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South American rugby

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Re: South American rugby

Postby victorsra » Mon, 06 Jul 2020, 23:13

victorsra wrote:Let's do a sort of reality check to see how much North American are devaluing ARC.

A list of all ARC matches that ended with a 20+ points difference.

:oops: = North Americans beating South Americans by 20+
:roll: = South Americans beating South Americans by 20+
8-) = South Americans beating North Americans by 20+
:? North Americans beating North Americans by 20+

Let's remember in the 2016-2019 period we had 60 matches in the ARC (15 each year):
32 South America vs North America matches
24 South America vs South America matches
4 North America vs North America matches

2016
ARG 52-15 CHL :roll:
USA 64-00 CHL :oops:
CAN 52-25 BRA :oops:
ARG 54-21 CAN 8-)
BRA 07-42 ARG :roll:
CHL 13-64 CAN :oops:


2017
ARG 57-12 URU :roll:
CAN 36-15 CHL :oops:
USA 51-03 BRA :oops:
CHL 10-45 ARG :roll:
ARG 79 -07 BRA :roll:
CHL 09-57 USA :oops:
URU 45-14 CHL :roll:


2018
ARG 57-12 CHL :roll:
CAN 45-05 BRA :oops:
ARG 40-15 CAN 8-)
BRA 16-45 USA :oops:
CHL 15-67 URU :roll:
BRA 08 - 28 ARG :roll:
URU 19-61 USA :oops:

2019
ARG 57-03 BRA :roll:
CHL 08-71 USA :oops:
ARG 45-14 USA 8-)
CAN 56-00 CHL :oops:
ARG 35-10 URU :roll:
CHL 10-85 ARG :roll:
URU 42-20 BRA :roll:

Total
:roll: = 13 (Chile suffered 6, Brazil suffered 5, URU suffered 1) in 24 matches (54%)
:oops: =11 (Chile suffered 6, Brazil suffered 4, URU suffered 2) in 32 matches played (34%)
8-) = 3 (all won by ARG) in 32 matches played (9%)
:? = 0 in 4 matches

This means :roll: (South Americans demolishing South Americans) was a more frequent result than :oops: (North Americans demolishing South Americans), whith a realy higher rate (54% vs 34%). I THINK the South American Championship wouldn't be a terrific product.... and looks like ARC problem isn't North Americans' level....


And let's have a look in Spain/Portugal matches against South Americans in the same period.

2016
SPA 54-10 CHL (Nov 2015, it counts as 2015-16 Spanish season)
URU 16-00 SPA
SPA 33-16 URU
POR 21-17 BRA
ARG 44-08 SPA 8-)

2017
SPA 67-28 BRA :oops:
URU 24-14 SPA
BRA 25-21 POR
ARG 37-05 SPA 8-)

2018
none

2019
CHL 18-23 POR
BRA 16-22 SPA
CHL 22-29 SPA
URU 21-41 SPA :oops:
BRA 26-24 POR

Doesn't look to me we'd gain a lot. Cool for a July Nations Cup-like thing. Very important indeed. I always defended Brazil needs closer ties to Portugal in rugby and Spain is obviously a nice partner. But let's not believe to swap tournaments is a logic deal.
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Re: South American rugby

Postby Tobar » Tue, 07 Jul 2020, 01:20

The last part is key - I’d like to see more matches between Portugal and Brazil and Spain and any other Spanish speaking country. But why replace the ARC? Aren’t there plenty of times where countries end up playing Sudamérica XV or some other unofficial team just to get extra playing time? Just add a few extra matches.

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Re: South American rugby

Postby victorsra » Fri, 17 Jul 2020, 07:21

That's it: https://www.allblacks.com/news/new-comp ... pu-report/

Jaguares officialy needs to find another league or shut down.
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Re: South American rugby

Postby Pedro1 » Fri, 17 Jul 2020, 08:14

Whatever they do for their professional setup, the Jaguares Brand should be retired indefinitely. You can't put a team that was just in the SR Final to go play in SLAR with basically academy players. Or even in a Frankenstein competition like the Pro14(n).


When the opportunity to play an Argentinean in an Elite competition arises, then bring back the brand.

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Re: South American rugby

Postby Barzel » Fri, 17 Jul 2020, 08:39

Pedro1 wrote:Whatever they do for their professional setup, the Jaguares Brand should be retired indefinitely. You can't put a team that was just in the SR Final to go play in SLAR with basically academy players. Or even in a Frankenstein competition like the Pro14(n).


When the opportunity to play an Argentinean in an Elite competition arises, then bring back the brand.

100%

Jaguares cannot sustain themselves in a small competition like the SLAR after playing SR. Also how many teams can you stuff theoretically in Pro14? we didn't even mention the South Africans

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Re: South American rugby

Postby theDarky » Fri, 17 Jul 2020, 15:49

Pedro1 wrote:Whatever they do for their professional setup, the Jaguares Brand should be retired indefinitely. You can't put a team that was just in the SR Final to go play in SLAR with basically academy players. Or even in a Frankenstein competition like the Pro14(n).


When the opportunity to play an Argentinean in an Elite competition arises, then bring back the brand.


it's sad to see how all the efforts done by the Argentinian union is considered by the other south hemisphere unions.

They could organise a competition with playoffs in one country on a rotated basis with 6 or 8 teams.

So argentinian/south american clubs could see an opportunity to become seriously pro.

I remembered in 1995 many french clubs were against professionalism on january but on september they were happy to sign contracts.

I wonder if it's the same situation in Argentina.

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Re: South American rugby

Postby victorsra » Fri, 17 Jul 2020, 16:17

Not sure if I agree they should retire the brand. It is realy tricky.
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Re: South American rugby

Postby Canalina » Thu, 23 Jul 2020, 05:05

Uruguay, a sort of relatively safe island in a continent hit by the pandemic, could be the venue of various end-of-the-year South American tournaments: senior, junior, 7s.

La asociación regional trabaja juntos a países miembros para el regreso de los campeonatos regionales cuando la pandemia del COVID-19 lo permita.
Sudamérica Rugby planifica junto a uniones de la región el regreso a la actividad siempre que las condiciones sanitarias y de viaje lo permitan.
Tras una serie de positivas reuniones con representantes de las uniones líderes, se discutieron distintas opciones de torneos, sedes, y categorías.
Se espera que en fecha a determinar se puedan realizar torneos de mayores, juveniles y sevens femeninos.
Teniendo en cuenta que las condiciones sanitarias en Uruguay permiten pensar en una pronta recuperación de la actividad deportiva – ya hay fecha para el reinicio de sus torneos domésticos – SAR está trabajando en la posibilidad que ese país sea, en principio, sede de algunos de sus torneos
.
“La cancelación del Americas Rugby Championship nos abre la posibilidad de retomar nuestros torneos regionales, aprovechando que en Uruguay la situación del COVID-19 permite soñar con torneos internacionales.”

https://peru.rugby/internacional/fechas ... rnacional/

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Re: South American rugby

Postby victorsra » Thu, 23 Jul 2020, 06:08

Yes, but each country is in a different stage of the pandemics, so it is a bit unlikely anything will be played soon. Maybe by November/December.
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Re: South American rugby

Postby Tobar » Fri, 24 Jul 2020, 02:41

victorsra wrote:Yes, but each country is in a different stage of the pandemics, so it is a bit unlikely anything will be played soon. Maybe by November/December.


Colombia has shut down all international passenger flights until end of August. To be honest, I wouldn’t be surprised if this was extended further.

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Re: South American rugby

Postby victorsra » Fri, 24 Jul 2020, 04:06

Yes. Sudamerica Rugby talked about September but that's not realistic.
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Re: South American rugby

Postby Working Class Rugger » Fri, 24 Jul 2020, 05:13

Just want to ask our Sth American members something really quick. There's been reports that Rugby Australia has been in contact with the UAR about the possibility of having the Jaguares or what's left of them alongside the Argentina XV base themselves in Australia and playing in our SR Au competition next year? What are your thoughts on this?

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Re: South American rugby

Postby Thomas » Fri, 24 Jul 2020, 11:39

Working Class Rugger wrote:Just want to ask our Sth American members something really quick. There's been reports that Rugby Australia has been in contact with the UAR about the possibility of having the Jaguares or what's left of them alongside the Argentina XV base themselves in Australia and playing in our SR Au competition next year? What are your thoughts on this?


My first thought who will foot the bill? Based in Australia... let talks logistic and financial realities.

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Re: South American rugby

Postby victorsra » Fri, 24 Jul 2020, 14:28

Thomas wrote:
Working Class Rugger wrote:Just want to ask our Sth American members something really quick. There's been reports that Rugby Australia has been in contact with the UAR about the possibility of having the Jaguares or what's left of them alongside the Argentina XV base themselves in Australia and playing in our SR Au competition next year? What are your thoughts on this?


My first thought who will foot the bill? Based in Australia... let talks logistic and financial realities.

Yep.

It is basicaly like Currie Cup, it would be a team totaly based away probably. There's an interview with a Jaguares director that he said it would be a totaly different project if they base a team away from home.
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Re: South American rugby

Postby Working Class Rugger » Sat, 25 Jul 2020, 03:58

Thomas wrote:
Working Class Rugger wrote:Just want to ask our Sth American members something really quick. There's been reports that Rugby Australia has been in contact with the UAR about the possibility of having the Jaguares or what's left of them alongside the Argentina XV base themselves in Australia and playing in our SR Au competition next year? What are your thoughts on this?


My first thought who will foot the bill? Based in Australia... let talks logistic and financial realities.


I'd imagine it would be us. Or should I say a certain billionaire that owns one of our teams in conjunction with RA.

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Re: South American rugby

Postby ficcp » Mon, 27 Jul 2020, 19:54

According to ARN, UAR has 3 possibilities for Jaguares in 2021 : SLAR, CurrieCup in SAF or a tournament in Australia (¿Superugby AU upgraded?). From the economic point of view, SLAR would be the most convenient choice but not from the sport level. In case UAR opts for SLAR, the quality of Jaguares current squad is much higher than the other teams. There was an idea in this forum to distribute players from Jaguares among the other franchises, which would improve the competitiveness of the League. It would be interesting to know UAR´s position respect this issue.

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Re: South American rugby

Postby ficcp » Mon, 27 Jul 2020, 20:14

Brett Mc Kay, Expert from The Roar considers that the participation of an argentinian team in the AU tournament is nule due to the cost for the UAR and the difference of time zones.

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Re: South American rugby

Postby victorsra » Mon, 27 Jul 2020, 20:55

The Aussies only brought this to the table in order to tell NZ they don't need them, trying to be equals in the Trans-Tasman league negociations.

This means UAR is not considering PRO14.

And this also means Currie Cup + SLAR is basicaly the same option, as SLAR is in the first semestre and Currie Cup in the second. It only becomes two different options if SA transforms the Currie Cup in an anual league, replacing Super Rugby. So UAR depends on what SA wants to do, if they'll move Stormers, Sharks, Lions and Bulls to PRO14 or if they'll create an expanded Currie Cup (bringing Cheetahs and Kings back as well).

The SLAR options can be something good if Laporte moves forward with the Club World Cup.
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Re: South American rugby

Postby Working Class Rugger » Tue, 28 Jul 2020, 00:48

victorsra wrote:The Aussies only brought this to the table in order to tell NZ they don't need them, trying to be equals in the Trans-Tasman league negociations.

This means UAR is not considering PRO14.

And this also means Currie Cup + SLAR is basicaly the same option, as SLAR is in the first semestre and Currie Cup in the second. It only becomes two different options if SA transforms the Currie Cup in an anual league, replacing Super Rugby. So UAR depends on what SA wants to do, if they'll move Stormers, Sharks, Lions and Bulls to PRO14 or if they'll create an expanded Currie Cup (bringing Cheetahs and Kings back as well).

The SLAR options can be something good if Laporte moves forward with the Club World Cup.


Always suspected so. Just wanting to gauge interest. I think SLAR should be seen as the most realistic option moving forward with Argentina working toward having three franchises eventually.

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Re: South American rugby

Postby victorsra » Tue, 28 Jul 2020, 03:15

I agree with you, SLAR is the best solution, but only if TRC is not played in August-September anymore. The Pumas will need to have their top players in Europe (or Japan, Australia South Africa... T1 leagues) and this means they wouldn't be available in August (off-season).
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Re: South American rugby

Postby NaBUru38 » Thu, 30 Jul 2020, 17:19

ficcp wrote:Brett Mc Kay, Expert from The Roar considers that the participation of an argentinian team in the AU tournament is nule due to the cost for the UAR and the difference of time zones.

Time zones are critical. That's why the Jaguares should partner with South Africa.

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Re: South American rugby

Postby victorsra » Fri, 31 Jul 2020, 22:12

https://www.aplenorugby.com.ar/site/ame ... stro-rugby

Piñeyrua saying SLAR can work with MLR.

After becoming clear ARC will stay.

All this dance is very tiring. And many people were passionately defending to break the Americas in two.... many allegations, statements that union doesn't worth and etc... and now things are backing to pre-elections mode.... seriously, it wasn't hard to see all that theater was political....
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Re: South American rugby

Postby Canalina » Sun, 02 Aug 2020, 08:10

In september the Pumas could play a quadrangular in Uruguay with los Teros, Chile and Brazil

www.rosario3.com/deportes/Los-Pumas-jug ... -0016.html

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Re: South American rugby

Postby victorsra » Sun, 02 Aug 2020, 15:31

Not exactly. Sudamerica Rugby wants, but there is nothing confirmed. That's what it is written and what we already know. Anyway, it is very unlikely to see Brazil there.
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Re: South American rugby

Postby Canalina » Sun, 02 Aug 2020, 15:52

In september the Pumas could play a quadrangular in Uruguay with los Teros, Chile and Brazil

It's a conditional mode.
Sorry if I ignored what you already knew.

I have the vague feeling that I'm not exactly popular here and that there's a group of forum members that love to confute my posts, perhaps mostly between the fans of Pichot, el nuestro grande lìder. Not wanting to disturb, I'll start now to post only in the women/other subjects sections, hoping that they will not come also over there with their "sorry not." and "not exactly." posts

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