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The future of Italian Rugby

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby welshdragon2000 » Fri, 12 Mar 2021, 15:26

And what are these guys looking to change?

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby io.porcorosso » Fri, 12 Mar 2021, 21:42

victorsra wrote:Who is projected to win?

It is hard to predict.
From a fan point of view is is hard to defend the present board, but fans do not vote, and clubs have demonstrate more than once that they follow different reason to elect their representatives.

So let's say that I, personally, hope to see Innocenti as a new president and I do hope to see a really different board.

We just need to wait few hours ...

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby io.porcorosso » Fri, 12 Mar 2021, 21:47

welshdragon2000 wrote:And what are these guys looking to change?

Their programs are pretty big, and quite obviously they put lights on innovation and new approach to rugby, I mean all of them but the present president, he cannot be critical toward himself.

Let's say that the big difference is that Innocenti/Poggiali are putting the focus on clubs/districs and - mostly Innocenti - on a complete reform of the domestic championship. While Gavazzi and Vaccari seems to put more attention on the development of the national side/pro14 keeping the center as an over ruling entity.

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Sat, 13 Mar 2021, 12:29


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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby io.porcorosso » Sat, 13 Mar 2021, 21:46

Yes.
The Innocenti/Poggiali group won with the 56% of votes, while Vaccari got 40% and the last president Gavazzi got just a 3%.

This mean that, at least for the intention, the Italian rugby seemed to have chosen to change the direction.

Now it has to be proven if there's still time to keep the positions gained in the past and if a real change could be set.

We will soon understand it.

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby victorsra » Sat, 13 Mar 2021, 21:56

Gavazzi only 3%?! That's a huge statement from Italian rugby.

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby io.porcorosso » Sat, 13 Mar 2021, 23:46

victorsra wrote:Gavazzi only 3%?! That's a huge statement from Italian rugby.

Actually, most say that his votes were massively given to Vaccari, his former dolphin, but it is anyway a clear signal passing from 55% to 3%. It means to loose all the authority of the past.

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby victorsra » Mon, 15 Mar 2021, 17:02

Do you think Innocenti's election will have an impact on how PRO14/16 teams are managed?

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby Canalina » Mon, 15 Mar 2021, 22:49

Bitter news from Top10: during Lazio-Viadana the argentinian back Ramiro Finco (Viadana) suffered a sudden illness, apparently without traumatic causes. After a Lazio's try he felt not good, started to walk away from the fellows, then bended on his knees and after some dozens seconds (in the while he was not anymore in the cameras) he was laydown on the grass and the medicians and the referee ran to him. After several minutes of on-the-field check he was transported to the principal Rome's hospital where he is now on intensive care
https://www.rugbyviadana1970.it/media/news/593

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby thatrugbyguy » Tue, 16 Mar 2021, 02:33

That's terrible. Hope he recovers.

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby io.porcorosso » Tue, 16 Mar 2021, 07:56

victorsra wrote:Do you think Innocenti's election will have an impact on how PRO14/16 teams are managed?

So, during the campaign and also after the election Innocenti has said and written that Zebre, being presently totally paid by FIR [except about 1mln they are able to gain by themselves] has to become privately owned to cost exactly as Benettòn costs to FIR. He added that if this doesn't happen, there're two subject that have already put their intention to take their place: Petrarca [there's an official plan and intention letter on the FIR table] and a non disclosed Englishman that has given a non written interest to take the license or to sustain Zebre, it is not clear.

This could lead to reply "yes" to your question, but most of the time in Italy, it is after a decision taking that committee start to protest, so it can happen that nothing changes.

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Tue, 16 Mar 2021, 16:07


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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby io.porcorosso » Tue, 16 Mar 2021, 22:52

Armchair Fan wrote:He sounds a bit overambitious... :roll:
https://www.gazzetta.it/Rugby/15-03-202 ... 1934.shtml

I mean, off course he could, and moreover the whole board will need to match with the structure of the Italian rugby, that is a bit hill.
But it is the first time, since I follow rugby, that a president take the way to not focus only on the national side.

He is not a superhero, and maybe we will just follow the decline we're facing, but he could represent a turning point. Not just to win again a match in a year at the 6N.

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby Canalina » Sat, 20 Mar 2021, 12:15

Finco still in intensive care with reserved prognosis. It seems a very serious situation

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby vino_93 » Sat, 20 Mar 2021, 17:19

What a game, what a tournament... Catastrophic.

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby Bolaroid » Wed, 31 Mar 2021, 07:14

Italy needs to focus on a defensive game they need keep tests competitive.

Italy are trying to play too much attacking rugby against superior teams.

It's okay to lose but Italy must stay in the fight.

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby andyrobnev » Wed, 31 Mar 2021, 12:22

It wasn’t a good tournament, but also a lot of game time went towards developing and showcasing some very bright young talent. The problem is that with the national team doing poorly, and with Benneton and Zebre not performing well, these players might just become accustomed to losing. This is why I really hope that Garbisi, Trulla, Mori and some of the other young guys move to top level Premiership and Top14 sides. They’re definitely good enough.

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby Canalina » Wed, 31 Mar 2021, 13:05

We were not impressed by the games of Trulla and Mori at the 6N, but they're still growing. Trulla seemed disoriented and oot of his level as fullback, mostly in the difensive situation; Mori appears to me at the moment a bit mono-dimensional, with just the straight run in his skills. The feeling is that Trulla (who still pays in Top10, so being in the 6N was a double jump for him) has to grow phisically and to mature mentally, and Mori has to wide the number of his skills.
Garbisi seems more promising; he still does mistakes but he has the confidence and the glance and the skills of a future captain

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby victorsra » Wed, 31 Mar 2021, 15:09

"Crazy thought" for fun: wouldn't it be interesting for Italy to partner with Argentina?

Let's see:

- Argentina wants a spot for Jaguares, but they would need to pay a big fee to enter the PRO16, that might not want them or another expansion (16 tastes the right size);

- Italy already owns 2 franchises and doesn't pay fees, they are now stakeowners of PRO16;

- Innocenti already said he wants to sell Zebre to a private part;

So, maybe, Zebre could become the Jaguares (saving UAR's brand, as an Italian-Argentine joint venture, with UAR and FIR sharing ownership) and the deal would include a minimum number of Italians in Jaguares's squad, making them appealing to an Italian audience (as they would be based in Italy and FIR would have a % of its ownership).

That would be a PRO16 Italian side that is properly competitive, while Benetton could also receive some Argentines. Let's say, 45 Italian and 35 Argentine players split between Jaguares and Benetton. Probably, both teams would be stronger than the current Benetton and Zebre.

With this, Innocenti could focus on making the Italian Top 10 stronger (IMO, it should be Top 8...), as promised, making it a better environment for young talent, while some key Azzurri players could try their careers in the French Top 14 and English Premiership as well.

Honestly, it would be a win-win situation for everybody. I'd make that deal.

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby geuvanio22 » Wed, 31 Mar 2021, 17:29

victorsra wrote:"Crazy thought" for fun: wouldn't it be interesting for Italy to partner with Argentina?

Let's see:

- Argentina wants a spot for Jaguares, but they would need to pay a big fee to enter the PRO16, that might not want them or another expansion (16 tastes the right size);

- Italy already owns 2 franchises and doesn't pay fees, they are now stakeowners of PRO16;

- Innocenti already said he wants to sell Zebre to a private part;

So, maybe, Zebre could become the Jaguares (saving UAR's brand, as an Italian-Argentine joint venture, with UAR and FIR sharing ownership) and the deal would include a minimum number of Italians in Jaguares's squad, making them appealing to an Italian audience (as they would be based in Italy and FIR would have a % of its ownership).

That would be a PRO16 Italian side that is properly competitive, while Benetton could also receive some Argentines. Let's say, 45 Italian and 35 Argentine players split between Jaguares and Benetton. Probably, both teams would be stronger than the current Benetton and Zebre.

With this, Innocenti could focus on making the Italian Top 10 stronger (IMO, it should be Top 8...), as promised, making it a better environment for young talent, while some key Azzurri players could try their careers in the French Top 14 and English Premiership as well.

Honestly, it would be a win-win situation for everybody. I'd make that deal.


This is a pretty good idea, and it would be good for all sides (including PRO16 overall, since it would gain a new market in South America), but that means UAR would have to give up some of the control over the Jaguares AND save some spots for Italian players (including some argentine-born), so I don't see how to convince UAR, but it's probably one of the best solutions to the lack of a good competition for the Jaguares and the future of the second Italian franchise

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby Raven » Thu, 01 Apr 2021, 16:47

I know you said "Crazy thought for fun", but it's crazy indeed. They may have a certain grade of success on the pitch, but I don't see the unions working together at all!

Argentina should focus on SLAR and trying to work something out with South Africa.

Italy on the other hand needs to take a deeper look at their coaching staff and selection. I like them trying to attack more than before, but some players cannot cope with the pace. They also lacked a few important players and the fact that most of their squad plays for the local franchises also doesn't help. I find it strange that with the level of some of their players they cannot get contracts to play in better leagues / teams.

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby victorsra » Thu, 01 Apr 2021, 17:27

And that is the point. I always said Argentina should fully focus on SLAR. But they aren't. And there is this noise about trying a Pro16 spot that, let's be honest, is utopic. Nothing suggests Pro16 would expand again soon and it is pretty clear that base a team in Spain paying a huge fee is a no deal (or a realy bad deal). So, I honestly see such partnership with Italy the only realistic way to find a decent deal for the Jaguares. But it won't happen, so just a crazy thought for fun.

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby carbonero » Thu, 01 Apr 2021, 21:06

A joint venture with Italy would be a commercial failure. Argentina cannot partially fund the squad without any financial return.

Spain is different because you don’t depend solely on the local crowd. A team in Madrid, Barcelona, Mallorca, Málaga or Alicante could garner support from the thousands of Argentines living in those regions (a number that is growing as we speak). There could be a reasonable return on investment. If Pro16 doesn’t want to expand, you can always replace Zebre. If they want to charge a fee, there is a broadcaster willing to pay. It is still fanciful but ten times more realistic that working with Italy.

Sorry for the off-topic. Let’s hope Petrarca comes through

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby Batti » Fri, 02 Apr 2021, 15:23

Does anyone know how much money the Benetton Treviso gets from the italian federation ?

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Re: The future of Italian Rugby

Postby victorsra » Fri, 02 Apr 2021, 15:46

carbonero wrote:A joint venture with Italy would be a commercial failure. Argentina cannot partially fund the squad without any financial return.

Spain is different because you don’t depend solely on the local crowd. A team in Madrid, Barcelona, Mallorca, Málaga or Alicante could garner support from the thousands of Argentines living in those regions (a number that is growing as we speak). There could be a reasonable return on investment. If Pro16 doesn’t want to expand, you can always replace Zebre. If they want to charge a fee, there is a broadcaster willing to pay. It is still fanciful but ten times more realistic that working with Italy.

Sorry for the off-topic. Let’s hope Petrarca comes through


You are missing the most important point. Pro14's fee for an Argentine team in Spain would cost around 12 million euros (Pichot said between 6 and 12 million in an interview and that was before CVC takeover).

Obviously in Spain would be a huge fail, because you start with a big fee.

Italy doesn't pay fees and if it is also an Italian team there would mean less costs (sharing with Fir) and it would be for the Italian public an Italian team, specialy with Italian players involved. Nothing different than Zebre. Argentine public would be irrelevant in this equation. This only needs to pay itself.
Last edited by victorsra on Fri, 02 Apr 2021, 15:54, edited 3 times in total.

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