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Last countries without rugby

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Re: Last countries without rugby

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Sun, 10 May 2020, 02:37

There really is no consistency between sports in Britain and Ireland as to what countries are represented. It is done on a sport by sport basis.
Ice Hockey: the Great Britain ice hockey team represents the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
Basketball: there are 2 countries (Great Britain, and Ireland).
Cricket: there are 3 countries (England and Wales, Scotland, and Ireland).
Rugby: there are 4 countries (England, Wales, Scotland, and Ireland).
Soccer: there are 5 countries (England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, and Republic of Ireland).
Netball: there are 6 countries (England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, Republic of Ireland, Isle of Man).
Twenty20 cricket: there are 6 countries (England and Wales, Scotland, Ireland, Isle of Man, Jersey, and Guernsey).
I think in theory for a sport there could be as many as 8 national teams representing Britain and Ireland but I don't think there are any real examples of that.

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Re: Last countries without rugby

Postby Canalina » Sun, 10 May 2020, 07:00

In touch rugby there are Eng, Wal, Sco, Ire, Guernsey, Jersey

No Northern Ireland and no Isle of Man, at least they never participated to the big events
https://www.internationaltouch.org/events/euros/2018/

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Re: Last countries without rugby

Postby victorsra » Sun, 10 May 2020, 14:38

In Cricket Scotland and Ireland only became independent from England in the 1990s. Both were under "England " name until 1994 . It was not only Wales. As you pointet, cricket has Isle of Man, Jersey and Guernsey as members of the ICC (but not Wales :!: )

It is easy to understand the British "Home Nations approach" instead of the "Great Britain approach" when we are talking about sports they control the rules. But it is intriguing the non-British sports, specialy a sport like Volleyball that is also Olympic.... maybe they decided to basicaly emulate Football?

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Re: Last countries without rugby

Postby victorsra » Sun, 10 May 2020, 14:56

Lets make a list for the British Isles:

Soccer (British)*: England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland;

Rugby (British)*: England, Scotland, Wales, unified Ireland;

Cricket (British): "England and Wales", Scotland, unified Ireland, Isle of Man, Jersey, Guernsey - but formerly only "England";

Field Hockey (British)*: England, Scotland, Wales, unified Ireland;

Rugby League (British): England, Scotland, Wales, unified Ireland - but formerly only Great Britain;

Basketball (Not British): Great Britain

Volleyball (Not British)*: England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland

Team Handball (Not British): Great Britain

Ice Hockey (Not British): Great Britain

Baseball (Not British): Great Britain

Softball (Not British); Great Britain, Jersey, Guernsey (there is an European Sofball Federation below the World Baseball Softball Confederation)

Lacrosse (Not British): England, Scotland, Wales, Ireland

Water Polo/Aquatics (British): Great Britain

__

*Great Britain in the Olympics

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Re: Last countries without rugby

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Sun, 10 May 2020, 15:16

victorsra wrote:Lets make a list for the British Isles:

Soccer (British)*: England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland;

Rugby (British)*: England, Scotland, Wales, unified Ireland;

Cricket (British): "England and Wales", Scotland, unified Ireland, Isle of Man, Jersey, Guernsey - but formerly only "England";

Field Hockey (British)*: England, Scotland, Wales, unified Ireland;

Rugby League (British): England, Scotland, Wales, unified Ireland - but formerly only Great Britain;

Basketball (Not British): Great Britain

Volleyball (Not British)*: England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland

Team Handball (Not British): Great Britain

Ice Hockey (Not British): Great Britain

Baseball (Not British): Great Britain

Softball (Not British); Great Britain, Jersey, Guernsey (there is an European Sofball Federation below the World Baseball Softball Confederation)

Lacrosse (Not British): England, Scotland, Wales, Ireland

Water Polo/Aquatics (British): Great Britain

__

*Great Britain in the Olympics


The Ice Hockey team is called Great Britain but the country represented is actually United Kingdom, unlike basketball where Great Britain literally means Great Britain, and the Ireland team is an all Ireland team.

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Re: Last countries without rugby

Postby victorsra » Sun, 10 May 2020, 16:15

AFAIK UK is always called Great Britain in sports because Northern Irish athletes have the right to choose between Republic of Ireland and Great Britain. I believe this is valid for basketball the same way it is for Ice Hockey.

Let's remember in the Olympics there isn't an unified Irish team. It is the Republic, but it can have Northern athletes, if they have Republic passports (and any Northern Irish can have it).

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Re: Last countries without rugby

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Sun, 10 May 2020, 16:38

I think I should explain further. The term United Kingdom is not used for sports. Great Britain or Team GB is the name used for any team representing the United Kingdom or Great Britain. In the Olympic Games Team GB represents the United Kingdom, its three crown dependencies and it's Overseas Territories except Bermuda and Cayman Islands. Northern Ireland is represented by both Team GB and Team Ireland.

For some sports such as Ice Hockey the Great Britain team represents the United Kingdom (Great Britain plus Northern Ireland). For other sports such as Basketball the Great Britain team literally represents Great Britain (England, Scotland and Wales). The Ireland basketball team represents the whole of Ireland.

I can't really explain why this is except that Great Britain is the brand in sports.

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Re: Last countries without rugby

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Sun, 10 May 2020, 16:45

victorsra wrote:AFAIK UK is always called Great Britain in sports because Northern Irish athletes have the right to choose between Republic of Ireland and Great Britain. I believe this is valid for basketball the same way it is for Ice Hockey.

Let's remember in the Olympics there isn't an unified Irish team. It is the Republic, but it can have Northern athletes, if they have Republic passports (and any Northern Irish can have it).


I'm afraid it's not as simple as that. The Ireland Olympic Team does represent all of Ireland. They state as such on their website and their symbol is the shamrock rather than the tricolour, same as their rugby team.

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Re: Last countries without rugby

Postby victorsra » Sun, 10 May 2020, 17:02

Yes, I know, but legaly all Northern Irish athletes can defend the Republic. However, team sports are a problem because players don't play alone.... they don't choose to switch allegiances just for the Olympics.

So I need to check again about those sports that Great Britain exist if Ireland is all-Ireland or Republic.

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Re: Last countries without rugby

Postby victorsra » Sun, 10 May 2020, 17:22

Corrected:

Commonwealth Games: England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, Isle of Man, Jersey, Guernsey;

Soccer (British)*: England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland;

Rugby (British)*: England, Scotland, Wales, unified Ireland;

Cricket (British): "England and Wales", Scotland, unified Ireland, Isle of Man, Jersey, Guernsey - but formerly only "England";

Field Hockey (British)*: England, Scotland, Wales, unified Ireland;

Rugby League (British): England, Scotland, Wales, unified Ireland - but formerly only Great Britain;

Basketball (Not British): Great Britain, unified Ireland;

Volleyball (Not British)*: England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland

Team Handball (Not British): Great Britain (including Northern Ireland), Republic of Ireland

Ice Hockey (Not British): Great Britain (including Northern Ireland), Republic of Ireland

Baseball (Not British): Great Britain, Ireland (?)

Softball (Not British); Great Britain, Jersey, Guernsey (there is an European Sofball Federation below the World Baseball Softball Confederation)

Lacrosse (Not British): England, Scotland, Wales, unified Ireland

Water Polo/Aquatics (British): Great Britain, unified Ireland

Netball: England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, Republic of Ireland, Isle of Man;

__

*Great Britain in the Olympics
Last edited by victorsra on Sun, 10 May 2020, 19:36, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Last countries without rugby

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Sun, 10 May 2020, 18:57

victorsra wrote:Corrected:

Commonwealth Games: England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, Republic of Ireland, Isle of Man, Jersey, Guernsey;

Soccer (British)*: England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland;

Rugby (British)*: England, Scotland, Wales, unified Ireland;

Cricket (British): "England and Wales", Scotland, unified Ireland, Isle of Man, Jersey, Guernsey - but formerly only "England";

Field Hockey (British)*: England, Scotland, Wales, unified Ireland;

Rugby League (British): England, Scotland, Wales, unified Ireland - but formerly only Great Britain;

Basketball (Not British): Great Britain, unified Ireland;

Volleyball (Not British)*: England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland

Team Handball (Not British): Great Britain (including Northern Ireland), Republic of Ireland

Ice Hockey (Not British): Great Britain (including Northern Ireland), Republic of Ireland

Baseball (Not British): Great Britain, Ireland (?)

Softball (Not British); Great Britain, Jersey, Guernsey (there is an European Sofball Federation below the World Baseball Softball Confederation)

Lacrosse (Not British): England, Scotland, Wales, unified Ireland

Water Polo/Aquatics (British): Great Britain, unified Ireland

__

*Great Britain in the Olympics


Republic of Ireland does not compete in the Commonwealth Games. The nations you have listed for Commonwealth Games are relevant for Netball which is one of the biggest women's team sports in the British Isles (not a politically correct term but well understood). Jersey and Guernsey do not yet have national teams but they do plan to.

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Re: Last countries without rugby

Postby victorsra » Sun, 10 May 2020, 19:17

Sorry, edited.

Checked https://netball.sport/inside-inf/region ... ope-region The Manx are members, Jersey and Guernsey not yet.
Last edited by victorsra on Sun, 10 May 2020, 19:38, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Last countries without rugby

Postby victorsra » Sun, 10 May 2020, 19:36

victorsra wrote:Corrected:

Commonwealth Games: England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, Isle of Man, Jersey, Guernsey;

Soccer (British)*: England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland;

Rugby (British)*: England, Scotland, Wales, unified Ireland;

Cricket (British): "England and Wales", Scotland, unified Ireland, Isle of Man, Jersey, Guernsey - but formerly only "England";

Field Hockey (British)*: England, Scotland, Wales, unified Ireland;

Rugby League (British): England, Scotland, Wales, unified Ireland - but formerly only Great Britain;

Basketball (Not British): Great Britain, unified Ireland;

Volleyball (Not British)*: England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland

Team Handball (Not British): Great Britain (including Northern Ireland), Republic of Ireland

Ice Hockey (Not British): Great Britain (including Northern Ireland), Republic of Ireland

Baseball (Not British): Great Britain, Ireland (?)

Softball (Not British); Great Britain, Jersey, Guernsey (there is an European Sofball Federation below the World Baseball Softball Confederation)

Lacrosse (Not British): England, Scotland, Wales, unified Ireland

Water Polo/Aquatics (British): Great Britain, unified Ireland

Netball: England, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland, Republic of Ireland, Isle of Man;

__

*Great Britain in the Olympics


Is that right now?

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Re: Last countries without rugby

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Sun, 10 May 2020, 20:29

Yes I believe so. That's a good list. You have included all the main international sports, although I think some of those sports are virtually non-existent in Britain. I have never heard of the Great Britain handball team or baseball team.

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Re: Last countries without rugby

Postby Thomas » Sun, 10 May 2020, 20:58

You also have American Football, represented by GB Lions. which has been around for as long as I remember.

The Great Britain national baseball team has been around since around 1938..

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Re: Last countries without rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Sun, 10 May 2020, 21:16

Chester-Donnelly wrote:Yes I believe so. That's a good list. You have included all the main international sports, although I think some of those sports are virtually non-existent in Britain. I have never heard of the Great Britain handball team or baseball team.

Come on, it is not so long that you hosted Summer Olympics... I even saw handball teams training at Copper Box when I visited Olympic Village during 2015 RWC.

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Re: Last countries without rugby

Postby victorsra » Sun, 10 May 2020, 21:19

GB and USA are among the worst teams in the handball world :lol:

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Re: Last countries without rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Sun, 10 May 2020, 21:23

Neah. I have seen Australia live.

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Re: Last countries without rugby

Postby victorsra » Sun, 10 May 2020, 21:29

English is not Handball's language

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Re: Last countries without rugby

Postby victorsra » Sun, 10 May 2020, 21:34

Look at the clubs playing the English Premier Handball League: https://www.englandhandball.com/league/ ... all-league Very curious that Warrington Wolves (Rugby League club) is involved. In fact, both England and Scotland are the two members of the British Handball federation (the one with IHF membership); And British Handball offices are where? The Halliwell Jones Stadium, Warrington Wolves home.... https://britishhandball.com/

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Re: Last countries without rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Sun, 10 May 2020, 21:38

victorsra wrote:English is not Handball's language

And that's what might kill it. There have been several warnings from IOC given its Eurocentric nature... even though the number of countries that care about it is bigger than for many Olympic sports.

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Re: Last countries without rugby

Postby victorsra » Sun, 10 May 2020, 21:41

Yes, but Handball has following in North Africa, French and Portuguese Africa, Middle East (and forget Qatar's foreign legion, there are plenty Arabs playing), East Asia and South America's southern cone. It is true Europeans dominate the scene, but others do well. Brazil won the Women's World Championship and was a Top 10 in the last Men's World Championship, like Egypt.

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Re: Last countries without rugby

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Sun, 10 May 2020, 21:45

Armchair Fan wrote:
Chester-Donnelly wrote:Yes I believe so. That's a good list. You have included all the main international sports, although I think some of those sports are virtually non-existent in Britain. I have never heard of the Great Britain handball team or baseball team.

Come on, it is not so long that you hosted Summer Olympics... I even saw handball teams training at Copper Box when I visited Olympic Village during 2015 RWC.

Yes I saw that but I thought that was just a made up team for the Olympics. I assumed they had collected a bunch of European handball players with British grandparents.

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Re: Last countries without rugby

Postby victorsra » Sun, 10 May 2020, 21:47

Chester-Donnelly wrote:
Armchair Fan wrote:
Chester-Donnelly wrote:Yes I believe so. That's a good list. You have included all the main international sports, although I think some of those sports are virtually non-existent in Britain. I have never heard of the Great Britain handball team or baseball team.

Come on, it is not so long that you hosted Summer Olympics... I even saw handball teams training at Copper Box when I visited Olympic Village during 2015 RWC.

Yes I saw that but I thought that was just a made up team for the Olympics. I assumed they had collected a bunch of European handball players with British grandparents.


Maybe, but the sport exists there. Small, but that's like rugby in the vast majority of the world....

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Re: Last countries without rugby

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Sun, 10 May 2020, 21:57

I would like to add Australian rules football to your list. Mostly because the teams have good nicknames.
Great Britain (excludes Northern Ireland).
Men's team: The Bulldogs. Women's team: The Swans.
All-Ireland. Men's team: Irish Warriors. Women's team: The Banshees.
Some other nicknames I like are the England women's soccer team; the Lionesses. and the England netball team; the Roses.

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