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Russian Rugby

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Re: Russian Rugby

Postby tryman » Sun, 27 Dec 2020, 09:49

STMKY wrote:Feature: Surprising Russian revolution
https://www.sarugbymag.co.za/feature-su ... evolution/
South Africans about Russian rugby


The example of Jeremy Jordaan playing for Enisei and then getting a contract with Agen is a very good example of how things can work out if you are looking for a contract in the other European leagues. According to wiki Jordaan scored 11 tries for Enisei.

I wonder how much are contracts worth in Russia?

In regards to PI players I do think there will be openings in Super Rugby in 2022 providing Moana Pasifika and Fiji get teams. MLR is another avenue for both SA & PI players.

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Re: Russian Rugby

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Sun, 27 Dec 2020, 10:13

tryman wrote:
STMKY wrote:Feature: Surprising Russian revolution
https://www.sarugbymag.co.za/feature-su ... evolution/
South Africans about Russian rugby


The example of Jeremy Jordaan playing for Enisei and then getting a contract with Agen is a very good example of how things can work out if you are looking for a contract in the other European leagues. According to wiki Jordaan scored 11 tries for Enisei.

I wonder how much are contracts worth in Russia?

In regards to PI players I do think there will be openings in Super Rugby in 2022 providing Moana Pasifika and Fiji get teams. MLR is another avenue for both SA & PI players.


The example of Jeremy Jordaan and the opportunity for tier 1 and tier 2 players to play professionally in Russia or USA, and to use that as a launchpad to get into the top 3 European leagues, actually makes the Cheetahs redundant in my opinion. I am a fan of the Cheetahs, but there are now other routes for players to work their way up to the big four professional South African teams and the Springboks. Cheetahs should continue to play in the Currie Cup, along with the Pumas, the Griquas and eventually the Kings, with the big 4 teams. But there is no need for them to be playing in Europe because the players can play in Europe.

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Re: Russian Rugby

Postby Vova12 » Sun, 27 Dec 2020, 11:45

Jeremy Jordaan left for France after Yenisei games with Castres.
After our clubs have thrown out of Challenge Cup this method will no longer work ...
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Re: Russian Rugby

Postby STMKY » Tue, 29 Dec 2020, 13:44

tryman wrote:The example of Jeremy Jordaan playing for Enisei and then getting a contract with Agen is a very good example of how things can work out if you are looking for a contract in the other European leagues. According to wiki Jordaan scored 11 tries for Enisei.
I wonder how much are contracts worth in Russia?

Several thousand $ a month. If FRR returns to the optimal structure of our championship according to the summer system, then Russia will be open to active Super Rugby players. They will be able to play in Russia from July to October. For these players, salaries can rise to $ 10,000 per month.

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Re: Russian Rugby

Postby STMKY » Tue, 29 Dec 2020, 13:48

Saffas players in Russian clubs is one thing. But moving Cheetahs to Russia is different. Russia needs 2-3 strong foreign teams to raise the level of our championship.

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Re: Russian Rugby

Postby tryman » Tue, 29 Dec 2020, 16:26

STMKY wrote:
tryman wrote:The example of Jeremy Jordaan playing for Enisei and then getting a contract with Agen is a very good example of how things can work out if you are looking for a contract in the other European leagues. According to wiki Jordaan scored 11 tries for Enisei.
I wonder how much are contracts worth in Russia?

Several thousand $ a month. If FRR returns to the optimal structure of our championship according to the summer system, then Russia will be open to active Super Rugby players. They will be able to play in Russia from July to October. For these players, salaries can rise to $ 10,000 per month.


That does make it very appealing for South Africans (or any nationality) especially as the Rand is in a bad way and has been for some time. A 6 month stint in Russia would be a great experience for any 23/24 year old. On the back of it they could get a medical joker contract in the TOP14 or Pro D2.

Look at a guy like Marty Banks.. he had a year in Russia, Italy (in which they won 11 Pro14 games that season) and a couple of seasons in Japan. Fantastic adventures while earning a good wage. Class player and could easily command great money in the Top14.

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Re: Russian Rugby

Postby thatrugbyguy » Wed, 30 Dec 2020, 08:57

Interesting that the article mentions Japan is effectively no longer able to offer contracts to foreign players because they have run out of positions. I didn’t realise so many South Africans had made the journey to Russia for a career.

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Re: Russian Rugby

Postby STMKY » Wed, 30 Dec 2020, 15:00

This is just the beginning of a big Saffas wave in Russia. There is also an opportunity for Cheetahs, Pumas and Griqas to move to Russia as a teams. 30-35 players + 5-6 coaches. Project for 5 years. 100% funding from the Russian Rugby Union. Annual salary fund in Russia for:
Cheetahs (200 million rubles = 2.7 million $)
Pumas (150 million rubles = 2 million $)
Griqas (150 million rubles = 2 million $)

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Re: Russian Rugby

Postby victorsra » Wed, 30 Dec 2020, 16:33

STMKY wrote:Saffas players in Russian clubs is one thing. But moving Cheetahs to Russia is different. Russia needs 2-3 strong foreign teams to raise the level of our championship.

And what is the difference? :lol: You can just buy their players, period. Delusional nonsense as usual.

Btw, if PRO16 Saffas want to be in the Champions Cup by 2022-23, this would mean a 24-teams Champions Cup (nobody will accept to lose spots for them). This means also that the Challenge Cup could be expanded the same way to mirror it (not necessarily, but maybe). This means South Africa could bid for Challenge Cup spots for their Currie Cup, which also means no need for a Cheetahs-in-exile. Isn't that their goal, anyway?

STMKY wrote:This is just the beginning of a big Saffas wave in Russia. There is also an opportunity for Cheetahs, Pumas and Griqas to move to Russia as a teams. 30-35 players + 5-6 coaches. Project for 5 years. 100% funding from the Russian Rugby Union. Annual salary fund in Russia for:
Cheetahs (200 million rubles = 2.7 million $)
Pumas (150 million rubles = 2 million $)
Griqas (150 million rubles = 2 million $)


Source?

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Re: Russian Rugby

Postby STMKY » Wed, 30 Dec 2020, 17:04

victorsra wrote:
STMKY wrote:Saffas players in Russian clubs is one thing. But moving Cheetahs to Russia is different. Russia needs 2-3 strong foreign teams to raise the level of our championship.

And what is the difference? :lol: You can just buy their players, period. Delusional nonsense as usual.

Source?

This is still at the level of rumors. I cannot divulge the source.

A big difference! Don't you understand that? Example. The budget of the Strela Kazan club is 300 million rubles. They have only 2 coaches from South Africa. Yes, they are great players, but they are rookie coaches. And 8 players from South Africa. This is the maximum quota. Some of them have some experience in Super Rugby and Currie Cup, some have a maximum of Division 1 Currie Cup. And there are over 30 Russian players. 7-8 players of the former Kuban. Several players from Krasnoyarsk schools who could not get into Enisei and Krasny Yar, as well as local players and players from other cities of a low level. That is, the players in the team are of very different levels.
Compare with Cheetahs. These are 30-35 players with Super Rugby and PRO14 experience. And 5-6 experienced coaches. The team's budget is 200 million rubles on salaries + 50 million on other expenses. Even less than in Kazan. But I think you understand how much stronger Cheetahs is than Strela. And how useful such a rival will be to all Russian clubs. There is money in Russia. But our clubs do not want to see even in the European Challenge Cup. Why can't we invite strong teams from South Africa if they need money? This is a mutually beneficial project.

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Re: Russian Rugby

Postby Vova12 » Wed, 30 Dec 2020, 17:25

I think need to ask Santa Claus for help!
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Re: Russian Rugby

Postby victorsra » Wed, 30 Dec 2020, 18:15

Oh, you are inventing, so.

Cheetahs have such structure and those players because they had money from South African Rugby Union and sponsorship due to their participation in the PRO14. Without PRO14, the best players will leave, obviosuly. And their Union already cut such money, as they kicked them out of the PRO14. The Russian league is not valuable for South African sponsors, obviously. This means Cheetahs would need Russian money to move to Russia. If there is people willing to put money on Russian money, just put on your own clubs :lol: You don't need to "buy" a not-valuable foreign brand. Japan already showed the way. Build a domestic league with local players mixed with high profile foreigners. No neeed of buying foreigner franchises :roll: .

You are walking in circles creating fake news as usual.

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Re: Russian Rugby

Postby STMKY » Wed, 30 Dec 2020, 18:19

Hard case! It's not about brands, but about strong rivals for Russian clubs. This requires strong foreign TEAMS in the Russian championship.

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Re: Russian Rugby

Postby victorsra » Wed, 30 Dec 2020, 18:34

Yep, but you can make your clubs stronger (with better and more international squads) while building international cups (with the Cheetahs invited for them, why not?). But you don't need to relocate the Cheetahs a whole season as part of your league.

Not only the third European Cup would be welcome, but an Asian Champions Cup for 15-a-side too. The one anounced is 7-a-side, which doesn't help much. Eastern Russian clubs need to face Japanese clubs.

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Re: Russian Rugby

Postby Rebus » Wed, 30 Dec 2020, 19:24

Why cant Russian clubs apply to join the Pro league ? If some clubs had bigger budgets than the smaller SA clubs then why cant they join the Pro league. There is no relegation and there is immediate access to a high calibre of team than they would face in a third tier European competition.
Also , there would be a more global or at least pan European exposure to attract more corporate money.

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Re: Russian Rugby

Postby victorsra » Wed, 30 Dec 2020, 21:17

My guess is that the only Russian clubs that would have conditions for that are the Siberians, which wouldn't be welcomed by the PRO16. Also, PRO16 is played during the winter, which is a big issue for Russia.

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Re: Russian Rugby

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Wed, 30 Dec 2020, 23:25

Pro16 has enough teams.

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Re: Russian Rugby

Postby STMKY » Thu, 31 Dec 2020, 07:37

Russia can create its own PRO league by analogy with PRO16 or the KHL hockey league.
This is a KRL project. 10 Russian PRO clubs + foreign PRO teams. Let's say in 2021 it could be 10 Rus clubs + Cheetahs, Pumas and Griquas. And in 2022 even better Romanian and Georgian teams can be added. There are 16-18 teams in total. Games from April-May to September-October.
New stadiums, great weather, perfect grass, TV broadcasts of all matches!

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Re: Russian Rugby

Postby Vova12 » Thu, 31 Dec 2020, 08:29

Perfect grass, thats enough! :D
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Re: Russian Rugby

Postby STMKY » Thu, 31 Dec 2020, 15:22

The sports TV channel Match TV has published ratings for 2020. Top most watched rugby games of the 2020 season:
https://rugby.ru/news/match-rossiya-rum ... siya-goda/
Russia - Romania (European Championship) 2,789,370 TV viewers
CSKA - Kuban (Russian Championship) 1,629,229
Slava - Lokomotiv (Russian Championship) 1,560,024
Argentina - Australia (Three Nations) 1,516,960
Enisey-STM - Krasny Yar (Russian Cup) 1,491,151
Slava - Enisey-STM (Russian Championship) 1,466,306
Strela - Bulava (Russian Championship) 1,461,933
Enisey-STM - Metallurg (Russian Championship) 1,193,268
Krasny Yar - Slava (Russian Championship) 1,181,359
Enisei-STM - Krasny Yar (Russian Championship) 1,134,439
Enisei-STM - VVA (Russian Championship) 1,093,330
Locomotiv - VVA (Russian Championship) 1,037,327
Krasny Yar - Strela (Russian Championship) 970,820

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Re: Russian Rugby

Postby victorsra » Thu, 31 Dec 2020, 16:00

Those are indeed good numbers.

Does it place rugby above other team sports like basketball, volleyball, bandy...?

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Re: Russian Rugby

Postby STMKY » Thu, 31 Dec 2020, 17:27

There are no exact numbers. But I think rugby is watched less.

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Re: Russian Rugby

Postby 2blackrooks » Fri, 01 Jan 2021, 11:52

Has the idea of developing a league along with Romania and Georgia, you could even include a Zebre, Benneton 2nd team to get things started

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Re: Russian Rugby

Postby STMKY » Fri, 01 Jan 2021, 13:11

Yes, you are thinking in the right direction. We keep 10 Russian PRO clubs. Do not need more. We direct resources to them. In 2021 we invite Cheetahs, Pumas and Griquas. We invite the best Romanian and Georgian teams from 2022. If Beneton and Zebre lose their places in PRO16. Then we invite them to KRL too. The level of this league in 2-3 years will make it possible to talk with the EPCR about the inclusion of several KRL teams to the Champions Cup and the Challenge Cup.

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Re: Russian Rugby

Postby STMKY » Fri, 01 Jan 2021, 13:27

As for the invitation to the KRL of Romanian and Georgian teams. Romania has Top-3 clubs Steaua Bucharest, Timisoara and Baia Mare. I think that 2 or 3 can agree to play KRL. There are no club leaders in Georgia. But it is possible to concentrate the best players of the Georgian championship in 2-3 teams. There are several clubs in Tbilisi. I believe it is prudent to create a Dinamo Tbilisi franchise that will play home matches at the Dinamo Stadium (50,000 seats). Dinamo Tbilisi is the most famous sport brand in Georgia. In Soviet times, they gathered tens of thousands of spectators for football. Russians remember this brand. There are also two clubs Batumi (new stadium with 20,000 seats) and Aia Kutaisi. This is the most titled club in Georgia. Aia were champions of the USSR 3 times.
That is, 2-3 Romanian teams and 2-3 Georgian teams will be an excellent option for expanding the KRL.

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