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2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby Canalina » Sat, 06 Mar 2021, 20:15

I really can't understand these polemics. The U20 (men) RWC was cancelled seven months ago, and noboby of us understood why they took the decision with so much anticipation. For the women RWC instead they've fighted until now, postponing and re-postponing the qualifiers in the last twelve months and playing the few games (in Samoa and Spain) they can play. Maybe next year there will be less problem, more spectators and coming also from abroad, the chance to play the qualifiers in better and more fair conditions, maybe (let's hope) there will be no need of quarantene for the athletes. I don't say that the postponement of the Cup to 2022 is the best solution, I haven't all the knowledge to affirm that; but surely it's totally comprehensible. The Olympic Games were postponed by a year, a lot of national championship have been cancelled, the U20 6N was not-concluded in 2020 and cancelled this year, the U20 RWC and RWT have been cancelled both last year and this year... but if they postpone the women RWC it's a case of discrimination. Sometime I suspect that the favorite sport of the rugby fans is feeling outraged: #1 feeling outraged, #2 rugby, #3 the other sports.

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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby johnbirch » Sat, 06 Mar 2021, 22:23

thatrugbyguy wrote:
victorsra wrote:
thatrugbyguy wrote:The fact WR are persisting with this gender neutral nonsense is ridiculous. Not once did their press release say the word 'woman' once.


I think WR is right, but honestly this is an useless discussion because I realy doubt the absense of "women's" in the name has any real negative effect.

Unless you defend the men's RWC should be called "Men's RWC". Then it makes sense. It is pretty obvious the problem is not to call a competition "women's". The problem is to make it "the lesser other". It is "less" if only one has to use gender. No matter how much you try to engeneer an explanation to justify that.

Cricket, Field Hockey, Basketball, Volleyball and Handball, for exemple, calls "men's WC" their men's competitions. That's fair. IMO, it would be easier to just call the men's RWC as "Men's RWC" :lol:


Rugby World Cup will always default to the mens competition, mostly because the women's competition is barely even recognised within the sport itself. You cannot promote women's rugby if you don't mention women. The article is absurd. Not once is the word woman mentioned. WR idea seems to be people will just figure it out. Yeah, great idea, let's take an already small sport and refrain from mentioning women have their own world cup. What better way to attract young girls to rugby than never say that women are present in the first place. Idiots in charge of this sport.
What gets me is the inconsistency. "Rugby World Cup" is gender neutral, but all regional tournaments - and "World Sevens Series" - aren't.

Yet World 7s would make more sense being gender neutral because most tournaments are double-headers now!

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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby thatrugbyguy » Mon, 08 Mar 2021, 05:37

It's because instead WR are trying to fool people. They've got it in their heads the best way to help women's rugby is to: 1) Link the women's tournament directly to the tournament that actually has monetary value and notoriety in an feeble attempt to draw attention and 2) Remove all mention of women in the promotional materials and press releases thinking this will draw more media. The irony? The entire rugby media are still calling it the Women's Rugby World Cup because they know it's confusing. :lol: Literally the only people who aren't calling it a Women's world cup, are the ones who are suppose to be promoting it as a Women's world cup.

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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby Canalina » Mon, 08 Mar 2021, 13:21

A woman coach for Hong Kong too. Still no clues about the Asian qualifying dates, as it was predictable

www.scmp.com/sport/rugby/hk-sevens/arti ... -world-cup

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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby snapper37 » Mon, 08 Mar 2021, 17:22

Canalina wrote:A woman coach for Hong Kong too. Still no clues about the Asian qualifying dates, as it was predictable

http://www.scmp.com/sport/rugby/hk-seve ... -world-cup



Japan also has a female as their womens rugby coach, A Canadian.
https://www.world.rugby/news/407709/les ... ugby-coach

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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby Canalina » Tue, 09 Mar 2021, 18:01

... The decision to postpone this year’s tournament was taken following extensive discussions with New Zealand Rugby, the New Zealand Government and participating unions as a result of the continued impact and insurmountable uncertainties of the COVID-19 pandemic, including:

Uncertainty and risk surrounding safe and reliable travel for more than 600 players, staff and tournament personnel
Uncertainty surrounding the ability to guarantee high-performance training environments for teams going through the 14-day managed isolation and quarantine process on arrival in New Zealand, that would allow them to prepare properly for a Rugby World Cup
Uncertainty of adequate preparation for all teams, with some teams unable to fully assemble as a training squad or play test matches for more than 12 months
Ongoing challenges surrounding the completion of the global qualification process due to international travel restrictions and varying and unpredictable national quarantine requirements
Inability at this stage to guarantee full local and international fan attendance at matches (including player families), providing the deserved stage to supercharge the women’s game globally
In addition, given the existing high-risk threshold, there would have been limited capacity to react to any new risk that may have arisen over the remaining six months until the start of the tournament, which could have resulted in the outright cancellation of the tournament rather than postponement. ...


https://www.world.rugby/news/622703

The bold part was bolded by me and, if true, it should defuse the polemics by the spaniard coach; if really the federations were consulted about the postponement of the final tournament, the postpomenent of the qualifiers can't be a surprise for them.
About the 2 millions sterlins injected in the process, I can't value if they are few or a lot

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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby Armchair Fan » Tue, 09 Mar 2021, 18:35

Well, it talks about RWC postponement, not qualifiers.

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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby Canalina » Tue, 09 Mar 2021, 19:18

If (if) they consult you about the idea to postpone the tournament and they explain the move with the above list of reasons, you can't be surprise if they postpone also the qualifiers. Or at least you can't consider it a scandal

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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby TheStroBro » Wed, 10 Mar 2021, 04:37

The amount of money World Rugby is putting forward for this to fund preparatory test matches in pitiful. Really, 2M pounds? That's nothing!

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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby thatrugbyguy » Wed, 10 Mar 2021, 06:27

It's entirely possible the discussions were only held with the nations that had already qualified, so I wouldn't dismiss the Spanish coach's objections just yet.

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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby Armchair Fan » Thu, 11 Mar 2021, 09:19

Canalina wrote:If (if) they consult you about the idea to postpone the tournament and they explain the move with the above list of reasons, you can't be surprise if they postpone also the qualifiers. Or at least you can't consider it a scandal

Our coach isn't backing off:
"The very same afternoon we were told about RWC postponement to 2022, we were invited to a meeting with Ireland and World Rugby to decide what to do of March 13th game. That meeting never took place. Moreover, we later found out that World Rugby told Ireland that very same March 2nd about the unilateral cancellation of the game".
https://www.elconfidencial.com/deportes ... s_2985867/

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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby Canalina » Thu, 11 Mar 2021, 09:47

Horrible, horrible, horrible article. I thought italian rugby was the champion of the world of "crying rugby" but we are amateurs if compared to Spain. I just report the beginning of the article, but it's all in the same tone

Title: El rugby español, arrinconado (cornered) por World Rugby y Europe Rugby
Subtitle: a las Leonas le han jugado una mala pasada para ayudar a Irlanda
Article: Después de lo ocurrido en Bruselas en la clasificación del pasado Mundial … ahora son las Leonas las que han visto como Irlanda se salía con su plan, con la complicidad de World Rugby.


It makes me vomiting. Yunque and Pichot should form a vocal duo: "Los duos llorones". They would win a lot of Gold Records. Spain was blatantly favored in these qualifiers: they played at home both the games and they met a Russia very weakened by the fact that World Rugby (the evil old club who plot to eliminate the mighty Spanish rugby from the world panorama) organized a 7s pre-olympic tournament in the same weekend of Spain-Russia, so the russian federation more interested in the Olympics decided to shift all their best athlets in the 7s event. Of course the crying spanishes forgot this, because it's not functional to their conspiracy cry. And the format of the cancelled qualifiers now has become "the format that we all together decided", while until two weeks ago they cried because it was an unfair format.
Such a vomit, this is not rugby. From now on I will cheer the Spain's opponents in every game

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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby Armchair Fan » Thu, 11 Mar 2021, 10:01

Well, I know the article was horrible and that's why I only picked the quote for you.

P.S: "El dúo llorón" or "El dúo de llorones" or "Los dos llorones"

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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby Canalina » Thu, 11 Mar 2021, 10:18

Armchair Fan wrote:P.S: "El dúo llorón" or "El dúo de llorones" or "Los dos llorones"

They will be too busy on crying to take care of grammar

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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby TheStroBro » Thu, 11 Mar 2021, 20:12

Generally speaking, in sport, the higher ranked team should get "favored" in qualifiers.

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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby victorsra » Mon, 15 Mar 2021, 16:35

I don't know any sport that favours a team in a WC qualy. Only rugby. Who else?

Some sports have like "final tournaments" with a host country and many participants (to cut costs and travels), but usualy in those tournaments there is more than one spot at stake, to make it more even for the other participants. The idea of one team only playing at home for the only spot at stake is a sickness very particular to rugby and a pretty nasty one.

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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby Canalina » Mon, 15 Mar 2021, 23:20

This was a particular scenario, with the retirement by Germany and then, overall, with the pandemic. I'm sure no one wanted to favor Spain and I'm sure that Spain didn't ask for it, but the result was anway that they have been largely favored in these qualifiers: not only by playing both the games at home but mostly by having matched a sort of "Russia B", because the best russian players were occupied to play (and to dominate) the 7s pre-Olympic event organized right in the day of Spain v Russia.
What I wanted to highlight was the paradox of a Spanish staff acting as victims of injustice when the realty was totally the opposite.
The mental approach is always the same: if a T1 team makes a thing, that's a scandal; if a T2 team makes the same thing, oh, well, that's normal.
Let's imagine if the squad playing both the games at home and matching the most dangerous rival weakened by the fact that World Rugby has organized a simultaneous 7s important event was England: we would have heard the words "mafia", "criminals", "old farts" and so on... Instead the favored team was Spain and not only nobody said anything but I'm pretty sure nobody even noticed it

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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby victorsra » Tue, 16 Mar 2021, 01:13

I think everybody agrees the Spanish claims are hypocritical since they have faced both Russia and Netherlands at home, for exemple. He is only being an opportunist due to T1s bad image. Which doesn't make T1s image better. They are not to be blamed all the time. Just a lot of times, but not all the time.

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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby Leones » Wed, 17 Mar 2021, 11:05

Canalina wrote:This was a particular scenario, with the retirement by Germany and then, overall, with the pandemic. I'm sure no one wanted to favor Spain and I'm sure that Spain didn't ask for it, but the result was anway that they have been largely favored in these qualifiers: not only by playing both the games at home but mostly by having matched a sort of "Russia B", because the best russian players were occupied to play (and to dominate) the 7s pre-Olympic event organized right in the day of Spain v Russia.
What I wanted to highlight was the paradox of a Spanish staff acting as victims of injustice when the realty was totally the opposite.
The mental approach is always the same: if a T1 team makes a thing, that's a scandal; if a T2 team makes the same thing, oh, well, that's normal.
Let's imagine if the squad playing both the games at home and matching the most dangerous rival weakened by the fact that World Rugby has organized a simultaneous 7s important event was England: we would have heard the words "mafia", "criminals", "old farts" and so on... Instead the favored team was Spain and not only nobody said anything but I'm pretty sure nobody even noticed it


According to you, Spanish rugby is the great favored by World Rugby for having played two qualifying matches at home. But what about the 6-nation teams that haven't even had to play that qualifying round against Rugby Europe teams? Scotland, with a worse Ranking than Spain, begins to play a more advanced round than Spain began. Why?

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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby Canalina » Wed, 17 Mar 2021, 12:40

The Six Nations is an ancient tournament which made the history and the popularity of rugby; the six participants show in every World Cup to be complexively the best of Europe, even if Spain is at the same level of three or four of them. To me it’s ok that a closed tournament with these features is considered part of the RWC qualifiers. You have an opposite opinion and it’s totally legit, also because from an ideal point of view you are completely right: in an ideal panorama every nation should have the same base in the RWC qualifiers.
That said, I think the coach of Spain and the journalist of El Confidential can’t say things like “lobby” or “the Ireland plan” or “World Rugby favored Ireland”; they can’t say that because in a pandemic situation with the final RWC tournament postponed by a year it’s really hard to imagine that the postponement of the qualifiers (of all the qualifiers, not just the Spain’s one) was somehow malicious; and they can’t say that because they totally bypassed the fact that Spain was largely favored itself, not just by having two games at home but also and overall by matching a weakened Russian team. If they want to feel outraged they should feel that in front of every unjust situation, not only when the (supposed) injustice is against them

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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby Leones » Wed, 17 Mar 2021, 12:54

Canalina wrote:The Six Nations is an ancient tournament which made the history and the popularity of rugby; the six participants show in every World Cup to be complexively the best of Europe, even if Spain is at the same level of three or four of them. To me it’s ok that a closed tournament with these features is considered part of the RWC qualifiers. You have an opposite opinion and it’s totally legit, also because from an ideal point of view you are completely right: in an ideal panorama every nation should have the same base in the RWC qualifiers.
That said, I think the coach of Spain and the journalist of El Confidential can’t say things like “lobby” or “the Ireland plan” or “World Rugby favored Ireland”; they can’t say that because in a pandemic situation with the final RWC tournament postponed by a year it’s really hard to imagine that the postponement of the qualifiers (of all the qualifiers, not just the Spain’s one) was somehow malicious; and they can’t say that because they totally bypassed the fact that Spain was largely favored itself, not just by having two games at home but also and overall by matching a weakened Russian team. If they want to feel outraged they should feel that in front of every unjust situation, not only when the (supposed) injustice is against them


When a closed and private tournament harms the interests of other nations, it is a "Lobby". There is talk of "the Irish Plan" because their coach repeatedly complained that his players would arrive unprepared and they tried to postpone the game several times before learning about the postponement of the RWC. Spain has reason to complain. Still, I also think that the article is a bit excessive.

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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby johnbirch » Wed, 17 Mar 2021, 21:29

Leones wrote:
Canalina wrote:The Six Nations is an ancient tournament which made the history and the popularity of rugby; the six participants show in every World Cup to be complexively the best of Europe, even if Spain is at the same level of three or four of them. To me it’s ok that a closed tournament with these features is considered part of the RWC qualifiers. You have an opposite opinion and it’s totally legit, also because from an ideal point of view you are completely right: in an ideal panorama every nation should have the same base in the RWC qualifiers.
That said, I think the coach of Spain and the journalist of El Confidential can’t say things like “lobby” or “the Ireland plan” or “World Rugby favored Ireland”; they can’t say that because in a pandemic situation with the final RWC tournament postponed by a year it’s really hard to imagine that the postponement of the qualifiers (of all the qualifiers, not just the Spain’s one) was somehow malicious; and they can’t say that because they totally bypassed the fact that Spain was largely favored itself, not just by having two games at home but also and overall by matching a weakened Russian team. If they want to feel outraged they should feel that in front of every unjust situation, not only when the (supposed) injustice is against them


When a closed and private tournament harms the interests of other nations, it is a "Lobby". There is talk of "the Irish Plan" because their coach repeatedly complained that his players would arrive unprepared and they tried to postpone the game several times before learning about the postponement of the RWC. Spain has reason to complain. Still, I also think that the article is a bit excessive.
Not that ancient. Only goes back to 1996, at most, or 1999 as the "5 Nations". And Spain were there almost from the start.

Oh yes - there is a men's tournament that is quite old. But so what? Why on earth should women's rugby mimick men's rugby's formats? The European Championship, for women. is older.

The 6 Nations Brand is good... for the 6 teams that are in the 6 Nations. But the tournament has without question has been bad for women's XVs in the rest of Europe. In ANY other region ANY nation can aspire to be the continental champions, but not in Europe.

It does not matter how unrealistic that aspitation is. I saw an article this week about women's rugby in Mauritus (a country I'd struggle to find on a map) where the hope of winning an Olympic place is helping expand women's rugby in that country. It is wildly - ludicrusly - unrealistic, but that does not matter. They are on the same path as everyone else. One day they might even share a pitch with South Africa or Kenya.

But that hope barely exists in Europe XVs. Because the 6N has closed the door and taken away the key. Because they have all the money and Council votes. And to hell with the rest of you.

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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby Thomas » Wed, 17 Mar 2021, 22:54

I agree with John on this point. The Olympics concept is a very powerful incentive, the likes of countries in Guatemala have improved and expanded their programmes because of the possibility in the no to distant future they can qualify and participate at the games.

Olympic participation is seen as stepping stone for athletes to a better life and careers (not sports careers is not like Europe or the UK) hence why they have expanded exponentially and eventually get their XV Programme off the ground.

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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby victorsra » Thu, 18 Mar 2021, 19:12

So, can we expect the European qualy, the Asian qualy and the Colombia-Kenya playoff to happen when? Around September/October?

And Final Qualy in November?

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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby Armchair Fan » Sat, 20 Mar 2021, 12:26

Image

Paula Medín's retirement, "not even as a joke"

A common front tries to prevent Alevín, as CRAT international player Paula Medín is known, from retiring. Coaches and teammates ask her to resist, since she was going to call it a day after 2021 RWC, but competition has been postponed to 2022. "Not even as a joke", says her coach Elena Roca. "I'm not going without here", threatens her teammate in national team Mónica Castelo.

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