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Spanish rugby

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby victorsra » Wed, 10 Jun 2020, 20:43

Armchair Fan wrote:Sam Katz interviews Michael Walker-Fitton in English on his experience playing abroad, mostly in Spain given they both played for El Salvador:
https://rugbyabroad.com/podcast/episode ... er-fitton/

--

Paracuellos Rugby Club presented the project for their Ciudad del Rugby supported by FER. I found it quite underwhelming even though I was told on social media that the theoretical high performance center for national union would be 200 meters away, hence not showing up in the presentation:
https://sway.office.com/OWFiQVDrgGyYLk63?ref=Link

--

FER elections will finally happen in July, with Assembly being voted on July 3 and reuniting for the first time on July 24 to pick the new president. They will have to vote a few key questions on the closest future of national competition, with several options and formats considered given circumstances.

easy to go from Madrid's center?
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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Wed, 10 Jun 2020, 20:53

No. But I don't really mind, it isn't aimed at hosting big games. There will always be Central and football stadiums elsewhere for that purpose. This should be for national events, training camps, courses...

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby victorsra » Wed, 10 Jun 2020, 21:02

Armchair Fan wrote:No. But I don't really mind, it isn't aimed at hosting big games. There will always be Central and football stadiums elsewhere for that purpose. This should be for national events, training camps, courses...

if we had that for the national team would be a dream that solves many problems....
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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby vino_93 » Wed, 10 Jun 2020, 21:22

What's the difference between ciudad del rugby and high performance center ?

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Wed, 10 Jun 2020, 22:30

Good question. Unfortunately the high performance center here is just an add-on to Paracuellos Rugby Club project. This is their club house with the promise of sharing facilities with FER and building 200 metres away another building for FER needs (gym, residence...), not the high performance center exclusively dedicated to FER one would dream of in line with Langford for Canada, for example. It's an improvement but not the real deal to me.

Anyway let's not forget we have elections next month and if new guys arrive they may have other ideas. I know there are other projects yet to see the light in other regions.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Fri, 12 Jun 2020, 15:24

FER has revealed its plan for return to rugby roadmap:
http://ferugby.es/plan-ferugby-para-que ... -de-seguro

Three dates have been revealed for the potential start of División de Honor:
- 20 September (confirmation deadline: 17 July)
- 11 October (confirmation deadline: 7 August)
- 15 November (confirmation deadline: 11 September)

In social and underage rugby no games will be allowed until at least October, with touch rugby favored until at least December.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Mon, 15 Jun 2020, 10:39

VRAC says their budget will be reduced from 950,000€ to 600,000€ for next season:
https://www.eldiadevalladolid.com/amp/n ... vOOlBhJicY

Many talk about how crisis will give more playing time to homebred players but I'm really skeptical. Salary cuts in professional leagues will mean many players are available and clubs may simply sign players of a lesser quality compared to the last few years.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Wed, 17 Jun 2020, 10:48

Valor de Rugby (opposition) presented today its manifesto:
http://www.valorderugby.es/wp-content/u ... WEB-ok.pdf

Short summary from the press conference and press release:
- “We must reach 2023 RWC whatever it takes, but we must reach 2027 RWC whatever it takes as well with a majority of homebred players”
- A deal must be reached with a Tier 1 country for development purposes, being South Africa an intersting partner given the same time zone and previous experiences with Argentina and Georgia
- Doubling sponsorship revenues and cut by half club expenditure in national competitions entries
- Hosting a Sevens World Series round, with an international event à la Oktoberfest Sevens being launched before any proposal to World Rugby to showcase capability
- Gathering U16-U17-U18 'tribes' (not national teams) regularly, probably in the lines of basketball work every summer. The main difference is that basketball actually has official competitions...
- Emerging sides for both men and women who would see their competition level progressively increased until reaching franchises with 23 local players and 10 pros
- Doubling the number of coaches in two years
- Agreement with Clubs Association to ensure TV broadcasting, good scheduling, player release...
- Only six non-eligible players per match sheet in División de Honor
- National high performance centre in a yet to be unveiled location plus five regional centres
- Differenciating between amateur and pro rugby, with amateur national teams being proposed

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby thatrugbyguy » Wed, 17 Jun 2020, 12:50

How realistic are those goals?

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Wed, 17 Jun 2020, 14:14

In how many years? ;)

They are unrealistic in many points, but at the same they have realised there is much more potential than people in our own rugby believe and think they must go all-in this time... His speech of becoming Tier 1 in ten years and RWC contenders in thirty is simply unbelievable, but what's the alternative? Who is going to buy a sport where reaching RWC is a success in a country who regularly clinches Olympic, World and European medals in football, basketball, handball, hockey, waterpolo...?

The main issue is not whether these goals are realistic, it's how to sustain the whole program financially.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Wed, 17 Jun 2020, 14:26

I like the idea of amateur national teams. I would like to see more countries with national amateur teams. I would love to see England Counties vs Spanish amateurs.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby thatrugbyguy » Wed, 17 Jun 2020, 15:12

Armchair Fan wrote:In how many years? ;)

They are unrealistic in many points, but at the same they have realised there is much more potential than people in our own rugby believe and think they must go all-in this time... His speech of becoming Tier 1 in ten years and RWC contenders in thirty is simply unbelievable, but what's the alternative? Who is going to buy a sport where reaching RWC is a success in a country who regularly clinches Olympic, World and European medals in football, basketball, handball, hockey, waterpolo...?

The main issue is not whether these goals are realistic, it's how to sustain the whole program financially.


What was the impact when Spain qualified for RWC 1999 out of curiosity?

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Wed, 17 Jun 2020, 15:51

A few of us found out about rugby on TV, Australia came in 2001 drawing a big crowd and then a long decline of almost a decade until Sonnes arrival.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Working Class Rugger » Wed, 17 Jun 2020, 18:48

Armchair Fan wrote:In how many years? ;)

They are unrealistic in many points, but at the same they have realised there is much more potential than people in our own rugby believe and think they must go all-in this time... His speech of becoming Tier 1 in ten years and RWC contenders in thirty is simply unbelievable, but what's the alternative? Who is going to buy a sport where reaching RWC is a success in a country who regularly clinches Olympic, World and European medals in football, basketball, handball, hockey, waterpolo...?

The main issue is not whether these goals are realistic, it's how to sustain the whole program financially.


If they can keep the numbers in terms of people playing growing I think T1.5 (so too good to be considered T2 but not quite T1 yet. Think up until recently Japan) isn't outside the realms of possibility. What will be needed is a well developed and implemented plan to get there.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby victorsra » Wed, 17 Jun 2020, 19:34

Armchair Fan wrote:In how many years? ;)

They are unrealistic in many points, but at the same they have realised there is much more potential than people in our own rugby believe and think they must go all-in this time... His speech of becoming Tier 1 in ten years and RWC contenders in thirty is simply unbelievable, but what's the alternative? Who is going to buy a sport where reaching RWC is a success in a country who regularly clinches Olympic, World and European medals in football, basketball, handball, hockey, waterpolo...?

The main issue is not whether these goals are realistic, it's how to sustain the whole program financially.

Same drama here. But if we look at all nations that failed to be in the 2019 RWC, Spain is probably the most developed overall, if we look at the number of clubs (and their structure), number of real players, attendances for the national team....
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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Wed, 17 Jun 2020, 19:59

Yes, but it's still an unknown how to monetise that participation in many aspects. It was said during the press conference, they want to make sure companies know there are rugby events with 3,000 kids being held in Spain and there is value for them there. But what if that doesn't convince them? Or if they aren't willing to put the amount of money needed?

We already know World Rugby isn't going to move a finger anyway and current FER amateur leadership is right on its limit, so maybe it's worth the risk, but if they fail...

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby victorsra » Wed, 17 Jun 2020, 22:12

The about convincing the sponsors is much more tied to how are their ties with the Union. Personal ties or only commercial? Sometimes it is important to mix both, to have stability but also show you deliver.
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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Tobar » Thu, 18 Jun 2020, 01:40

Armchair Fan wrote:A few of us found out about rugby on TV, Australia came in 2001 drawing a big crowd and then a long decline of almost a decade until Sonnes arrival.


Back in 1999 professionalism was still in its infancy. If they made this past RWC I wonder how many Top 14 and Pro D2 players would have made the move to play for Spain. You had mentioned some names at the time so I know it isn’t pure fantasy.

While I don’t think that grabbing foreign born players is the best strategy for growing a sport, I do believe that it would provide the country with a much better result. More wins at a high level brings more fans and more sponsors. It could have a spillover effect to growing interest in the sport.

Surely back in 2001 there was renewed interest in the sport but that quickly faded, likely because the team never sustained any success.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby jesusg9 » Thu, 18 Jun 2020, 10:31

Armchair Fan wrote:Valor de Rugby (opposition) presented today its manifesto:
http://www.valorderugby.es/wp-content/u ... WEB-ok.pdf

Short summary from the press conference and press release:
- “We must reach 2023 RWC whatever it takes, but we must reach 2027 RWC whatever it takes as well with a majority of homebred players”
- A deal must be reached with a Tier 1 country for development purposes, being South Africa an intersting partner given the same time zone and previous experiences with Argentina and Georgia
- Doubling sponsorship revenues and cut by half club expenditure in national competitions entries
- Hosting a Sevens World Series round, with an international event à la Oktoberfest Sevens being launched before any proposal to World Rugby to showcase capability
- Gathering U16-U17-U18 'tribes' (not national teams) regularly, probably in the lines of basketball work every summer. The main difference is that basketball actually has official competitions...
- Emerging sides for both men and women who would see their competition level progressively increased until reaching franchises with 23 local players and 10 pros
- Doubling the number of coaches in two years
- Agreement with Clubs Association to ensure TV broadcasting, good scheduling, player release...
- Only six non-eligible players per match sheet in División de Honor
- National high performance centre in a yet to be unveiled location plus five regional centres
- Differenciating between amateur and pro rugby, with amateur national teams being proposed


Hi,
I'd like to add just a single point to this excellent summary:
The aspirant team is composed maily by a group of very high professional profiles used to business management , aside of their Rugby curriculums, probably higher than many of the other sucessfull sports.
This is the main differential fact between cadidatures, wheather it'll be good or not .... it's another tale.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Sat, 20 Jun 2020, 11:18

This Twitter thread may be interesting for those curious about Valladolid rugby infrastructure, with photos of the current state of Campos de Pepe Rojo:
https://twitter.com/TetoTorres68/status ... 5764261891

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Thomas » Sat, 20 Jun 2020, 11:35

Armchair Fan wrote:This Twitter thread may be interesting for those curious about Valladolid rugby infrastructure, with photos of the current state of Campos de Pepe Rojo:
https://twitter.com/TetoTorres68/status ... 5764261891


A lot of maintenance work in the last few months. very nice.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Thomas » Sat, 20 Jun 2020, 11:39

Armchair Fan wrote:Good question. Unfortunately the high performance center here is just an add-on to Paracuellos Rugby Club project. This is their club house with the promise of sharing facilities with FER and building 200 metres away another building for FER needs (gym, residence...), not the high performance center exclusively dedicated to FER one would dream of in line with Langford for Canada, for example. It's an improvement but not the real deal to me.

Anyway let's not forget we have elections next month and if new guys arrive they may have other ideas. I know there are other projects yet to see the light in other regions.


Definitely interested what happens on this aspect and the point about National high performance centre in a yet to be unveiled location plus five regional centres


Long overdue. they need to take a page from the other Olympic sports. The Spanish Olympic Committee has the High Performance Centre couldn't FER use it or at least learn from it and how to build one dedicated to the sport?

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Sat, 20 Jun 2020, 11:58

Of course FER uses NOC High Performance Centres (CAR), but activities have increased so much there isn't space for all national teams there. It isn't easy to find space for squads and staff of over 30 people while hosting sevens and underage sides as well plus dozens of other sports. Rugby has outgrown current capacity.

Sevens often are at Blume residence in Madrid (CAR) and do their preseason training camp in Sierra Nevada (CAR). Fifteens have tended to use Sant Cugat (CAR) for midweek camps because it's closer to France. But there is so much going on with national teams that FER activities have gone beyond these centres: Valladolid, Guadalajara, La Vila, Jaca... have all seen national teams camps in the last couple of years.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby io.porcorosso » Sun, 21 Jun 2020, 10:03

Probably it has been posted already, so sorry to ask for an existing information.
Which will it be the composition of the DH next season?
Relegation/promotion will be declared for the last season or not?

Thanks!!!
Cheers PR-WSM

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Sun, 21 Jun 2020, 12:14

Yes, Hernani was relegated and Getxo promoted. 12 teams as usual.

There are rumours about Bathco CR Santander selling its spot to Ingenieros Industriales de Las Rozas but nothing confirmed yet.

There is a proposal to create an 8-team league between DH and DHB to accommodate Hernani and the seven teams that should have played promotion playoffs but that must be approved by FER General Assembly in late July.

Three tentative schedules have been released with starts of the season in September, October or November.

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