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The future of Italian Rugby

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby victorsra » Mon, 20 Apr 2020, 16:47

Treviso would probably return to the Italian Championship, where they've always played.

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby Canalina » Mon, 11 May 2020, 18:12

Google translated from an Italian page reporting an article by "The Times"

"It is time for Italy to be thrown out of the Six Nations. For the benefit of the reputation of the tournament and, paradoxically, of Italy". Thus begins a long editorial of the authoritative English newspaper 'The Times' in which, despite the agreements made until 2024, the presence of the blues in the oval oldest tournament in the world is put in doubt.

"In 20 seasons and an half - writes the 'Times' - Italy has achieved 12 victories in 103 games, an average of one every almost nine matches. Furthermore, Italy has not been able to score this year a single point against Wales and Scotland, losing 42-0 in Cardiff and 17-0 in Rome: it is a clear sign that the tournament needs a substantial turnaround."

It is then recalled that the only other national team to have obtained the privilege of challenging the British and Irish teams was France: "they entered in 1910 and before being excluded in 1931 due to the extreme violence in the game and because at club level they paid the players, they had made 12 victories in 17 editions of the competition: the average was therefore a success every five games, higher than that of the Italians now.
Then France took time, but in the mid-1950s it emerged as a power, winning titles. He had to wait until 1968 to make the Grand Slam, but it was worth it. The Bleus have added panache and originality to the game of rugby."

The theory of this editorial is that such progress seems precluded to Italy ("Italy does not show the slightest sign that they could become the 21st century France"), and therefore it would be better to return to measure yourself "in a competition in which they are favored, and not in one where they are dominated and beaten heavily. Romania and Georgia represent the level of competitiveness of their standards ".

After defining "an old cliché", the fact that it is much better to spend a "long weekend in Rome instead of Bucharest or Tbilisi", and hoping that he will return to the Five Nations, is reiterated that "gently expelling Italy would good for the tournament, for the reputation of the sport and of Italy itself ".


http://www.raisport.rai.it/articoli/202 ... c7ea6.html

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby sk 88 » Mon, 11 May 2020, 18:28

Article was by Stuart Barnes, prominent rugby writer and TV commentator, formerly a very good fly half for Bath and England who toured with the Lions in 1993.

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby 4N » Mon, 11 May 2020, 19:21

This seems like an argument that peaked a few years ago. They aren’t going to mess with the format when things are very vulnerable post-covid and Italy are actually showing some promising signs. They probably have their best group of young players since the early 2000s (Polledri, Negri, Cannone, Minozzi etc) and the U20s have been very competitive. The 9 & 10 for Italy U20 look especially talented which has been a weak point for them, particularly flyhalf since Dominguez retired.

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby sk 88 » Mon, 11 May 2020, 20:02

Barnes is just writing semi-trolling columns in the lock down. Done a few that are basically "Let's go back to the 90s".

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby Canalina » Mon, 11 May 2020, 20:36

That article sounded no outraging to me; to talk about an Italy defenestration is not blasphemous, I know that in twenty years we still haven't properly demonstrated to be part of the 6N history so I think that it's legit a debate about our permanence.
Anyway, as 4N wrote, this is probably one of the most promising moments for Italy, mostly at underage level, so that article seems a bit out of date.
I agree with the point about Romania and Georgia; I'd like to see more frequently (let's say once every two years) a game between Italy and Romania or Georgia. At the end of the day, they are European champions and vice-champions. With the fact that in summer Italy tour an other continent and in autumn we receive the nations of other continents, we end to play almost never with european teams outside 6N

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Mon, 11 May 2020, 20:42

sk 88 wrote:Barnes is just writing semi-trolling columns in the lock down. Done a few that are basically "Let's go back to the 90s".

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/im-n ... -h6nrt09q6

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby Bogdan_DC » Wed, 13 May 2020, 08:03

Great player but very annoying writer. Also very wrong for putting Italy and Romania in the same basket.

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby Higgik » Wed, 13 May 2020, 16:43

Canalina wrote:That article sounded no outraging to me; to talk about an Italy defenestration is not blasphemous, I know that in twenty years we still haven't properly demonstrated to be part of the 6N history so I think that it's legit a debate about our permanence.
Anyway, as 4N wrote, this is probably one of the most promising moments for Italy, mostly at underage level, so that article seems a bit out of date.
I agree with the point about Romania and Georgia; I'd like to see more frequently (let's say once every two years) a game between Italy and Romania or Georgia. At the end of the day, they are European champions and vice-champions. With the fact that in summer Italy tour an other continent and in autumn we receive the nations of other continents, we end to play almost never with european teams outside 6N

Like the idea of using the Autumn to play other European teams.

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Wed, 13 May 2020, 17:36

Higgik wrote:
Canalina wrote:That article sounded no outraging to me; to talk about an Italy defenestration is not blasphemous, I know that in twenty years we still haven't properly demonstrated to be part of the 6N history so I think that it's legit a debate about our permanence.
Anyway, as 4N wrote, this is probably one of the most promising moments for Italy, mostly at underage level, so that article seems a bit out of date.
I agree with the point about Romania and Georgia; I'd like to see more frequently (let's say once every two years) a game between Italy and Romania or Georgia. At the end of the day, they are European champions and vice-champions. With the fact that in summer Italy tour an other continent and in autumn we receive the nations of other continents, we end to play almost never with european teams outside 6N

Like the idea of using the Autumn to play other European teams.


The bottom Six Nations team should play the REC Champion every year in my opinion.

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby Canalina » Sat, 23 May 2020, 12:35

In half an hour the Italian Federation will re-transmit the 2018 Florence game between Italy and Georgia



On youtube there's also the one only previous game between Azzurri and Lelos, 2003 in Asti
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zgfj1BYBC4k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AvkSZfjBRg

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby Canalina » Sat, 18 Jul 2020, 09:00

Two american players from the last World Cup will play in Italy in the incoming season: Franco Lamanna (Uru, 28 years, third row, 44 caps) has been contracted by Top12's club Mogliano; Gordon McRorie (Can, flyhalf, 45 caps) will be both a player and the backs coach of ASR Milano, in second category

https://www.onrugby.it/2020/07/17/un-in ... sr-milano/

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby Canalina » Sat, 18 Jul 2020, 16:43

An interesting but vague indication emerged by the FIR council, hosted yesterday on line, is that the technical staff suggested to the the Federation, in a general vision of growth of the best young talents through the years, to widen the number of stages and games of the Italia Emergenti select (Emerging Italy)

The other indications were three hypothesis about the beginning of Top12 (September 26? November 7? January 9?) and the decision to let the Top12 teams to have a maximum of four stranger players in the roster, with no more than three of them in the match sheet

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby Canalina » Sun, 23 Aug 2020, 15:25

San Donà and Medicei Firenze withdraw from the Top12, due to scarcity of sponsors and money. The venetian team will restart from Serie B (=third category), the tuscanian team from Serie A (=second category).
To say the truth just San Donà officialized the renounce with a public communicate, but several rugby media write that also the Firenze's withdraw is sure.
The last day to make the inscription to the new season of the Top12 was yesterday.
Verona club said in the past weeks that they are ready to take the place of a renouncing team, but according to the rumors the championship could start with no substitutions, just as Top10 instead that Top12.
For our rugby panorama is particularly hurting the fail of the Medicei project; Florence is a big and famous city, it's renowned for its calcio fiorentino (a sort of medieval rugby) and it seemed an important step to enlarge the ambit of our top level out of the North/Rome diarchy.
The first purposed date for the start of the championship was September 26; probably during the incoming week the Federation will try to officialize the dates and the number of teams of the new season

https://www.onrugby.it/2020/08/23/i-med ... -al-top12/

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby Batti » Mon, 24 Aug 2020, 11:06

Are all the Top 12 players professional ?

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby Canalina » Mon, 24 Aug 2020, 12:27

I don't know where exactly the border between professionalism and amateurism lies, but I think very few of the Top12 players may be defined professional. As far as I know most of them, also in top team, are students or have an other job, with rugby giving them just a good extra. The only ones who just play rugby without working or studying are the stranger players, and not all of them. This, at least, it's what I know

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby victorsra » Mon, 24 Aug 2020, 14:02

Even Calvisano, Petrarca and Rovigo players have other jobs?

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Mon, 24 Aug 2020, 14:10

I've noticed there aren't very many foreigners. I feel like there used to be more. I wonder what the standard is like compared to Welsh Premiership, Scottish Super Six, Division de Honor etc.

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby RugbyLiebe » Mon, 24 Aug 2020, 15:14

Who holds the Pro14 rights in Italy atm? DAZN? So there is no broadcast on tv?
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby Canalina » Mon, 24 Aug 2020, 17:07

The Pro14 is shown by DAZN. Anyway they transmit just the games of Zebre and Benetton; they started to show all the games but after just one or two rounds they stopped to show the non-italian games, probably because the audience was really too low

There's a limitation about fieldable stranger players: until last year it was four strangers on the match sheet (if I'm not wrong) and from this season it will be maximum three strangers on the match sheet and maximum four on the roster. This stricter rule has been taken to help the less rich clubs, weakened by the economical crisis caused by the epidemic. I don't know which is the level of the Top12 in comparison with other championship; I just remember a welsh player, Gareth Griffiths, that several years ago came in my city without impressing at all; after one season he went in Valladolid and there he had a brilliant career on Division de Honor, with some national titles and at least one best general scorer prize. On the base of just that example I made the idea that the top of Division de Honor must correspond to the medium (or medium/low) level of Top12

The team of my city (Valorugby) is not one of the most blazoned but currently is one of the most rich and here all the italian players, as far as I know, are studying or working. Not rarely it's the team itself that founds a work to the newly arrived players; there are several cases of players, even not italian, that arrived in my city to play and remained here also after the end of the career. Silao Leaega (Samoa) and Viliami Vaki (Tonga) live here.
So I suppose this is true also for the other current top teams like Petrarca, Calvisano and Rovigo. Fiamme Oro is a case apart because they are the team of the police and so all the players are also policemen

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby victorsra » Mon, 24 Aug 2020, 17:41

By your description we can talk about a semi-professionalism, IMO.

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby Canalina » Mon, 24 Aug 2020, 17:46

Yes, I think it's the most fitting definition

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby Canalina » Sun, 30 Aug 2020, 07:11

The summer mercato of the Top12 teams, recently updated by OnRugby blog. So far it is extremely limited the number of players coming from abroad, probably due to pandemic problems: in the list I see just the tongan prop Halalilo, from Timisoara Saracens to Viadana. All the others are internal exchanges between the Top12 clubs.
The renounce to the championship by Firenze and San Donà seems official, it's instead still not known if they will be substituted (by Verona and an other club) or not

https://www.onrugby.it/2020/08/23/top12 ... -torneo-2/

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby Canalina » Fri, 04 Sep 2020, 16:41

The "Gazzetta dello Sport" newspapers informs that the new possible starting date of the italian championship is October 10 (it was September 26, according to a July's communicate by the Federation). The FIR council that will try to draw a roadmap and a calendar for the season is fixed to September 14

http://metadellaltromondo.gazzetta.it/2 ... ra-quando/

This instead is just a fancy amusement: an hypothetical italian "North vs South" like the kiwi one

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