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German rugby

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Re: German rugby

Postby DragonMike » Sat, 11 May 2019, 20:47

I have seen some very negative usage of these "hütchenspielertricks"rules previously e.g. the banning of Berliner Rugby Club from the youth championship a few years ago for an adminstrative error was supported/driven by certain members of this 'group of three', who accidentally forwarded their protest to a general distribution list.

Nevertheless, the tricks are generally being used to achieve something people really believe in, and sensible financial management is vital to avoid unravelling progress made - and that really has occurred - Germany going to HongKong next year probably as favourites (on a solid, repeatable, financial basis, gradually won) would have been unthinkable 10 years ago. 15s on the other hand has been a farce, blowing some 10-20m Euros??? After the last of the import players (no malice to them) leave in a few years, it will probably be 0 progress. I don't see any evidence yet that the new/current strategy is that well thought through either. I would like to see a case being made publicly, even just via an opinion piece on total rugby or whatever - just basic strategy and financial projections, not a fluffy press release. So I think dismissing a group due to their tactics is not fair.

But it is astonishing how farcically badly prepared DRT can be. Have never seen two well organised president candidates representing different views build their case in the run up to it. In fact I have never seen two candidates turn up, or sometimes even one... Maybe each of these apparent 'factions' will think to present candidates at the DRT, announce them even a few months in advance (well whatever is left) and publish their plans/opinions in the run up to DRT, but I doubt it..... I guess Robin Stalker will run again and he seems like a good guy, but totally agree RugbyLiebe - if no one is challenging publicly with alternative plans, then they should not try to be brake on potential progress.

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Re: German rugby

Postby Blurandski » Sun, 12 May 2019, 13:18

Hilsenbecker putting in a good FH performance for Vannnes in the promotion playoff.

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Re: German rugby

Postby Vultureblack » Mon, 13 May 2019, 05:07

Who will play - that's the point indeed.
Actions speak louder than words. A crucial weather vane for who is in charge in German rugby will be the fateful relegation match against Portugal. Will sevens players be allowed to play?
In the hour of need for German rugby. Even if some in the federation might see some reason in going down.
Meaningful support would be that a share of the best wingers qualified for Germany would be released from the sevens squads. Not just flankers or centers like in Marseille or the REC (who then play out of position.) Or players named in the squad but never actually starting. At least three of the calibre of Himmer, Sczesny, Dembele, Ellermann, Lichtenberg, Biniak, or Zinzan Hees. They can’t be all injured at the moment. (Sita and Katoa are probably not yet eligible.)
This is one alternative to the prevalent (but not outspoken) paradigm of bundling all resources (players and money) in sevens.
A taboo topic. Despite the logic for each of the four alternatives:
1./2. clear priority of one code,
3. no priority but strict separation amid equitable share of the wingers or
4. a case based revolving door between them as stipulated in the forgotten Entenmann-Temme-Gebhardt-compromise brokered by Mark Egan of World Rugby in 2018.

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Re: German rugby

Postby Saracenswulfpackdef » Fri, 24 May 2019, 14:59

Hi Vultureblack,
a local German newspaper has got news for you. It published a squad for that game today (not the federation as yet.)
It contains indeed five players previously off-limit to the fifteen-a-side team. They had at one point in time been active for the national side in the abbreviated code.
But don't hold your breath. Firstly, two of those individuals are flankers. Who would not make the match day 23 if all others named there actually turn up (even though the names of Jarryd Els and Lee Murray are missing.) But I grant that it might be tested whether their "appointment" was earnest, as the squad is whittled down when confronted with reality.
That is likely to happen for the three other ones. Two of them are centres not wingers. As demanded by you.
That reduces this acid test designed by you to hotshot Zani Dembele. He is dear to the sevens camp. Did they really spare him? I hope deep in my heart, that his unavailability is not already known.

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Re: German rugby

Postby Saracenswulfpackdef » Sat, 25 May 2019, 04:43

The federation followed suit on its webpage. So its entirely official (what Ford and Botha are aiming at.)
„Heidelberger RK: Jörn Schröder, Dasch Barber, Sean Armstrong, Felix Lammers
Hannover 78: Jarrod Saul
RG Heidelberg: Johannes Schreieck
SC Frankfurt 1880: Marcel Becker, Samy Füchsel, Emil Rupf, Michael Poppmeier, Marcel Henn, Raynor Parkinson
SC Neuenheim: Oliver Paine
TSV Handschuhsheim: Paul Schüle, Jaco Otto, Eden Syme, Nikolai Klewinghaus, Marcel Coetzee
Stade Aurillacois (FRA): Julius Nostadt
Stade Nicois (FRA): Mika Tyumenev
Racing 92 (FRA): Zani Dembele
RC Vannes (FRA): Tim Menzel, Chris Hilsenbeck
Stade Rochelais (FRA): Eric Marks
SOC Chambery (FRA): Sebastian Ferreira
US Macon (FRA): Claude Brechenmacher
Hamiltons RC (RSA): Mark Fairhurst
Pumas (RSA): Cameron Lindsay
Bridgend Ravens RFC (WAL): Jamie Murphy
Doncaster RFC (ENG): Toby Williams
Worthing Raiders RFC (ENG): Jonathon Dawe
Vereinslos: Kurt Haupt, Antony Dickinson

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Re: German rugby

Postby Vultureblack » Sun, 26 May 2019, 18:57

Thanks.
Not quite version 3 or 4 indeed since its solely about wingers. Rather a tiny step for anybody who would prefer such a priority.
„Aiming at.“ Noticed the innuendo Mr. Wulf(pack.) If all these guys show up, it would be a decent team. But that is a big if. See a similar squad before the REC which raised expectations for Armstrong, Schramm, Poppmeier, Listmann, and Fairhurst.
Noteworthy is a sense of cost efficiency. Some high profile players are included, but a host of useful but less prestigious others from abroad like Dyckhoff, Ducau, or Oltman are not considered. A continuation of the REC topped up by Aounallah.
One player deserves special attention: This is the first time towering 6-7 lock Cameron Sinclair is appearing in a German squad. At times running out for Mpumalanga Pumas.
I learned of his availability for Germany in this forum (some pages back.) Also here the question is - will it take about a year between such a nomination and his first match? Similar to high calibre operators like Kurt Haupt, Luke Dyckhoff, or Adam Preocanin. In the case of Julien Fritz (brother of a certain Florian,) Oti Kafotamaki (also discussed at this section of t2rugby,) or Jonny Harris (of London Scottish fame, nominated January 26, 2018) we don't yet know. It might happen one day.
So far a new dream is alive. Just look at plucky Toby Williams. This committed character proved to be a positive counter example. Here initial bravado corresponded to reality. Without delay.
Hallelujah.

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Re: German rugby

Postby RugbyLiebe » Mon, 27 May 2019, 07:01

As strange as it sounds, Germany has won an international 7s tournament for the first time in ages (I think the last win was the promotion tournament to the Grand Prix Series in 2011 ) by winning the Howard Hinton 7s in Tours.

There was another debut with Kilian Bendjaballah, a pro from D2 side Oyonnax. He qualifies through his German mother. With 1,90m also not exactly a small man :D Wasn't able to see any games of the Wulfpack this weekend, so can't judge how he played.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: German rugby

Postby Saracenswulfpackdef » Tue, 04 Jun 2019, 05:36

Feeling the pulse: The sevens camp is entirely dedicated.
BRC, one of the models of grassroots work in German rugby, is having the most important game of the club in a decade or two. For the greater good it has got to second three top players to the development 7s-team.
Symbolic gesture or not – the message is that any measure in sevens trumps anything else.
A harbinger of what Robin Stalker released overnight?

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Re: German rugby

Postby Canalina » Wed, 05 Jun 2019, 17:30

The Bundesliga final will be shown live?

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Re: German rugby

Postby RugbyLiebe » Thu, 06 Jun 2019, 12:22

Canalina wrote:The Bundesliga final will be shown live?


I am pleasantly surprised: yes, it will be shown by the Hessian broadcasting service. Kickoff is 15:00.

https://www.hessenschau.de/sport/mehr-s ... m-100.html

For those who don't follow German club rugby.

The final is between 1880 Frankfurt and TSV Handschuhsheim (Heidelberg).
Handschuhsheim probably got the best pro players who left the HRK before this season and wants to gain their second German title. 1880 has just won the youth championship in ALL age groups (U12, U14, U16, U18) and seems like the favourite here, too.

Trivia: Frankfurt also has some semi-pro players, but their focus is absolutely to form a youth system, which can keep up with the best in Europe. And they succeed to do so, when they play British or French teams. Out of this now 500-kids-strong-youth academy came just this season an 18-year-old national team player (REC) with Emil Rupf and an All Black school boy select with Anton Segner.1880 is indeed the year they were founded as a rugby club. They also were the team who brought the Olympic silver medal home in 1900.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: German rugby

Postby Vultureblack » Fri, 07 Jun 2019, 07:14

Stalker's statement: German rugby is in shock.
It might be required that it becomes clear that the majority of the community wants him. Otherwise it won't be worth his while any more and his time will start to look like an episode in the past.
To what Saracenswulfpack wrote about the priorities between the men's semifinal in the full code. And the requirements of sevens and a tournament for the development side:
One semifinal of the adult championship could not be completed. As an overstrechted BRC was running out of players due to too many injuries.
That was a bit of a price to pay as this would have been different with those three players. A better semi-final. And Wuyo Zanqua, who is said to have watched that semifinal on site in Frankfurt, would have seen those three in a stern test.
There was an exception: Jarrod Saul was allowed to play against TSV Handschuhsheim in the second match of that weekend. A different matter, because Saul is not a development sevens international? Well, Jan Piosik is. And he was allowed to start in that semifinal as well.
Whether this bodes well for the crucial Portugal match is up to speculation. A positive sign would be a squad nominated today or tomorrow. With players on stand-by like usual to cover for injuries in the national final.
However, since that is sometimes hard to accomplish, announcing it late (like beginning of next week,) sometimes was the best recipe for positive surprises.
To sum it up: There are two camps in the board who can't work together. And the federation is bust. Robin Stalker has not thrown in the towel. Yet. Unlike his two successive full-time CEOs Michl and Lees.
Possible succssor of Robin Stalker? Romana Thielecke? Or, now seriously, reverting back to a personality of the previous generation of Blank, Zeiger, Poff et al?
There is a certain likelihood that the voters on the Rugbytag in July will be spared a decision like Dragonmike demanded in mid-May here. The division will have been worked out behind closed doors with only one candidate on offer.
Last edited by Vultureblack on Fri, 07 Jun 2019, 13:33, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: German rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Fri, 07 Jun 2019, 09:59

Vultureblack wrote:There was an exception: Jarrod Saul was allowed to play against TSV Handschuhsheim in the second match of that weekend. A different matter, because Saul is not a development sevens international? Well, Jan Piosik is. And he was allowed to start in that semifinal as well.

Unfortunately this happens everywhere. Sevens staff decides whether players can or not return to their clubs.

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Re: German rugby

Postby RugbyLiebe » Fri, 07 Jun 2019, 11:19

Vultureblack wrote:One semifinal of the adult championship could not be completed. As an overstrechted BRC was running out of players due to too many injuries.


That's new to me, so I checked it up. If you have a look at the totalrugby.de-liveticker the game between 1880 Frankfurt and Berliner RC was close to 80 minutes, when it happened and after a 5-minute-break because of players from both team being severely injured, the ref ended the game. Don't see what this has to do with 7s players not being allowed to play. Whoever was in charge of the ticker wrote, that this injuries were unnecessary so late in the game.

80 + 4. min (15:35): "Das musste jetzt nicht mehr sein... Nach einem gefangenen hohen Ball geht ein Frankfurter sehr hart ran, beide Spieler prallen gegeneinander und bleiben liegen."
80 + 7. min (15:37): "Das Spiel ist angehalten. Beide Spieler werden behandelt."
(15:40): "Der Schiri beschließt, das Spiel zu beenden. Absolut richtige Entscheidung in dieser Situation. Der Frankfurter Spieler ist auf dem Weg in die Kabine, der Berliner muss wohl mit einer Trage abtransportiert werden. "

Source:
http://www.totalrugby.de/component/opti ... temid,317/

So is this ticker wrong? It is the only source for me to tell if your claim is correct.
Maybe German rugby should think about less stories about things that fit in a person's world view and more facts. "A semi-final game couldn't be played until the end because of the DRV selection rules" looks like an extremely destructive story to me.
It is really, how many people in German rugby would want to show rugby in a bad light overall, if only their own claims make a good story/ fit their club. It is so simple to see, that the only loser of this is rugby itself.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: German rugby

Postby Canalina » Fri, 07 Jun 2019, 13:47

Searching a bit about Frankfurt and Handschusheihm (<- too difficult to write for an italian) I've seen that there's an italian player in Frankfurt 1880: named Edoardo Stella, he is an utility back and surprisingly it was in the starting XV in semifinal with the jersey #13, at the side of Raynor Parkinson. Stella comes from italian second category (Serie A), so it is a bit astonishing that he was able to make the first 15 in the best club of Germany

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Re: German rugby

Postby Vultureblack » Fri, 07 Jun 2019, 13:48

Thanks Rugbyliebe for taking this seriously.
The matchticker has got its own clock which is running through. On that level only the ref known how much time is left. When he stopped his clock, there was still time on it. (That is confirmed by the life ticker.)
Also before there was a noteworthy amount of stoppage time, which he normally would add on. In the end, it was a sensitive decicion of the ref not to restart the game. Justified by the precarious situation in which the young, spirited but well beaten Berlin sportsmen were.
I grant any doubter that I referred to this matter without elaborating enough on who the match ended. The point is, that Berlin was really affected by not being able to use these three players.
The first team that ran out was ok. Very early one player had to be replaced. After halftime they were overwhelmed. As they otherwise would not have been. They simply lacked what was needed in such a touch match on the bench.
So understandably the match ended early.

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Re: German rugby

Postby Canalina » Sat, 08 Jun 2019, 13:07

RugbyLiebe wrote:https://www.hessenschau.de/sport/mehr-sport/rugby-frankfurt-handschuhsheim-100.html

It's working also abroad

Frankfurt ahead 7-0 thanks to an hooker try

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Re: German rugby

Postby Canalina » Sun, 09 Jun 2019, 06:01

Franfurt v Handschuhsheihem 22-12 (22-0)

Image

I've seen most of the match because I hoped the young italian player won the German title, as it happened. Frankfurt seemed dominating but then somehow the Heidelberger team partially remounted and without some missed kicks (one conversion and two or three penalties) they could have come very close. Nice glance of the stadium with several hundreds people (some thousands?) all around the field lines, with mothers, kids and dogs too, and a pacific invasion at the final whistle

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Re: German rugby

Postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 11 Jun 2019, 09:02

Vultureblack wrote:Thanks Rugbyliebe for taking this seriously.


So what is your point? No offense, but my impression of your reply is, that it gets a bit lost in detail and the rest is a bit shortsighted.

I think that national teams should always be prioritized before a club team (at least until you have crowds of 2-4000 at every club game and not the 100-300 we have in the Bundesliga normally). And off course the national team coach decides who he blocks for which games. I also never had the impression that, especially the 7s coach, was for or against any clubs.

I don't think, that a game apparently stopped a bit earlier by the ref, because two heavy injuries appeared at a time where the game was already decided, justifies a rant like yours.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: German rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Wed, 12 Jun 2019, 12:45

It's not big news because we all suspect how things work with the same coaches jumping from one T2/T3 to another T2/T3 (hi Kingsley!) but in an interview given to El Tercer Tiempo from Spanish radio station COPE Pablo Lemoine acknowledges that he was asked by World Rugby to return to South America and was given the Chile job once they realised that political mess was driving Germany nowhere: https://www.cope.es/programas/solo-cope ... 611_772709

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Re: German rugby

Postby Caledor » Mon, 17 Jun 2019, 09:54

Is there any substance to whispers I have been hearing that the DBV or the top Bundesliga clubs have been having discussions with external parties to form a league with some of the top Russian, Georgian and Romanian clubs in time for next 2019/20 season?

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Re: German rugby

Postby RugbyLiebe » Mon, 17 Jun 2019, 14:15

Caledor wrote:Is there any substance to whispers I have been hearing that the DBV or the top Bundesliga clubs have been having discussions with external parties to form a league with some of the top Russian, Georgian and Romanian clubs in time for next 2019/20 season?


All I've heard about is in this very forum. I reckon we have a few other problems to sort out atm.
It is D R V (Deutscher Rugby-Verband) btw.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: German rugby

Postby Raven » Mon, 24 Jun 2019, 15:31

Going through recent results and pending finals I thought I might pour the info in here to talk more about local rugby instead of other stuff for a while…

1.BL North/Ost
- St Pauli RC (last placed team) went down after one season in their return to the Top flight.
- SG Odin/Vfb Döhren was promoted to the Bundesliga after a season in the second tier.

A Promotion/Relegation game between TSV Victoria Linden (2.Bl Nord runners up) and Hamburger RC (placed only above St Pauli in the 1.Bl North/Ost table) will determine the team composition for next season.

2.BL Nord
Pretty sad that the 2.Bundesliga Nord ended with only 4 teams (in comparison, the South has 8 sides) as FT Adler Kiel didn´t play their last games.

The Regionalliga Nord was won by Hannover 78 II, but it´s always been difficult for 2nd sides to take a step forward from “Regional” to “Bundes” status, so it´s unlikely that we see them in a higher division next season. Northern Lions were the runners-up; I have no clue on whether they are eligible to go up and if they´d be in a position to do so.

2.BL Ost
2.Bundesliga Ost looks healthier with 6 sides.
USV Jena likely to go down, but who´s coming up is the question; RK 03 Berlin II won the final between against RU Hohen Neuendorf, and same as Hannover 78 II would apply, will they come up? I woudn´t bet on Neuendorf to do so.

The Regionalliga NordOst (comprising most teams from Berlin, Brandenburg + Leipzig) could really be split in 2 pools based on level instead of having 2 groups and them playing each other… it would certainly add more spice to it with closer and better games instead of point difference being decisive.

1.BL South/West
Neckarsulmer SU had a shy recovery at the end of last year, but efforts fell short as they will be demoted to the 2.BL Süd next rugby year.

SC Neuenheim will be taking their spot. They had a dream season not only cause they won all 14 games of their group, they did so in fashion, obtaining the attacking bonus on every match. Perfect 70 points with 1203 + points and only 99pts against. Went into the Süd/West Play offs as a serious candidate and didn´t choke, won their semi-final 120-0 against RC Aachen, bagging a win for more than a 100+ points for the 6th time in their season. In the final they beat Rottweil but in a closer encounter.
The surprise here is that the 2016 Champions and 2017 finalists, TV Pforzheim (now SG TV/CfR Pforzheim) will be playing the repechage game with 2.BL Süd runners-up and Play Off finalists, RC Rottweil.

All teams participating of the promotion/relegation in all forms come from the South so this will have an impact in the championships below.

2.BL Süd
Rottweil achievements were overshadowed by Neuenheim´s performance but they had a good season nonetheless; with only 3 defeats, twice to the “unbeatables” and once to StuSta München.

Given the way both sides approach the Final game (Rottweil and Pforzheim) I wouldn´t cross out the Rottweilers to cause an upset…

Relegated here is RC Stuttgart, who seemed to have emulated their Football cousins (also relegated from the Bundesliga) pretty poor campaign of a side that could aim for bigger things. The Regionalliga BaWü may be interesting next season with quite a number of clubs.

Still playing for promotion are Karslruher SV (Regionalliga Baden Württemberg winners) and RFC Augsburg (Regionalliga Bavaria winners)

2.BL West
I was expecting a bit more from TGS Hausen playing home with RC Rottweil, but the fact that they were unable to beat them is what makes me think Rottweil might be in the race to pull an upset.

The championship had a team folding half way through the season, as Grashof RC Essen couldn´t manage to field a team for all their games.

If my assumptions are correct, this time a Play Off between Hessen and the Regionalliga West (comprising Rheinland / Westfalen / Rheinland-Pfalz/Luxemburg) won´t be necessary as if both teams are promoted they could complete the 8 team league. The respective winners are BSC Offenbach from RL Hessen, and RC Walferdange (from Luxembourg) who won the RL West Play Off round.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Everything is obviously very unpredictable, as sides may chose not to go up, or their authorization to do so may be revoked.

Good that both teams from Luxembourg are doing relatively well in the German set up, would be interesting to see how RC Walferdange does against 2.Bundesliga teams.

Can´t say for sure what happened with RC Innsbruck in the Bavarian lowest league, I would have placed a bet on them winning it considering they weren´t one of the weak sides in the Austrian / Alpine 1.Bundesliga.

Caledor wrote:Is there any substance to whispers I have been hearing that the DRV or the top Bundesliga clubs have been having discussions with external parties to form a league with some of the top Russian, Georgian and Romanian clubs in time for next 2019/20 season?


I don´t think that the German clubs nor the DRV can afford the logistics of such venture.

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Re: German rugby

Postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 25 Jun 2019, 07:19

Raven wrote:Can´t say for sure what happened with RC Innsbruck in the Bavarian lowest league, I would have placed a bet on them winning it considering they weren´t one of the weak sides in the Austrian / Alpine 1.Bundesliga.


They finished second to Ulm and therefore failed to get promoted.

https://rugbyweb.de/index.php?league=VLbayern

Overall I think it is time to a) change the schedule to a Northern and a Southern Verbandsliga (if Würzburg gets relegated (they will if Augsburg loses the playoffs against Karlsruhe) you will have a distance of 440 km one-way between Würzburg and Innsbruck.
or b) have a new league in between Regionalliga and Verbandsliga (as there is a bit of a gap between top teams and lower ranked sides)

What I am proud of from a Bavarian perspective is, that the Bundesliga South could have more Bavarian than other teams for the very first time. If Augsburg wins the playoffs there are 5 Bavarian teams in that league, when there was only one in 2011/12 (Bavaria also has a mandatory "you-have-to-go-up"-rule for the winner of the Regionalliga).

Also the numbers of active clubs have gone up from 13 clubs with 16 teams in 2011/12 to 22 clubs with 23 teams (a lot of shared teams involved) in men's rugby. It even more than doubled in women's rugby from 5 clubs in 4 teams in 2011/12 to 11 clubs with 11 teams in 2018/19.

In general Munich and it directly sourrounding counties have started to become a hub with now 7 clubs in 9 teams in men's rugby (Stusta (3), MRFC (2), RCU (1,5), Fürstenfeldbruck (0,5), Team München (0,5), Gröbenzell (0,5) and a new school club called St. George's participating in the games of Unterföhring's 2nd team).
With the 2. Bundesliga clubs from Munich winning all the state youth championships (München RFC U10, U14, U16, RC Unterföhring (U8, U12), StuSta (U18)) there is also a healthy growth and a rise in quality which, off course, both need to continue.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: German rugby

Postby Raven » Tue, 25 Jun 2019, 09:14

Yes, I knew they had finished second to Ulm, what I fail to understand is how they couldn´t win it!? My first guess would be the way the tournament was set. Playing each other only once has shown to be quite tricky as distances and home advantage after some long trips end up playing a major role. The return leg of “big games” would have been crucial.

The Würzburg to Innsbruck distance issue; AFAIK for Innsbruck to join the RVBy the union affiliated members took a vote, and they were welcomed in, if the distances are now a problem, well, tough luck! On the other hand the “Mountain Boys” also joined the Bavarian system knowing the amount of kms they would have to cope with, surely 1 trip to WRK and Coburg (perhaps Bamberg would also fall as a long drive) is a lot better than going 3/4 times to Vienna, Graz, Ljubljana, Maribor…

We´ve both talked about this before, splitting in North and South is an alternative but IMPO is an “easy way out”. I hate to see 100+ points games and there would be plenty of those if they went that route. On the other hand, distances caused a lot of cancelations, with teams not traveling to play (i.e Bamberg had 3 of their 5 home games called off, and they didn’t travel to Kempten, so didn´t play 4 out of 10 games, ironically, ended in 5th place!) so I do understand there is a valid point in that. But then again the teams that are more consistent with the traveling and fielding teams week in / week out are the most prepared to go up to RL (both Ravensburg and Bayreuth are a proof of this) which should be ultimately the objective, right? to have a competitive RL and that the teams that do their ground work have the tools to be promoted to the 2.BL or above!

With all this being said, I´m 100% in favor of adding a new League in the middle of the RL and VL. I believe that if the “top” sides of the VL were to be playing in a tournament where they could be relegated to a league below, the competition would be more interesting and they would try to cope with all games. And the “new” VL would serve it´s purpose of being a development tournament.

We´d also need to wait and see what teams end up registering in the upcoming season. I´ve heard Erlangen want to perhaps give it a go despite their very short history (can´t say if merged with somebody or how), word is St George´s and Ingolstadt also want to break up with Unterföhring´s second side but play as an SG, plus rumours of a handful of Passau Univ. players bulking a team officially again (maybe with Unterföhring II again?) and Illesheim (now going as Black and Blue) also had some friendlies this season which have raised interest, they are also doing some interesting things in Junior Rugby.

Imagine for a second all this happening and all VL teams still participating (dunno if StuSta III will still be a thing next season, as they have forfeited a few games); it would be a hell of an achievement!, but it´s extremely unlikely though so don´t put your hopes up. :)

Like I´m suggesting this for Bavaria, I would also apply the same format for other regions like the Nordost RL (where Group A ended with 4 teams after Berliner SV 92 folded, and Group B has 6), make it 2 leagues with 5 good sides and 5 development ones, promoting a development participant up a level if a new team registers…
RL West this season started with 19 teams while RL Hessen had 9; with a merger there you may even divide the number in 3 or 4 leagues based on level + a North / South or East / West split!; i.e RL West-Hessen (8) / VL West-Hessen (8) / VL "B" West-Hessen North (6) VL "B" West-Hessen South (6) :geek: :shock:

Especially as in both these Unions, the Verbandsliga does not exist as a championship, just in a open day / Fill Your Boots tournament format.

As long as the North and the Ost don´t get their 2.Bundesliga "in order" the creation of a 3.Liga is pretty much out of the table, which is a shame since it would also be an interesting route to explore...

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Re: German rugby

Postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 25 Jun 2019, 14:13

Raven wrote:As long as the North and the Ost don´t get their 2.Bundesliga "in order" the creation of a 3.Liga is pretty much out of the table, which is a shame since it would also be an interesting route to explore...


The latest proposed reform will change that, as they will have a 8 team "Elite league" with a 8 team two divisions North/East and South/West with 6 teams as 1. Bundesliga and then 6 teams in 4 divisions as 2. Bundesliga. After the first games the top4 will play playoffs home-and-away, the bottom two home-and-away with the two losers being relegated. The smartest point is, those divisions will be set on which teams are in. If two teams are relegated from 2. Bundesliga West i.e., the next year's divisions will be made up of one more south teams which leads to all the divisions being set up new. Makes a lot of sense to fill the gaps instead of having a division with only 4 teams and one with 8 teams.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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