Should we let Rowan back in?

[4N Profile]

[Beeman] was representative of the swing on the old forum from 'enthusiasts' and those actually involved in Tier 2 and 3 rugby to 'fans'.

You know this how?

[Zhenya_Zima Profile]

It's not something empirical and it's perfectly possible he does transcend both (I very much doubt he did at the time).
The old forum did undergo a transformation (I want to say 2012ish but tbh I don't remember) when it became more (and I don't want to use this but can't think of quicker term) football.
There was a noticeable swing and attacks, insults, and general intolerance (quite often based on nationalism) became the norm.
Anyway, I join the 'hope he comes back' club, and I'd be surprised if he isn't reading this anyway...

[NedRugby Profile]

I'm sure Beeman had a few run-ins with other posters he may have felt weren't very well-informed, but as far as I recall, he only ever 'attacked' Rowan and an Irish poster called dropkick.

I'm fairly sure he attacked everyone Irish. In fact for a while I suspected he and Rowan were the same person because Rowan also had a big downer on Irish rugby administration.

[YamahaKiwi Profile]

He is still very anti-Irish if you read his blogs and tweets. And 4N, he personally abused a heap of other posters. Infact his level of personal abuse was far worse than Rowan's. I don't think he was pro NZ. I don't think he is even a Kiwi. He was very anti-unions and pro clubs. That would be a very, very unusual viewpoint for a Kiwi fan to have.

I had an extensive PM conversation with him trying to get him to take a less abrasive, less personally insulting, and more respecting tone on the forum and he absolutely denied and continued to deny he'd done anything wrong and even ended up replying to me as though he was the victim and tried to blackmail me by saying he'd thought I was a friend but that obviously wasn't the case - sounded like an immature teenager trying to blackmail his parents or teacher than a mature poster on this forum despite me trying my absolute best to talk to him in a diplomatic and respectful manner. I just replied that I did respect him and his many good contributions but I didn't respect personal abuse and that I wouldn't stand for it on the forum. As admin has said, he is not permanently banned and is staying away of his own volition.

Given the attitude he displayed in his PMs to me, I'm very confident he hasn't changed because he never thought he had anything to apologise for in the first place despite repeated transgressions. IMHO I'm quite happy to see a Beeman-less forum as much as a Rowan-less one. And the fact I left him in no doubt that I would not tolerate personal abuse of any fellow forum member is quite possibly why he hasn't come back.

Oh, and about him changing, by the way he personally attacked me in a tweet a while ago for a comment I made on another forum, again it wouldn't seem so. It wasn't warranted as I have never been anything except civil to him, and infact helped him write a couple of articles for his blog while he was still on here. That's gratitude for ya!

[YamahaKiwi Profile]

For the record, he's also why I stopped posting for a long time/didn't register or post here for some while*.

Funny ZZ. I thought that was because of me. I was pretty pissed at you about the Russian visa info for the Moscow 2013RWC7s and I let the old fourm know my 'disapproval" and what i thought of you at the time and I noticed you stopped posting pretty shortly afterwards.

[4N Profile]

I can't get how you can compare Beeman using personal insults (including things like 'moronic') to Rowan's extremist political views or his exhaustive and prolific arguing style that sometimes had the front page of the forum looking like Rowan's latest posts. Like I said, I've been aware of Rowan for 15 years or so and have heard it all before - literally not one of his views on rugby has evolved. The old 'worst Super Rugby team would thump the European champs' is one of his calling cards - people generally laugh at it now in the days of Toulon. Guess he got more mileage out of that one in 2002, probably the last time he watched a full Super Rugby season? Anyway, there was really no point in Rowan being here, and I voiced concerns early on. Others did as well. I can think of one particular user on this forum (not me, if anyone's wondering) who has a sterling discipline record on rugby forums for years and years who ran afoul of Rowan here. Minor points like Rowan's nationality aren't relevant to me - he's someone incapable of debate who has had more bannings than Dylan Hartley.

I'm not here to defend Beeman. I think he's happier away from the forum and perhaps not missed by a few here (personally I think he puts out some of the best T2 analysis around, along with the AmericasRugbyNews guys).

Just here to state as someone who posted on the old IRB forum (Rowan effectively got that closed down) then the FIRA forum for many many years without any kind of banning or caution, I'm glad to see Rowan gone and hope that this forum can continue to grow into what it was originally intended to be - a place where T2 enthusiasts can register freely, not lose their discussions more than 90 days old, and not suffer from sometimes aloof/inconsistent moderation as was the case on FIRA.

Regarding the PM stuff, I think it's best to keep it off the forum. People DM stuff because they don't want it to be here.

[YamahaKiwi Profile]

It seems to me you are defending Beeman. He said a lot worse than moronic. But even then that's still a personal insult and unnecessary in a forum where we're all supposed to respect each other and he clearly didn't. I don't always agree with some posts and I can tell you, as I said to beeman himself, there's someone I'd like to call moronic on this forum but I don't. I'm not saying Rowan is better overall. They were both bad for the forum in different ways. I don't care care that Beeman was and is a pretty intelligent individual, if he can't bring a mature attitude to match and is going to play an arrogant and sometimes nasty clown. If you want to tolerate personal attacks on others that's your business. I don't and I won't.

As far as PMs are concerned, I have kept those to myself until I thought it was appropriate that what I think was relevant information on the topic we are discussing came out. That goes for releasing info about PMs I had with Rowan as well. I want people to be aware I was in personal contact with them and their replies to me are relevant in this discourse.

[Zhenya_Zima Profile]

For the record, he's also why I stopped posting for a long time/didn't register or post here for some while*.

Funny ZZ. I thought that was because of me. I was pretty pissed at you about the Russian visa info for the Moscow 2013RWC7s and I let the old fourm know my 'disapproval" and what i thought of you at the time and I noticed you stopped posting pretty shortly afterwards.

God, no! We have many different opinions, but I don't think either of us has ever (on either fora, or PM) shown any disrespect to each other. Needling maybe, debate sure, the stuff we're talking about here...? Re: the visa, I'm not the Russian govt, Sports Ministry, or Union (although I've been accused of 2/3 in PM!). I gave whatever info I had in good faith (why would I not?) I was close to the process, but I was not involved in it in any way, for the record, if that is an issue still?

If this was another media, I'd like 4N's post in its entirety. Beeman does provide some great T2 analysis online (there is the odd barb, still, yes), and that alone pretty much puts to bed Nedrugby's suspicions that he and Rowan are one and the same.

[4N Profile]

Thanks ZZ and YK agree the forum should be kept free of personal attacks.

[Horsehead Profile]

I think we should have a new poll where we vote on who we think YK wants to call Moronic

[NedRugby Profile]

We could make it like Big Brother. Every month we get to vote one person off the forum
I think it would probably be the one who uses the most smileys

[fullbackace Profile]

Oh THAT's what happened... I wondered why forum suddenly became way more pleasant with more people starting to post actual interesting news.

please keep him away by a country mile.. I almost left the forum because it became a cesspit of demagogy.

And How can you even compare Beeman to Rowan.. yes he has strong opinions but that's because he's passionate about rugby and a bit rough around the edges. his opinions were often insightful, unlike rowans idiocy.

[YamahaKiwi Profile]

Oh THAT's what happened... I wondered why forum suddenly became way more pleasant with more people starting to post actual interesting news.

please keep him away by a country mile.. I almost left the forum because it became a cesspit of demagogy.

And How can you even compare Beeman to Rowan.. yes he has strong opinions but that's because he's passionate about rugby and a bit rough around the edges. his opinions were often insightful, unlike rowans idiocy.

I'm not comparing Beeman to Rowan.As I've said totally different characters. But they both had disruptive influences on this forum. And for one thing I'm passionate about rugby too but I don't go around immaturely and arrogantly abusing other people on the forum. FB, understand this. Being passionate about something doesn't give you licence to abuse others. For what it's worth I noticed that the forum became a much nicer place after beeman left, just as it has improved a great deal after Rowan has been axed. As I said before what's the use of having useful insights if you don't have the maturity to respect other's opinions even if you disagree with them? As ZZ said while he might have pretty good insight into T2 rugby he brought a "football" kind of attitude.

Sadly, far too many threads were ruined when they disolved into name calling and personal attacks, particularly when Irish posters were involved. As I told him myself, I mostly agreed with his point of view but the point I made to him was that even if I completely disagreed with those other posters I never got into casting personal attacks on them. His retort was to say that they were idiots and deserved it which was not the mature answer I was hoping for. Most people understand when they've gone a bit far but not him. So me thinks you downplay beeman's character by describing it as "rough around the edges". My opinion is it was sometimes (and often enough to be disruptive) arrogant and disrespectful. Yes, he posted some good stuff. So it's a shame about the immature and arrogant attitude.

Lastly, the guy knows he's welcome back as long as he improves his behaviour so the ball is firmly in his court. The fact he hasn't come back is an indication he still thinks he did nothing wrong and therefore is not ready to ameliorate said behaviour.

[tryman Profile]

No that's ex-poster Beeman.

Why did Beeman dissapear? is he tryman now?

Haha! Just seeing this now as I never go on this forum.

I can safely say I don't have another account. Not sure if the above comment was meant as a complement, I hope so!

[YamahaKiwi Profile]

I'm not sure tryman if it was a compliment or not mate. But given you haven't repeatedly personally attacked other forum members and consistently made anti-Irish troll-like comments I've never suspected you (or anyone else frankly) of being Beeman in disguise. You're just too well behaved!

[Ser Podrick of Payne Profile]

"Rowan" was not happy with Spain's qualification claiming it was down to dodgy reffing!

Spain were gifted the final by a string of mysterious free-kicks against the Samoans at the end. An island nation heartbroken, a European nation that doesn't care about rugby going to the Olympics.

See comments at http://www.planetrugby.com/news/spain-s ... -olympics/

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