans. Which would mean a Ranking 1-16 could determine the R16 draw.

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Re: 2023 Draw, Thoughts?

Postby thatrugbyguy » Thu, 17 Dec 2020, 08:38

The issue is teams are not guaranteed to finish where organisers think they will. No-one thought England would fail to reach the last 8 in 2015 but everyone went in purchasing tickets knowing it was a possibility. And even if they had made it there would have been no guarantee if it would have been a game at Twickenham. How many All Black fans bought tickets in 2007 for the semi-finals ahead of time? The thing is, most fans will still attend the match they purchased tickets for, some will be able to swap with other fans for tickets and accomodations, others are happy to still go to the game and cheer for whoever the underdog is. No-one travels half a world away only to waste money.

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Re: 2023 Draw, Thoughts?

Postby Canalina » Thu, 17 Dec 2020, 10:07

In the italian forum they purpose a formula inspired by the football World Cup 1982 (almost an holy event in Italy...)
24 teams, six pools with four teams each, two qualified per pool, a second phase with four pools of three teams each, one qualified per pool, semifinals and finals.
It will be 7 games for the finalist teams.
Not a bad format, to me. At least, to be taken into consideration

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Re: 2023 Draw, Thoughts?

Postby thatrugbyguy » Thu, 17 Dec 2020, 10:20

Probably the most logical, the issue is one team has to play twice in a row. That could effectively mean the semi-finalists are already determined before the last round of matches. Uneven rest times too.

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Re: 2023 Draw, Thoughts?

Postby Raven » Thu, 17 Dec 2020, 10:44

Canalina wrote:In the italian forum they purpose a formula inspired by the football World Cup 1982 (almost an holy event in Italy...)
24 teams, six pools with four teams each, two qualified per pool, a second phase with four pools of three teams each, one qualified per pool, semifinals and finals.
It will be 7 games for the finalist teams.
Not a bad format, to me. At least, to be taken into consideration

Never thought of that format, it does have some pros, certainly. It does give an extra game to the 12 teams that made it out of the 1st pool, instead of having some sides eliminated after game 4 in the RWC...
On the other hand, not having some 3rd band sides making it out of the pool phase, kind of (indirectly) places a barrier for most of the teams past the Nr12 in the ranking, but I suppose it's their job to beat a Band 2 side and make it out of the pool so there's some competitiveness there as well.
I guess that the biggest "con" I can think of at first glance is the difference between football and rugby, if logic prevails, the final 4 are probably a more obvious pick once the pools get drafted. Unlike football where a single goal and a more common 'draw' can determine your fate, in rugby today one can assume that bigger teams will put stronger campaigns in a Round Robin, whereas an elimination round is a one-off game to go through where anything can happen.

To be fair, ultimately, the semi finalist spots will probably be occupied by the same old teams anyway with a rare exception on a rare opportunity.

I cannot make up my mind on whether if I like it more or less than a Round of 16 / Quarters. But certainly it could be something interesting.

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Re: 2023 Draw, Thoughts?

Postby jservuk » Thu, 17 Dec 2020, 11:29

Canalina wrote:In the italian forum they purpose a formula inspired by the football World Cup 1982 (almost an holy event in Italy...)
24 teams, six pools with four teams each, two qualified per pool, a second phase with four pools of three teams each, one qualified per pool, semifinals and finals.
It will be 7 games for the finalist teams.
Not a bad format, to me. At least, to be taken into consideration


I understand why this is a revered format in Italy.

Having watched 1982 avidly I think the 2nd phase group format was more a miss than a hit.

It worked well in the Argentina, Brazil, Italy group and gave us an all-time classic game in the final game. I think that was the only memorable group of the 4.

But the other groups were dull - Spain were already eliminated after just 1 game, and with nothing to play for in their SECOND game they just sat back and fashioned a 0-0 draw.

I think it was rightly abandoned in favour of the 1986-1994 format.

That format means teams get to stay in contention for longer - even losing the first 2 games can leave you with something to play for in the last game. It makes for more surprises and unpredictable outcomes - something the RWC desperately is short of.

The biggest objection is that stronger teams having sailed through the first two games can field a weaker team for the last game, and thereby give the lesser opponent a chance. I don't have a problem with this - the luxury of giving other players a run out is earned by winning the first two games. Luck plays a part in any tournament.

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Re: 2023 Draw, Thoughts?

Postby victorsra » Thu, 17 Dec 2020, 17:27

FIFA itself considered the 1982 format not good. From 1986 to 1994 they used the format with the R16.

Anyway, will the Russia suspension be valid also for the RWC? This would mean Netherlands promoted to the REC.

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Re: 2023 Draw, Thoughts?

Postby Armchair Fan » Thu, 17 Dec 2020, 17:39

victorsra wrote:Anyway, will the Russia suspension be valid also for the RWC? This would mean Netherlands promoted to the REC.

No. First of all they can't be demoted from REC because the ban doesn't apply to continental tournaments. Then, they aren't banned from entering World Championships as long as the flag and the anthem aren't displayed. And finally, RWC is held after the penalty is served.

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Re: 2023 Draw, Thoughts?

Postby victorsra » Thu, 17 Dec 2020, 17:42

Interesting this: https://www.bbc.com/sport/olympics/55349156

Russia will be allowed to play at next year's delayed Euro 2020 tournament because European football's governing body Uefa is not defined as a "major event organisation" with regards to rulings on anti-doping breaches.


This means Rugby Europe is also not included. As the RWC is in 2023, this probably means Russia can take part in th REC, unless as it is a RWC Qualy too it is considered a World Rugby competition. Anyway, what is interesting too is if Russia is allowed to play the REC in 2021-2022, could they play the Final Qualifier (the Repechage)? That's 100% World Rugby. Would be bizarre if Russia could qualify as Europa 1 or 2, but not as the Repechage qualifier.

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Re: 2023 Draw, Thoughts?

Postby victorsra » Thu, 17 Dec 2020, 17:44

So nothing happens regarding the RWC.

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Re: 2023 Draw, Thoughts?

Postby NaBUru38 » Fri, 18 Dec 2020, 22:34

I disagree with having 6 groups, since the top 6 teams wouldn't play each other.

I have proposed a format similar to the Nations Cup, with 4 groups of 6 teams where 3 teams play the other 3 teams.

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Re: 2023 Draw, Thoughts?

Postby victorsra » Fri, 18 Dec 2020, 22:38

?

The can face each other in the QFs, SFs....

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Re: 2023 Draw, Thoughts?

Postby snapper37 » Sat, 19 Dec 2020, 18:32

victorsra wrote:?

The can face each other in the QFs, SFs....



The World cup needs a 1/8 finals, where the 3rd place teams after the pool games playoff for direct qualification. Winners qualify, losers do not.

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Re: 2023 Draw, Thoughts?

Postby The Do » Sat, 19 Dec 2020, 23:16

victorsra wrote:
Raven wrote:It's too many maybes and if's.

We might (a biiiiig MIGHT) see closer scores between the 20th and 34th in the ranking (and it's already a massive step) but between the 34th and top 10/12 it wouldn't make any sense (almost as having this "discussion" today!) And again, it would be best to see more competition in the qualifiers and have THE BEST 24 in the World Cup, instead of opening a swing door for everybody to experience the RWC feeling.


It would be cool if 32 teams could be involved in a RWC Qualy main phase, qualifying 24 for the RWC. For exemple, during the 2025 B&I Lions window. Of course, in 2025, Home Nations and the Southern nation that faces them (I guess Australia) would have nothing nothing to fear about missing Lions Tour players. The same way, a team like South Africa could simply field a development squad and have other matches at the same moment if the want.

Exemple:
A: FRA, ITA, GEO, BEL
B: ENG, SCO, RUS, POR
C: IRE, WAL, SPA, ROM
D: NZL, JAP, TON, HKG
E: AUS, FIJ, SAM, KOR
F: SAF, NAM, KEN, ZIM
G: ARG, CAN, CHL, COL
H: USA, URU, BRA, PAR

Best 2 of each group = RWC.

Playoffs in 2026:

In July, 4ths vs 8 teams from Regional Qualifiers, keeping regionalization. Exemple:

BEL vs RET1 - NED
POR vs RET2 - SWI
ROM vs RET3 - GER
HKG vs Oceania 1 - PNG
KOR vs Asia 1 - MAY
ZIM vs Africa 1 - UGA
COL vs North America 1 - BER
PAR vs South America 1- PER

In November, 3rds vs July winners, by Ranking - 8 spots in the RWC. Exemple:
GEO vs ZIM
RUS vs KOR
SPA vs BEL
TON vs PAR
SAM vs COL
KEN vs ROM
CHL vs HKG
BRA vs POR

This model would have many thrashing results, like Samoa vs Colombia, indeed. But, in the Qualy it is ok to happen (it already happens, like Samoa/Tonga vs Oceania Cup champions, PNG/TAH/COOK....). It is part of a development path. Nobody will care if this happens in a Qualy, provided player welfare is not at risk. Teams like Paraguay and Colombia will be professional, the bigger question lies over Korea, Kenya, Zimbabwe.... the injury concern is always related to amateurs vs pros, not pros vs pros.



I love this idea, and it is quite doable

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Re: 2023 Draw, Thoughts?

Postby Canalina » Sun, 20 Dec 2020, 08:13

A new format purposed in the italian forum is the Junior World Cup one: two different levels of twelve teams, with promotion and relegation. But I can't appreciate this formula for a senior RWC.
My choice, despite a great uncertainty, would go to the "Espana '82" format or to the 4 pools x 6 teams format

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Re: 2023 Draw, Thoughts?

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Sun, 20 Dec 2020, 10:14

Canalina wrote:A new format purposed in the italian forum is the Junior World Cup one: two different levels of twelve teams, with promotion and relegation. But I can't appreciate this formula for a senior RWC.
My choice, despite a great uncertainty, would go to the "Espana '82" format or to the 4 pools x 6 teams format


Espana 82 was 6 pools of 4 teams, not 4 pools of 6 teams. It is a good format though.

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Re: 2023 Draw, Thoughts?

Postby Raven » Sun, 20 Dec 2020, 10:38

Chester-Donnelly wrote:
Canalina wrote:A new format purposed in the italian forum is the Junior World Cup one: two different levels of twelve teams, with promotion and relegation. But I can't appreciate this formula for a senior RWC.
My choice, despite a great uncertainty, would go to the "Espana '82" format or to the 4 pools x 6 teams format


Espana 82 was 6 pools of 4 teams, not 4 pools of 6 teams. It is a good format though.


He said Spain 82' (where 6 pools of 4 then transformed into 4 pools of 3 for the second phase) OR 4 pools of 6.

The more I think of that format of 82, the less attracted I am to it TBH. I'm still backing the 6 pools of 4 and Round of 16 :D

Going for the Junior World Cup format would be not one but 3 steps back in terms of narrowing the gap between T1 & T2, or T2 & T3. The bottom sides will neve get the chance to play a T1 side, and even though you'd be playing all games in the same host country, every neutral fan would be inclined to see a RWC "A" game instead of a RWC "B" one. I'd personally cross this one out from the get go.

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Re: 2023 Draw, Thoughts?

Postby Hernan14 » Sun, 20 Dec 2020, 17:49

I admit that I also think about formats, but we are really very naive, unfortunately WR handles everything by finger, the format of 24 teams like 1986 WC has as a consequence that in the QF's two 2nds play against the 1st and the remaining four face each other. ..in the first opportunity that any team from the Islands were harmed, everything will change. I'm sorry, but absolutely everything in WR is handled with respect to the teams of the Islands and it is necessary to begin to admit it. It already happened after the RWC 99, the first of 20 teams, when Ireland negotiated with France the venue for the Pre-QF's match for the QF's one, and when it went wrong, the format was changed.

For example, the current format of 20 teams is not bad per se, what is bad is its fixture, the calendar, and the reason is that it is made by hand, because they can easily make a more fair match calendar as soon as to the rest times, but they don't do it, fixtures are not by lottery, no, they define it by finger. The same will happen with the 24 teams, I have my doubts, that even with 24, the schedule is fair, they will always look for a way to handle it.

Now, everything is a joke, the qualifying rounds are very poor, not all the members participate on equal terms, I have already said it, if later, Wales, Ireland, Argentina or whoever, wants to put their second, third or fourth team for a match, It must be his own risk, but it must be done, not that joke of different divisions, that must be for internal continental competitions, but not for a classification, it is one thing to have different qualification stages, as it happens in other sports but not divisions, WR it is forgotten that it is a world organization, does the USA not participate in the basket qualy? If they have to play against the Bahamas or the Virgin Islands, they play and period, they will not use his first team, but play without question. Rugby is badly handled, the British Lions tour is more important to WR than putting together proper qualifiers, and I'm sorry, I watch that matches, but the priority should be all member countries, not a few, than the countries involved may they seek the solution to continue playing those tours, but at the cost of putting lower level players on the field in other international commitments, it cannot be that in the 21st century a member federation as it has already happened will not travel for a match because it doesn't have money to travel.

All can talk pests about FIFA, but if something that is clear, and publishes it, is the money that it contributes to each member, which is the same for all, the differences in money contributed arise from aid for competitions, for travel, for sports elements, and it is generally the smaller countries that receive the most money. The major countries make the difference with the prizes they obtain in competitions, sponsors, television, etc. But since FIFA, at least initially, Germany receives the same as the Solomon Islands (for the various aid, surely the Solomon Islands receives more money than Germany). In WR it is the opposite, the more important the country is, the more money it receives, while other members have no money to travel.

All fill their mouths with Japan, for years Japan received more money than Argentina, when Argentina became Tier One, it didn't receive the same as the rest and it couldn't dispose of it at will either, WR determined the way ... the day that Japan can have 30 Japanese players in its team and his project not be capture players from other countries to nationalize them and thus improve their performances, there we could say that the Japanese development was good, because today, Japanese success is proportional to the number of foreign players in his squad ... for the moment Uruguay or Georgia is more laudable in every way, why do I mention this? Because it is the way that WR is managed, it doesn't care about real development of rugby, it cares about money, if Japan grows at the cost of not using Japaneses players, it is welcome as long as it has an economic return to WR.

Sorry for the long post :oops:

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Re: 2023 Draw, Thoughts?

Postby victorsra » Sun, 20 Dec 2020, 18:25

I think one of the key issues for WR about the schedule of a RWC is one we haven't mentioned: weekend matches vs midweek matches. Rugby is not soccer, therefore matches kicking off from 0h to 16h on weekdays are a bad thing even for T1s. FIFA doesn't care, there are too many soccer fans, they adapt. But rugby is different. And I'm not talking about the host countries, I'm talking about the time people will watch matches in their own countries. That's a big issue.

This means, if the RWC 2027 is in Australia, midweek matches at night in Australia are ok for NZ, PIs or Japan, but very bad if they involve Europeans, SA, Argentina.... for exemple, French and British audiences are still crucial for the success of the RWC. Of the 12 matches of each round, let's say at least 8 would need to be in the weekend.

A new format purposed in the italian forum is the Junior World Cup one: two different levels of twelve teams, with promotion and relegation.

Basicaly death for T2 rugby. General sports media and general public in big countries like USA, Russia, Brazil, Spain, whatever, would not consider the 2nd division a World Cup qualification. All the value of being in a World Cup would be thrown in the garbage. Such concept is only suitable for an anual Nations Cup. The RWC is the special event every 4 years when you validate you are meaningful in the sport.

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Re: 2023 Draw, Thoughts?

Postby Hernan14 » Sun, 20 Dec 2020, 19:18

victorsra wrote:I think one of the key issues for WR about the schedule of a RWC is one we haven't mentioned: weekend matches vs midweek matches. Rugby is not soccer, therefore matches kicking off from 0h to 16h on weekdays are a bad thing even for T1s. FIFA doesn't care, there are too many soccer fans, they adapt. But rugby is different. And I'm not talking about the host countries, I'm talking about the time people will watch matches in their own countries. That's a big issue.

This means, if the RWC 2027 is in Australia, midweek matches at night in Australia are ok for NZ, PIs or Japan, but very bad if they involve Europeans, SA, Argentina.... for exemple, French and British audiences are still crucial for the success of the RWC. Of the 12 matches of each round, let's say at least 8 would need to be in the weekend.


That vision that rugby is different is what, one and once again, doesn't allow its development. If fans in their own countries are not going to watch their national team, they will not do so on the weekend or in midweek.

Rugby is no different, it is a sport just like the rest, but with less desire on the part of its central organism to grow.

In the same way that if everything is organized for the French and British audiences, close everything, let them play at Twickenham and Saint-Denis and that's it.

The first round of the World Cup in Japan started on a Friday and ended on a Sunday, there were 4 first-round weekends, with 8 matches per round, they could have played all 8 match of each round from Friday to Sunday, giving a more fair schedule to all, but not, they did the opposite, there were more games Wednesday and Thursday than Friday for example...with less time rest, Rugby not is different, is inequal with his members.

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Re: 2023 Draw, Thoughts?

Postby sk 88 » Sun, 20 Dec 2020, 19:31

victorsra wrote:I think one of the key issues for WR about the schedule of a RWC is one we haven't mentioned: weekend matches vs midweek matches. Rugby is not soccer, therefore matches kicking off from 0h to 16h on weekdays are a bad thing even for T1s. FIFA doesn't care, there are too many soccer fans, they adapt. But rugby is different. And I'm not talking about the host countries, I'm talking about the time people will watch matches in their own countries. That's a big issue.

This means, if the RWC 2027 is in Australia, midweek matches at night in Australia are ok for NZ, PIs or Japan, but very bad if they involve Europeans, SA, Argentina.... for exemple, French and British audiences are still crucial for the success of the RWC. Of the 12 matches of each round, let's say at least 8 would need to be in the weekend.

A new format purposed in the italian forum is the Junior World Cup one: two different levels of twelve teams, with promotion and relegation.

Basicaly death for T2 rugby. General sports media and general public in big countries like USA, Russia, Brazil, Spain, whatever, would not consider the 2nd division a World Cup qualification. All the value of being in a World Cup would be thrown in the garbage. Such concept is only suitable for an anual Nations Cup. The RWC is the special event every 4 years when you validate you are meaningful in the sport.


So arguably this format actually fixes that too. You can play 2 games on Friday, 4 on Sat, 4 on Sunday, 2 on Mondays. If you wanted to go very extreme you could go for 5 games on Sat and Sun (12:00 through to 8:00pm). You certainly get fewer of these games than in the current format.

When I did that dummy USA bid it had 5 games on Monday, 4 on Tuesday, 2 on Wednesday, 4 on Thursday, 5 on Friday, 13 Saturday and 11 Sunday through to the end of the R16 (i.e. equivalent to 20 team group stage).

2019 had:
Mon: 2
Tue: 2
Weds: 6
Tur: 4
Fri: 3
Sat: 12
Sun: 11

So more games on the weekend, more on the Monday and the Friday (easier for most to take as a holiday/day off), same in the middle three days of the week. Assuming they still fix the draw to a certain extent you wouldn't even need to put the T1 v T1 games into the mid week slots.

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Re: 2023 Draw, Thoughts?

Postby victorsra » Sun, 20 Dec 2020, 21:19

Hernan14 wrote:
victorsra wrote:I think one of the key issues for WR about the schedule of a RWC is one we haven't mentioned: weekend matches vs midweek matches. Rugby is not soccer, therefore matches kicking off from 0h to 16h on weekdays are a bad thing even for T1s. FIFA doesn't care, there are too many soccer fans, they adapt. But rugby is different. And I'm not talking about the host countries, I'm talking about the time people will watch matches in their own countries. That's a big issue.

This means, if the RWC 2027 is in Australia, midweek matches at night in Australia are ok for NZ, PIs or Japan, but very bad if they involve Europeans, SA, Argentina.... for exemple, French and British audiences are still crucial for the success of the RWC. Of the 12 matches of each round, let's say at least 8 would need to be in the weekend.


That vision that rugby is different is what, one and once again, doesn't allow its development. If fans in their own countries are not going to watch their national team, they will not do so on the weekend or in midweek.

Rugby is no different, it is a sport just like the rest, but with less desire on the part of its central organism to grow.

In the same way that if everything is organized for the French and British audiences, close everything, let them play at Twickenham and Saint-Denis and that's it.

The first round of the World Cup in Japan started on a Friday and ended on a Sunday, there were 4 first-round weekends, with 8 matches per round, they could have played all 8 match of each round from Friday to Sunday, giving a more fair schedule to all, but not, they did the opposite, there were more games Wednesday and Thursday than Friday for example...with less time rest, Rugby not is different, is inequal with his members.


Sorry, Rugby isn't different. Football is.

The thing is every fan counts for rugby, therefore the time of the match counts. In the middle of a working day, you'll only get the rugby fans, but you won't get many new fans. On a weekend or on a midweek night, you can get new fans. That's the thing.

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Re: 2023 Draw, Thoughts?

Postby Hernan14 » Mon, 21 Dec 2020, 01:24

victorsra wrote:
Hernan14 wrote:
victorsra wrote:I think one of the key issues for WR about the schedule of a RWC is one we haven't mentioned: weekend matches vs midweek matches. Rugby is not soccer, therefore matches kicking off from 0h to 16h on weekdays are a bad thing even for T1s. FIFA doesn't care, there are too many soccer fans, they adapt. But rugby is different. And I'm not talking about the host countries, I'm talking about the time people will watch matches in their own countries. That's a big issue.

This means, if the RWC 2027 is in Australia, midweek matches at night in Australia are ok for NZ, PIs or Japan, but very bad if they involve Europeans, SA, Argentina.... for exemple, French and British audiences are still crucial for the success of the RWC. Of the 12 matches of each round, let's say at least 8 would need to be in the weekend.


That vision that rugby is different is what, one and once again, doesn't allow its development. If fans in their own countries are not going to watch their national team, they will not do so on the weekend or in midweek.

Rugby is no different, it is a sport just like the rest, but with less desire on the part of its central organism to grow.

In the same way that if everything is organized for the French and British audiences, close everything, let them play at Twickenham and Saint-Denis and that's it.

The first round of the World Cup in Japan started on a Friday and ended on a Sunday, there were 4 first-round weekends, with 8 matches per round, they could have played all 8 match of each round from Friday to Sunday, giving a more fair schedule to all, but not, they did the opposite, there were more games Wednesday and Thursday than Friday for example...with less time rest, Rugby not is different, is inequal with his members.


Sorry, Rugby isn't different. Football is.

The thing is every fan counts for rugby, therefore the time of the match counts. In the middle of a working day, you'll only get the rugby fans, but you won't get many new fans. On a weekend or on a midweek night, you can get new fans. That's the thing.


Please Victor, don't take it personally.

You know very well that the argument that Rugby is different is used to justify absolutely everything. After the draw, I would see comments (not here) and when someone said it was ridiculous or didn't make sense, the first argument was: "Rugby is different", then came the "you don't know anything, you sure watch football."

If they want new TV viewers, they should give a damn about French and British audiences, they would watch Asia (absolutely all sports target Asia).

I already said it in the previous comment anyway, if they cared about getting new fans, they had everything in 2019 and in the previous World Cups to place all the games from Friday to Sunday, and at the same time be more fair with the rest times of the teams, but they did NOT do it, because they are unequal in their decisions

The draw has just been carried out, 3 years before, using rankings from 4 years before, how is the order of the games? In which cities does each country play its matches? There are not even the 20 classified teams, it is not serious in any sport.

I looked for it but didn't find it, perhaps the fixture and venues of the different matches are already defined and I am the one who doesn't know it, if anyone has that information, I will appreciate it and remove my comment that the RWC draws is the least serious draw of any World Cup of any sport.

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