Tier 2 & 3 Rugby Forum

Romanian Rugby

Posts: 1433
Joined: Thu, 12 Dec 2019, 21:26
National Flag:
EnglandEngland

Re: Romanian Rugby

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Tue, 22 Sep 2020, 17:28

Even my idea of adding a team of Ukrainians in Odessa is a terrible one. Odessa to Timisoara is 1000km and crosses 3 borders. I don't think I appreciated how big Romania is.

User avatar
Posts: 2389
Joined: Tue, 15 Apr 2014, 18:36
National Flag:
RomaniaRomania

Re: Romanian Rugby

Postby iul » Tue, 22 Sep 2020, 19:20

If Romanian rugby loses some of the political support then whatever is left after that may well have to play in such a competition. If we-re left with three pro clubs we'd have no choice.

That being said, I very much prefer having our own domestic league. If finance was available I'd like our cluns to engage in a European cup of some sort.

Posts: 138
Joined: Wed, 03 Oct 2018, 20:45
National Flag:
RomaniaRomania

Re: Romanian Rugby

Postby dans » Wed, 23 Sep 2020, 17:42

iul wrote:If Romanian rugby loses some of the political support then whatever is left after that may well have to play in such a competition. If we-re left with three pro clubs we'd have no choice.

That being said, I very much prefer having our own domestic league. If finance was available I'd like our cluns to engage in a European cup of some sort.


True... the scenario that SuperLiga remains with only 4 competitors is not that far fetched!
The changed times and with central/local political priorities placed elsewhere (jobs, education, health) rugby could be further down the pecking order.
It will mean development dialing back and maybe forced to return to an amateur landscape... Not that is bad, but a lot of work done to push for a professional sport would be lost.
If that's the case, the few resources available may be put in centrally controlled entities by the union - maybe a couple of academies or specialist centers at certain locations, a pro franchise like Bucharest Wolves and an amator league with whatever survives.

Posts: 8099
Joined: Thu, 17 Apr 2014, 02:51
Location: São Paulo
National Flag:
BrazilBrazil

Re: Romanian Rugby

Postby victorsra » Wed, 23 Sep 2020, 18:12

So, without public money, Superliga loses half of its clubs?

Posts: 138
Joined: Wed, 03 Oct 2018, 20:45
National Flag:
RomaniaRomania

Re: Romanian Rugby

Postby dans » Wed, 23 Sep 2020, 20:09

victorsra wrote:So, without public money, Superliga loses half of its clubs?


Public money it's a big part of the SuperLiga teams budgets...for all teams is the main financial resource. But this it's not only happening in rugby, it applies to all other sports too, it's 'the facto' method of financing.
For example Baia Mare, the champions, had approved a 400k euro (2 million Lei) funding plan by Local public administration - county level (that was posted by a local paper at the time Jul20). A year ago that sum was a lot smaller (about a quarter of this year agreed sum although was topped up by the town administration) so, they either increased the budget or a shortfall had to be covered during this year lockdown to keep them going due to sponsorship drying down.
If I would say that public money accounts for more than 50% of annual budget, I may not be far from reality...

User avatar
Posts: 2389
Joined: Tue, 15 Apr 2014, 18:36
National Flag:
RomaniaRomania

Re: Romanian Rugby

Postby iul » Wed, 23 Sep 2020, 21:13

victorsra wrote:So, without public money, Superliga loses half of its clubs?

Without public money superliga loses all of its clubs. Or at least the clubs lose their pro status and become amateur, if they'd even afford to do that

Public money is 95% of each club's revenues

Posts: 8099
Joined: Thu, 17 Apr 2014, 02:51
Location: São Paulo
National Flag:
BrazilBrazil

Re: Romanian Rugby

Postby victorsra » Thu, 24 Sep 2020, 04:09

That explains a lot.

Posts: 16
Joined: Fri, 21 Jun 2019, 14:44
National Flag:
WalesWales

Re: Romanian Rugby

Postby andyrobnev » Thu, 24 Sep 2020, 12:53

Has there been any attempt by a Moldovan team to join the Romanian league system at all?

User avatar
Posts: 2389
Joined: Tue, 15 Apr 2014, 18:36
National Flag:
RomaniaRomania

Re: Romanian Rugby

Postby iul » Thu, 24 Sep 2020, 13:36

Only at the "declarative" level, I've never seen any cconcrete plans to do it.

Posts: 460
Joined: Sat, 31 May 2014, 21:12
National Flag:
FranceFrance

Re: Romanian Rugby

Postby vino_93 » Thu, 24 Sep 2020, 14:11

What are the attendances of clubs there ?

And could you introduce us the stadiums (maybe with pictures) please ? :D

User avatar
Posts: 2389
Joined: Tue, 15 Apr 2014, 18:36
National Flag:
RomaniaRomania

Re: Romanian Rugby

Postby iul » Thu, 24 Sep 2020, 15:08

vino_93 wrote:What are the attendances of clubs there ?

And could you introduce us the stadiums (maybe with pictures) please ? :D

A few hundred people with free tickets.

Steaua stadium: supposedly holds 2k
Image

Dinamo
Image

Baia Mare
Image

...the opposite stand
Image

Posts: 460
Joined: Sat, 31 May 2014, 21:12
National Flag:
FranceFrance

Re: Romanian Rugby

Postby vino_93 » Thu, 24 Sep 2020, 15:10

jeez ... terrible. Is there any kind of investments there ? I see many new football stadiums, many new arenas being build right now in Romania. Nothing for rugby (except Arcul de Triumf) ?

Posts: 8099
Joined: Thu, 17 Apr 2014, 02:51
Location: São Paulo
National Flag:
BrazilBrazil

Re: Romanian Rugby

Postby victorsra » Thu, 24 Sep 2020, 15:23

It seems a waste of money while your junior rugby isn't performing...

Posts: 138
Joined: Wed, 03 Oct 2018, 20:45
National Flag:
RomaniaRomania

Re: Romanian Rugby

Postby dans » Thu, 24 Sep 2020, 19:50

vino_93 wrote:jeez ... terrible. Is there any kind of investments there ? I see many new football stadiums, many new arenas being build right now in Romania. Nothing for rugby (except Arcul de Triumf) ?


All the investments are from public money, meaning infrastructure will be shared between sports.
SuperLiga clubs in Romania cannot afford 10 million euro infrastructure investments and they will never get loans from banks in the absence of real assests...
Their stadiums have remained in their administrations from old times, when they were running as amator community clubs. These small clubs, associated with small state enterprises, were the grass roots development of the Romanian rugby in the past.
For any new second division (DNS) clubs to reach SupeLiga, they'll need probably half million euro to run a season...they are not going to get it in these conditions.

There is a national infrastructure investment agency who builds stadiums like Arcul de Triumf, Steaua, Dinamo, Rapid...

Steaua stadion, which is nearly finished, has been scoped for both the footbal and rugby clubs...As the Army club, Steaua is the richest club in the land but it's budget stretches to many sports. Dinamo as a club has probably a quarter of Steaua's budget...their stadium will probably be finished in a couple of years and expect to be available for both footbal and rugby...
I read that Timisoara have a project running for a new stadium and they already submitted the current site to the Ntaional agency for feasability and starting the project...Again the plan is to be used by both the football and the rugby teams. I assume the current rugby pitch will be kept for training.
There is a simillar project in Constanta with a separate 8k capacity rugby stadium in addition to a footbal arena and an indoor complex
Baia Mare have their own little stadium (Arena Zimbrilor ~2k) which probably could be re-vamped at much lower cost...here it is a youtube video (2019) of Baia Mare stadium: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNK2qlmXBAE
Last edited by dans on Thu, 24 Sep 2020, 19:58, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Posts: 2389
Joined: Tue, 15 Apr 2014, 18:36
National Flag:
RomaniaRomania

Re: Romanian Rugby

Postby iul » Thu, 24 Sep 2020, 19:51

There are minor investments but megalomaniac projects for stadiums with 30k seats for football teams that average 2-3k fans are much more popular.

Also, when you hear about plans to build stadiums and other infrastructure keep in mind it's election season now so....

Posts: 138
Joined: Wed, 03 Oct 2018, 20:45
National Flag:
RomaniaRomania

Re: Romanian Rugby

Postby dans » Thu, 24 Sep 2020, 20:06

iul wrote:There are minor investments but megalomaniac projects for stadiums with 30k seats for football teams that average 2-3k fans are much more popular.

Also, when you hear about plans to build stadiums and other infrastructure keep in mind it's election season now so....


;) yeap...seismic changes to come in the world of rugby...and not only in Romania!...at least we are used to have no spectators!!!...

Posts: 460
Joined: Sat, 31 May 2014, 21:12
National Flag:
FranceFrance

Re: Romanian Rugby

Postby vino_93 » Fri, 25 Sep 2020, 07:25

dans wrote:
vino_93 wrote:jeez ... terrible. Is there any kind of investments there ? I see many new football stadiums, many new arenas being build right now in Romania. Nothing for rugby (except Arcul de Triumf) ?


All the investments are from public money, meaning infrastructure will be shared between sports.
SuperLiga clubs in Romania cannot afford 10 million euro infrastructure investments and they will never get loans from banks in the absence of real assests...
Their stadiums have remained in their administrations from old times, when they were running as amator community clubs. These small clubs, associated with small state enterprises, were the grass roots development of the Romanian rugby in the past.
For any new second division (DNS) clubs to reach SupeLiga, they'll need probably half million euro to run a season...they are not going to get it in these conditions.

There is a national infrastructure investment agency who builds stadiums like Arcul de Triumf, Steaua, Dinamo, Rapid...

Steaua stadion, which is nearly finished, has been scoped for both the footbal and rugby clubs...As the Army club, Steaua is the richest club in the land but it's budget stretches to many sports. Dinamo as a club has probably a quarter of Steaua's budget...their stadium will probably be finished in a couple of years and expect to be available for both footbal and rugby...
I read that Timisoara have a project running for a new stadium and they already submitted the current site to the Ntaional agency for feasability and starting the project...Again the plan is to be used by both the football and the rugby teams. I assume the current rugby pitch will be kept for training.
There is a simillar project in Constanta with a separate 8k capacity rugby stadium in addition to a footbal arena and an indoor complex
Baia Mare have their own little stadium (Arena Zimbrilor ~2k) which probably could be re-vamped at much lower cost...here it is a youtube video (2019) of Baia Mare stadium: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNK2qlmXBAE

Thank for your answer. Good to know the new stadiums could be used for rugby too, even if I highly doubt it will happen ... Nice project in Constanta, it looks more in adequacy with what rugby needs.
Arena Zimbrilor looks quite oldish ... but that could be worse. Quite amazing finally you have pro rugby with so poor installations & public... don't know how long it will last ?

User avatar
Posts: 2389
Joined: Tue, 15 Apr 2014, 18:36
National Flag:
RomaniaRomania

Re: Romanian Rugby

Postby iul » Fri, 25 Sep 2020, 07:31

It will last as long as the local authoriies will spend some of its public money on pro rugby clubs. That could be 1 month or it could be 1 century.

Posts: 1433
Joined: Thu, 12 Dec 2019, 21:26
National Flag:
EnglandEngland

Re: Romanian Rugby

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Fri, 25 Sep 2020, 07:47

iul wrote:It will last as long as the local authoriies will spend some of its public money on pro rugby clubs. That could be 1 month or it could be 1 century.


You're down to 6 teams (3 good ones). If you lose any more you don't really have a league and would be better off moving to one pro team playing in the Pro 14 or Russian Premier League.

Posts: 138
Joined: Wed, 03 Oct 2018, 20:45
National Flag:
RomaniaRomania

Re: Romanian Rugby

Postby dans » Fri, 25 Sep 2020, 11:59

Chester-Donnelly wrote:
iul wrote:It will last as long as the local authoriies will spend some of its public money on pro rugby clubs. That could be 1 month or it could be 1 century.


You're down to 6 teams (3 good ones). If you lose any more you don't really have a league and would be better off moving to one pro team playing in the Pro 14 or Russian Premier League.


Not a fan...i would rather see a competitive amator First league, second division and a junior championship with 'grass roots' taken care off.
A romanian pro team in Pro14 (right!:)) or any other league is a luxury we don't have...it probably cost a couple million euros, if not more, to run such a team for a regular season; maybe works if only participating in the European Cup ... But hey, if there is a 'sugar daddy' who has the money to have some fun, i'm all for it...:)...no public money will go for such project.

Posts: 2802
Joined: Thu, 17 Apr 2014, 09:18
Location: Bucharest
National Flag:
RomaniaRomania

Re: Romanian Rugby

Postby amz » Sat, 26 Sep 2020, 08:24

Chester-Donnelly wrote:
You're down to 6 teams (3 good ones). If you lose any more you don't really have a league and would be better off moving to one pro team playing in the Pro 14 or Russian Premier League.


I don't know on what world you're living but going from Bucharest/Timisoara/Baia Mare to Moscow or Siberia is not simple, not economically justified. Also, in actual political context, to move a team there as Argies did with Jaguares in SA is simply insane.

Posts: 1433
Joined: Thu, 12 Dec 2019, 21:26
National Flag:
EnglandEngland

Re: Romanian Rugby

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Sat, 26 Sep 2020, 08:47

amz wrote:
Chester-Donnelly wrote:
You're down to 6 teams (3 good ones). If you lose any more you don't really have a league and would be better off moving to one pro team playing in the Pro 14 or Russian Premier League.


I don't know on what world you're living but going from Bucharest/Timisoara/Baia Mare to Moscow or Siberia is not simple, not economically justified. Also, in actual political context, to move a team there as Argies did with Jaguares in SA is simply insane.


Of course the ideal situation is a league of 6 competitive professional teams in Romania. Same as with South America, they need to focus on their SLAR. Intercontinental leagues are not a good idea.

Posts: 94
Joined: Sun, 11 Mar 2018, 17:39
National Flag:
IrelandIreland

Re: Romanian Rugby

Postby Grayday88 » Sat, 26 Sep 2020, 10:30

Chester-Donnelly wrote:
amz wrote:
Chester-Donnelly wrote:
You're down to 6 teams (3 good ones). If you lose any more you don't really have a league and would be better off moving to one pro team playing in the Pro 14 or Russian Premier League.


I don't know on what world you're living but going from Bucharest/Timisoara/Baia Mare to Moscow or Siberia is not simple, not economically justified. Also, in actual political context, to move a team there as Argies did with Jaguares in SA is simply insane.


Of course the ideal situation is a league of 6 competitive professional teams in Romania. Same as with South America, they need to focus on their SLAR. Intercontinental leagues are not a good idea.

Agreed Covid has finished intercontinental competitions for the foreseeable future (I’ve no idea how an expanded Pro 14 will work)

Posts: 1433
Joined: Thu, 12 Dec 2019, 21:26
National Flag:
EnglandEngland

Re: Romanian Rugby

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Sat, 26 Sep 2020, 10:42

Grayday88 wrote:
Chester-Donnelly wrote:
amz wrote:
Chester-Donnelly wrote:
You're down to 6 teams (3 good ones). If you lose any more you don't really have a league and would be better off moving to one pro team playing in the Pro 14 or Russian Premier League.


I don't know on what world you're living but going from Bucharest/Timisoara/Baia Mare to Moscow or Siberia is not simple, not economically justified. Also, in actual political context, to move a team there as Argies did with Jaguares in SA is simply insane.


Of course the ideal situation is a league of 6 competitive professional teams in Romania. Same as with South America, they need to focus on their SLAR. Intercontinental leagues are not a good idea.

Agreed Covid has finished intercontinental competitions for the foreseeable future (I’ve no idea how an expanded Pro 14 will work)


I think an expanded Pro 14 is a bad idea. The only way it can work is with limited interconference games so intercontinental travel is limited, but even the season is wrong for South Africa. This is a case of money being put before everything else.

Posts: 94
Joined: Sun, 11 Mar 2018, 17:39
National Flag:
IrelandIreland

Re: Romanian Rugby

Postby Grayday88 » Sat, 26 Sep 2020, 16:15

I think an expanded Pro 14 is a bad idea. The only way it can work is with limited interconference games so intercontinental travel is limited, but even the season is wrong for South Africa. This is a case of money being put before everything else.[/quote]

Completely agree money above sense

PreviousNext

Return to Rugby Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Armchair Fan, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], jservuk and 7 guests