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Rugby Europe governance/politics

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Rugby Europe governance/politics

Postby armchair_expert » Wed, 16 Mar 2016, 21:40

I found this:

http://gloucestershirerfu.co.uk/FCKfile ... _Notes.pdf

some interesting notes there from a 'developing rugby nations' perspective:

16.
ii. a.
Following a review, Rugby Europe is making changes to its governance. The key changes are
the setting up of a nominations committee and delegating to the Six Nations, Pro12, EPCR and
their composite Unions full autonomy and control over cross border matches and tournaments
within their jurisdiction. As Rugby Europe is based in France, the changes now need to be
submitted to the French government for approval. The changes are scheduled to be
implemented in December 2016.


iii.e.
Consideration is being given to Georgia and Romania competing in the U20s tournament.
Last edited by armchair_expert on Thu, 08 Oct 2020, 13:07, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: notes from the RFU Council meeting on 26 February 16

Postby Amargo » Wed, 16 Mar 2016, 21:51

Also
16
iv b. Concern has been expressed at the number and severity of some of the disciplinary issues
from the pool stages and discussions continue with Rugby Europe over the make-up of the
qualifying tournament

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Re: notes from the RFU Council meeting on 26 February 16

Postby sk 88 » Wed, 16 Mar 2016, 22:05

Council noted that the questions on whether Under 16s should be permitted to play up into Under 18s rugby and whether 17 year olds should play adult rugby are still being discussed and that further changes to Regulation 15 may need to be brought to Council at the April or June meeting


Is this new? I played U-18s for my school when I was an U-15 (i.e. year 10), though that was at least 12 years ago now.

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Re: notes from the RFU Council meeting on 26 February 16

Postby sk 88 » Wed, 16 Mar 2016, 22:21

London Irish’s potential ground move is being monitored.


That's very interesting little snipet too. I wonder if it is back in London and if it is dependent on staying up.

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Re: notes from the RFU Council meeting on 26 February 16

Postby Hansgrohe » Wed, 16 Mar 2016, 22:32

armchair_expert wrote:16.
ii. a.
Following a review, Rugby Europe is making changes to its governance. The key changes are
the setting up of a nominations committee and delegating to the Six Nations, Pro12, EPCR and
their composite Unions full autonomy and control over cross border matches and tournaments
within their jurisdiction.
As Rugby Europe is based in France, the changes now need to be
submitted to the French government for approval. The changes are scheduled to be
implemented in December 2016.



If I read this correctly, the 6N basically acts like some kind of independent association separate from Rugby Europe? That sounds very separatist...

armchair_expert wrote:iii.e.
Consideration is being given to Georgia and Romania competing in the U20s tournament.


This is good news though. The youths of Georgia and Romania will be exposed to T1 rugby early, and there will be a contrast in style. I hope this is one step in the right direction.

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Re: notes from the RFU Council meeting on 26 February 16

Postby ruckovercdn » Thu, 17 Mar 2016, 00:44

Yeah the six nations has nothing to do with Rugby Europe, it's operated by the member nations. Hence why no one there will support relegation or promotion.

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Re: notes from the RFU Council meeting on 26 February 16

Postby Hansgrohe » Thu, 17 Mar 2016, 01:38

I knew that - I was referencing the new law

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Re: notes from the RFU Council meeting on 26 February 16

Postby YamahaKiwi » Thu, 17 Mar 2016, 09:18

That's interesting. So is this the home unions making a move to block Rugby Europe becoming like UEFA and holding overarching control of all European rugby? Also I thought RE was now based in Switzerland.

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Re: notes from the RFU Council meeting on 26 February 16

Postby thatrugbyguy » Thu, 17 Mar 2016, 10:24

I wonder what World Rugby's position would be on that. Do international unions need to be affiliated with a regional governing body?

olivier

Re: notes from the RFU Council meeting on 26 February 16

Postby olivier » Thu, 17 Mar 2016, 11:30

I don't catch the change in governance. Unions don't already have full autonomy in cross border competion ?
And what is a nomination committee ?

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Re: notes from the RFU Council meeting on 26 February 16

Postby jservuk » Thu, 17 Mar 2016, 21:07

Why does it have to be approved by the French government? Do they run Rugby in France/Europe?

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Re: notes from the RFU Council meeting on 26 February 16

Postby ormond lad » Thu, 17 Mar 2016, 21:22

sk 88 wrote:
Council noted that the questions on whether Under 16s should be permitted to play up into Under 18s rugby and whether 17 year olds should play adult rugby are still being discussed and that further changes to Regulation 15 may need to be brought to Council at the April or June meeting


Is this new? I played U-18s for my school when I was an U-15 (i.e. year 10), though that was at least 12 years ago now.
Its been the case in Ireland quite a while that you cant play Adult rugby until 18 years of age bar a small few exceptions and in general in a lot of places playing up grades isn't allowed. Like you cant play under 18 rugby until you turn 16 and the same with playing under 16 you cannot play it until you are at least 14.

jservuk wrote:Why does it have to be approved by the French government? Do they run Rugby in France/Europe?
French government has significant control over sport in France and has had this power since 1960s and the power comes on back of poor Olympic performances then and French government decided to take greater control over sport

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Re: notes from the RFU Council meeting on 26 February 16

Postby CM » Fri, 18 Mar 2016, 05:24

The charitable way to think about this is, that Rugby Europe can only delegate authority to someone, if they actually have authority over that area. This could mean, that the Six nations accept Rugby Europes authority in this cas, but only if it is delegated to them immediately.

Which sounds like politics and babysteps. But it is only a way to interpret this, I could be off the mark.

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Re: notes from the RFU Council meeting on 26 February 16

Postby thatrugbyguy » Fri, 18 Mar 2016, 07:57

I don't know how to interpret it to be honest.

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Re: Rugby Europe governance/politics

Postby armchair_expert » Thu, 08 Oct 2020, 13:37

so merely 4 years later I recalled this subject

2009 FIRA-AER by-laws: https://web.archive.org/web/20130727165 ... eur_EN.PDF
1.3 Object and purposes
<...>
FIRA-AER recognizing that the sporting and commercial structures put in place by FFR (French Rugby Federation), FIR (Italian Rugby Federation), IRFU (Irish Rugby Football Union), RFU (Rugby Football Union), SRU (Scottish Rugby Union) and WRU (Welsh Rugby Union) exists and commits to continue the relations established between these parties.
<...>

2016 Rugby Europe by-laws: https://www.rugbyeurope.eu/sites/defaul ... 1.2016.pdf
1.3 Object and Purposes
<...>
1.3.2 RUGBY EUROPE recognizes the existence of the sporting, commercial and
professional structures put in place by FFR (French Rugby Federation), FIR (Italian Rugby
Federation), IRFU (Irish Rugby Football Union), RFU (Rugby Football Union), SRU (Scottish
Rugby Union) and WRU (Welsh Rugby Union), generally known as the “Six Nations”.
RUGBY EUROPE recognizes the right of these Unions, whether individually or collectively, to
operate and commercialize competitions, tournaments and other matches between their
representatives’ national or Club teams.
Consequently, RUGBY EUROPE shall have no responsibility or jurisdiction over the
competitions, tournaments or matches organized by these bodies.
1.3.3 RUGBY EUROPE will preserve maintain respect and develop its relations with these
structures in a spirit of cooperation.

<...>

changes highlighted in bold

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Re: Rugby Europe governance/politics

Postby armchair_expert » Thu, 08 Oct 2020, 13:43

also I think that I do not understand this paragraph:
5.6 Voting and Number of Votes
<...>
5.6.2 One extra vote is then allocated to each Member per block of 10 Clubs up to a
maximum of 50 Clubs, then one extra vote per block of 100 Clubs and above.
<...>

so, for example,
one Member has 99 registered clubs - so it shall receive 5 extra votes (5 blocks of 10 Clubs, and above 50 does not count);
and some other Member has 11099 registered clubs - so it shall receive 115 extra votes (5 blocks of 10 clubs + 110 blocks of 100 clubs) -
is that correct?

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Re: Rugby Europe governance/politics

Postby Canalina » Fri, 23 Oct 2020, 21:37

From https://myrugby.ge/slaidi/3400-rusi-chi ... entad.html

Russian rugby player for president of Europe?
The Russian Rugby Federation officially announced yesterday that they will nominate their own candidate in the "Rugby Europe" presidential election.

Igor Artemiev, Chairman of the Supreme Council of the Russian Rugby Federation, has nominated Kirill Yashenkov, Deputy Chairman of the Supreme Rugby Council, as his candidate for the presidency of Rugby Europe.

The current president of Rugby Europe is Romanian Octavian Morariu, who has been widely criticized and accused of corruption in the World Rugby presidential election - several federations, notably Portugal and Germany, have said they do not want rugby Europe to vote for them. Beaumont. It is noteworthy that Georgia and Romania each gave a separate vote to Augustin Pizzo, and it is natural that they would have the same desire under the auspices of "Rugby Europe", although the organization said in a statement that support for Beaumont was decided unanimously, which later turned out not to be so.

Morario will continue to fight for the presidency of "Rugby Europe" and his opponent will be Yashenkov. It is unknown at this time what he will do after leaving the post. The Rugby Europe presidential election is scheduled for December 4, but due to a pandemic, the election may be postponed until March 2021.

It seems that the Russians are dissatisfied with the management of "Rugby Europe", which Yashenkov said in an interview a couple of days ago. He is unhappy that the last round matches of the European Rugby Championship have been postponed once again.

"The postponement of the last round of the Rugby European Championship has made it clear that Rugby Europe cannot make decisions and organize tournaments at the appropriate level. Therefore, they are responsible for these actions. Given how well the Euro Cup final was conducted and how the best European teams prepare With the end of the 6 nations and the fall of the Nations Cup, it is clear to everyone that the end of the European Rugby Championship can also be completed peacefully and successfully.

This decision is absurd and its result will pose a problem for the next season championship, which is to be held in February-March 2021, and this will be the qualifying stage for the 2023 World Cup. If it so happened that we had to finish the old tournament and start a new one right away, it would create problems for us. The problem is that the fate of the Netherlands, who have been declared the winners of the European Rugby Alaf, is also unclear, but no one knows what will happen to this team and whether it will play a rematch, it all creates confusion.

I would also like to say that it is generally unclear who makes these decisions, because all rugby Europe statements are completed without a signature, they are not signed by either the president of the organization or the executive secretary. Therefore, we do not know who is responsible for postponing the matches. "We need to know who makes these decisions and who is responsible for them," Yashenkov said.

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Re: Rugby Europe governance/politics

Postby Canalina » Fri, 23 Oct 2020, 21:41

Something wrong there must be: or Rugby Europe decided to cancel the whole autumnal program without consulting the national federations involved, or the russian federation is lying while declaring that Rugby Europe didn't consult them

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Re: Rugby Europe governance/politics

Postby armchair_expert » Fri, 23 Oct 2020, 23:13

armchair_expert wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTEhrxEHBQs
"...it's important to raise the level of REIC; REC has reached [somewhat] high level and doesn't move further, so the first step is to introduce TMO in REC since March, next step is to raise the level of competition in divisions below REC - everything is neglected in these divisions and RE does not play any role in their fate..."
"...we (Russia) plan to keep hosting rights to all tournaments hosted on our territory: U18s, beach, snow..."
"...this work (meetings with RE unions, especially 6Ns) is important regardless of [my RE presidential bid], because RWC27 hosting race is coming; while meeting with 6N and other important unions, all of whom are part of WR Council, I will have an opportunity to promote the idea of RWC in Russia ... to persuade representatives of these big nations..."

yet another video from the same event: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJ_q1bC_40g
"...the main thing I want to do is to change the role of this organization in conducting competitions under its umbrella, because right now many 15-a-side and 7-a-side competitions are run de-facto by host countries - so the strategy of tournament-hosting is very wrong. I'd want to change this; I think that if a tournament is run under RE umbrella, then RE must play as-important-as-possible role in organization and conducting these tournaments. Currently all successful tournaments - matches in Russia, Georgia, maybe in Spain, Romania, or 7s tournaments - all this success [in hosting tournaments] is thanks to Unions, countries and its governments who put money into it and reach big successes. Unfortunately, RE plays no active role [in hosting tournaments], and I think that this is a wrong approach and a wrong strategy. My opinion is shared by many Unions, who do not feel any kind of support in terms of organization and conducting of tournaments..."
"...also an important task is to start a club tournament under RE umbrella. You all know that I was the initiator of creating Continental Club Rugby League ... so the presidential post will allow me to fully implement this project. Currently I am fully confident that we will be able to organize and conduct this cup tournament ... we will be able to create it either under RE umbrella only or in cooperation with EPCR. ... If we join forces with EPCR we will be able to invite Italian clubs [to this tournament], which would be important for the level of this tournament, for raising commercial attractiveness and raising the level in general. So I hope that this future club competition will have not only best clubs from Russia, Georgia, Romania and Spain, but also from Italy..."
"...everyone knows that we had a difficult dialogue [with Morariu] about RE support for my club tournament, but this does not mean anything, we have good [personal] relationships..."

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Re: Rugby Europe governance/politics

Postby Armchair Fan » Sat, 24 Oct 2020, 00:12

Canalina wrote:Something wrong there must be: or Rugby Europe decided to cancel the whole autumnal program without consulting the national federations involved, or the russian federation is lying while declaring that Rugby Europe didn't consult them

Even if they unilaterally decided this (which I doubt it was the case), it was the right decision. International organisations are there to take big decisions when it matters, and this is the time to do so. There have been COVID positives in at least four teams involved in Rugby Europe competitions (Poland, Spain, Romania, Russia) this Autumn and there are other countries with very strict restrictions in place who make rugby impossible to play (Belgium). Plus once Georgia has been given the chance to play Tier 1 sides it would be utterly stupid to expose them to teams who have had positive cases (Russia v Romania had to take place this weekend, then Russia v Georgia. A biological bomb in the making).

The comparison with Autumn Nations Cup is pointless. It is a fact that Rugby Europe Championship, Trophy or Women Championship sides haven't got fully professional squads. It is a fact neither Rugby Europe nor each union can afford to professionalise players so they are in a bubble. This won't change in the next few months. Therefore competitions had to be cancelled. What can Rugby Europe do? Design Plan A, Plan B and Plan C for RWC qualifiers. But this Autumn could and had to be skipped.

I understand why Russia uses this for electoral purposes, but it doesn't make any wronger how Rugby Europe acted. Teams, referees and officials couldn't travel in a safe way. And even if they did, quarantines could put at stake their jobs, because many don't make a live out of rugby.

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Re: Rugby Europe governance/politics

Postby Canalina » Sat, 24 Oct 2020, 06:33

It's true that Rugby Europe has all the rights to take a similar decision but I think it would have been fair and wise to consult all the federations, not only as good diplomatic move but also because to take a decision like that you need data and no one as the national federations may give to the confederation useful data about the rugby situation.
I agree that the cancellation of the whole autumnal program seems the best move, but maybe there was some margin of action. There's still a relegation/promotion matter in standby and now they will need to play at least three games in two weekends in january (Geo-Rus, Rom-Bel, bottom placed-Ned) if they want to start the REC 2021 as planned

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