Tier 2 & 3 Rugby Forum

Spanish rugby

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Tue, 10 Nov 2020, 02:18

Almost year round. On paper and in a normal season, it runs between September and May, so very rarely players are contracted full time. And many clubs just wait until the end of Mitre 10 or Currie Cup to hire players, which arrive in December or January, therefore reducing their total salary costs.

Scheduling is so tight to reduce costs that sometimes foreigners are no longer here in May (regular season over) and second-to-last DH and second-best DHB teams must face relegation play-off without their full squads. Two years ago La Vila had to crowdfund it (20,000€ was the demanded support IIRC).

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Tue, 10 Nov 2020, 14:26

Now that the dust has settled, with all promotions and relegations completed, this is the current composition of División de Honor B:

Group A
Hernani (Gipuzkoa, Euskadi) - relegated from División de Honor
Zarautz (Gipuzkoa, Euskadi)
AVK Bera Bera (Gipuzkoa, Euskadi)
AVIA Eibar (Gipuzkoa, Euskadi)
Gernika (Bizkaia, Euskadi)
Valtecsa Universitario de Bilbao (Bizkaia, Euskadi)
Uribealdea (Bizkaia, Euskadi)
Gaztedi (Araba, Euskadi)
La Única (Navarra) - promoted
Pasek Belenos (Asturias)
Campus Universitario Ourense (Ourense, Galicia)
Ferrol (A Coruña, Galicia) - Vigo gave them their spot

Absent:
Kaleido Universidade de Vigo (Pontevedra, Galicia) - amateur players decided to decline due to COVID
Bathco Rugby Club/CR Santander (Cantabria) - declined due to insufficient budget
Real Oviedo (Asturias) - relegated from División de Honor B


Group B
CAU Valencia (Valencia, Comunitat Valenciana)
RC Valencia (Valencia, Comunitat Valenciana)
Tatami Rugby Club (Valencia, Comunitat Valenciana)
La Vila (Alicante, Comunitat Valenciana)
Akra Bárbara (Alicante, Comunitat Valenciana) - promoted
XV Babarians Calviá (Balearic Islands)
Universidad San Jorge Fénix (Zaragoza, Aragón)
L'Hospitalet (Barcelona, Catalunya)
Poble Nou (Barcelona, Catalunya)
Sant Cugat (Barcelona, Catalunya)
BUC Barcelona (Barcelona, Catalunya)
Gòtics (Barcelona, Catalunya) - promoted

Absent:
Les Abelles (Valencia, Comunitat Valenciana) - promoted to División de Honor due to Bathco's demise
XV Rugby Murcia (Murcia) - relegated


Group C
Ingenieros Industriales de Las Rozas (Madrid)
Pozuelo Rugby Union (Madrid)
Liceo Francés (Madrid)
Arquitectura (Madrid)
Majadahonda (Madrid)
CAR Cáceres (Cáceres, Extremadura)
Jaén Rugby (Jaén, Andalucía)
Union Rugby Almería (Almería, Andalucía)
CR Málaga (Málaga, Andalucía)
Marbella Rugby Club (Málaga, Andalucía)
CAR Coanda Sevilla (Sevilla, Andalucía)
Rugby Mairena (Sevilla, Andalucía)

Absent:
CAU Madrid (Madrid) - merged with CRC Pozuelo into Pozuelo Rugby Union
XV Hortaleza (Madrid) - relegated

It's awfully hard to predict who are contenders for promotion given current climate due to COVID. Not everybody will manage to keep their usual budgets and even if they do, training will be affected by restrictions in different regions even if national competitions are allowed to carry on. For example in Group C we've seen Jaén underperform after winning their pool last season, while Pozuelo merger seems to have backfired: draw against a proudly amateur Málaga and defeat at home against Almería, early leaders.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby victorsra » Tue, 10 Nov 2020, 15:35

What about the traditional Basque clubs, Gernika, Hernani...?

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Tue, 10 Nov 2020, 15:58

Hernani only played one game against newly-promoted La Única so it's too early to say. Losing to Les Abelles in the last-minute playoff doesn't sound promising, but they should be in the mix.

Gernika is heavily reliant on foreign signings and Getxo having been promoted to DH means quite a budgetary blow since most provincial subsidies go to the club in top tier. They have started well but lost by quite a margin v Hernani in a preseason game...

As I said it's going to be harder than usual to predict and we will probably see bouncing performances during the season if COVID restrictions don't stabilise.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby victorsra » Tue, 10 Nov 2020, 17:38

And what about La Vila? Strong in the past.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Tue, 10 Nov 2020, 18:02

Started the season with a points deduction for fielding too many non-JIFF players. Like Gernika, it's reliant on foreign players so it's a big question mark.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby victorsra » Tue, 10 Nov 2020, 18:56

Armchair Fan wrote:Almost year round. On paper and in a normal season, it runs between September and May, so very rarely players are contracted full time. And many clubs just wait until the end of Mitre 10 or Currie Cup to hire players, which arrive in December or January, therefore reducing their total salary costs.

Scheduling is so tight to reduce costs that sometimes foreigners are no longer here in May (regular season over) and second-to-last DH and second-best DHB teams must face relegation play-off without their full squads. Two years ago La Vila had to crowdfund it (20,000€ was the demanded support IIRC).

Ok, so that's why it is less than what I thought.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby victorsra » Tue, 10 Nov 2020, 18:58

It would be great to have a list of average budgets of clubs in semi-pro and minor pro leagues. DH, TOP10, Didi10, Superliga, RRPL, MLR, SLAR.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Tue, 10 Nov 2020, 20:13

victorsra wrote:It would be great to have a list of average budgets of clubs in semi-pro and minor pro leagues. DH, TOP10, Didi10, Superliga, RRPL, MLR, SLAR.


I think this is the sort of information World Rugby should be collecting and sharing, along with a professional and elite player database.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby victorsra » Wed, 11 Nov 2020, 01:10

This and real census of rugby players around the world.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Wed, 11 Nov 2020, 02:25

Armchair Fan wrote:
Raven wrote:
Armchair Fan wrote:Yes, he isn't the only Chilean in the league. Aldo Cornejo is in Independiente and acts as S&C coach there, Nico Herreros and Augusto Sarmiento are in Burgos and there is probably somebody else who didn't play this week. In previous seasons we had Velarde brothers, Bordigoni, Verschae, Casas...


Correct me if I´m wrong but it wouldn´t be at all surprising if in Division de Honor and DHB we´d find several South Americans playing who aren´t only from Argentina, Uruguay or, as mentioned above, Chile... That would be interesting to know about (although as stated before, they would struggle to travel South America and play for their national team)

Yes, there are a few but given their family names and the unreliability of FER database's nationalities it's a bit hard to follow. I know there are guys with credible links (either born there or with parents coming from there) with Colombia, Peru, Brazil, Paraguay (some even capped), even Cuba, Dominicana or Venezuela (a lot, probably enough to create an exiles side)... but their more-amateur-than-pro status and centralised systems being implemented at home make it unlikely for them to ever play (again) with their national teams.


I can't believe I forgot to mention a pretty obvious Venezuelan case. Mattius Pisapia was born there but grew in Almería and is capped with Spain. And as mentioned just a few posts earlier, Mauri Londoño is from Colombia but has trained and played some unofficial tournaments for Spain 7s.

Just recently I found out that people born abroad represent 16% of Spanish population (over 7.2 million and that's only taking into account those registered, many EU citizens don't even bother). And it rises to 30% in provinces like Madrid, Barcelona, Alicante, Málaga, while Balearic Islands and Girona near or exceed 40%. My province is a pretty obvious example: our clubs have formed six players who reached national team in the last few years, of which only one was actually born here.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby CherryCoffin » Wed, 11 Nov 2020, 09:52

Where does rugby rank in the popularity of sports in Spain, both nationally and regionally? Obviously football is first and I think basketball is second but not sure after that nor about the regional differences

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Wed, 11 Nov 2020, 10:21

Far behind football, basketball, handball, futsal, even rink hockey in Catalunya... and I'm only talking about team sports. And volleyball has twice as many players, even though I wouldn't say it currently has more presence in media than rugby.

Rugby is 22nd in licences and 5th among team sports but bear in mind futsal and beach volleyball are integrated in their big brothers' federations.

Some pages ago I published a few maps that may help you to understand regional differences:
Image
Image

1. Madrid - 0.911
2. Valladolid - 0.904
3. Barcelona - 0.866
4. Gipuzkoa - 0.798
5. Valencia - 0.797
6. Bizkaia - 0.684
7. Sevilla - 0.637
8. Cantabria - 0.628
9. Baleares - 0.563
10. Burgos - 0.539

This index is pretty accurate, besides the fact I created it :lol: The Top 8 for example have radio shows dedicated to rugby, which prove the sport is relevant enough to get its media coverage over there.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby CherryCoffin » Wed, 11 Nov 2020, 16:40

My thanks, and how about in the media? Having its own regional radio shows is good but is there much more than that? It definitely looks like Spain is trending in the right direction though! (I hope)

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Wed, 11 Nov 2020, 17:25

Well, it could be better.

There is a huge cliff after Real Madrid and Barcelona, then another for the rest of football, then another big one after basketball, motorsports, tennis and cycling. And then comes a small space where rugby must fight with others like handball, athletics... In public TV news, rugby has been the 10th most featured sport in the last couple of years, showing up for 41 days in 2018 and 50 days in 2019.

Six Nations and Rugby World Cup get quite some following, but it's more from a folkloric point of view. Most rugby is in Movistar, pay TV. Only national rugby and national teams reaches FTA coverage and our clubs have been basically jerks when given the opportunity to feature there. Currently our domestic league relies on streaming.

There are a couple of websites, a subscription magazine (Desde la línea de Veintidós) and El Salvador forum, and that's it.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Charvis » Wed, 11 Nov 2020, 17:47

On the topic of Venezuelan Players, Eduardo Hernández is currently playing his second season as hooker at CD Arquitectura in División de Honor B. Not a star signing but solid for that tier and working hard for the club with underage and womens teams. Nice bloke.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby ficcp » Wed, 11 Nov 2020, 17:48

I would suppose the Press of Valladolid informs a lot about Rugby. Is not the most succesful sport in that city?

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Wed, 11 Nov 2020, 18:40

Yes. But it's local coverage. A couple of newspapers, a couple of radio shows and regional TV sometimes broadcasting their games.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Raven » Thu, 12 Nov 2020, 10:40

Charvis wrote:On the topic of Venezuelan Players, Eduardo Hernández is currently playing his second season as hooker at CD Arquitectura in División de Honor B. Not a star signing but solid for that tier and working hard for the club with underage and womens teams. Nice bloke.


I sympathise with Arquitectura, have they signed / added any more players that you know of? there's not a lot of news regarding Div. Hon B signings...

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Thu, 12 Nov 2020, 12:10

If I'm not mistaken, Arquitectura has another shocking foreign-born player: a young Georgian fullback who spent some time in Zamora earlier on. That must be quite an interesting story.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby victorsra » Thu, 12 Nov 2020, 13:46

Will Arquitectura build a competitive team? XD

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Thu, 12 Nov 2020, 14:02

I don't know what are their goals, but Group C is full of clubs openly targeting DH and Madrid has two clubs in DH and U23 league which attract a lot of local talent from DHB and regional clubs. Not easy to find your place in such a context.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby victorsra » Thu, 12 Nov 2020, 14:03

It was just a silly joke :p

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Charvis » Thu, 12 Nov 2020, 17:52

Mika, the young Geogian was living in Zamora under refugee status. Arquitectura has connections in that city and Mika had played underage rugby in Georgia and stood out in Zamora. I dont know the exact conditions offered but he is now in his second season at the club. He is a good tackler and ball carrier from fullback but he is sometimes a bit anarchic. The club is torn in two with some members aiming at promotion by signing players and others wishing to build a the club on home grown talent. De do not have the money to compete with some other clubs and not every club can go pro. We do find it hard to retain our best players who tend to move to Alcobendas, Cisneros or CRC. Some at the club say it is poaching. I believe it is down to other clubs having better coaching and facilities and competitive players looking for more competitive setups. It is also now usual for young players to switch clubs every so often but hopefully we will build better structures so our young players can fulfill their goals at the club. We desperately need our own ground because numbers in underage rugby are growing, results at u16, u14, etc are decent and our coaches are improving but we need stability and to decide once and for all what kind of club we want to be. Funnily enough we also attract players from lower division clubs and from more professional ones where young talented players find their progress stopped by signings.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Thu, 12 Nov 2020, 19:11

Thanks a lot, Charvis. I'm really glad somebody who knows way better than I do could offer such an explanation on daily discussions at the core of our clubs.

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