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Dropgoals

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Dropgoals

Postby Canalina » Sun, 17 Nov 2019, 18:54

I tried to create an all time rank of the italian national team's try scorers; this was possible just going down until 2008, after that year the data on internet seem no more complete. So the list is relative just to the 2008-2019 frame
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... 8f-OXjibc/

But the point of this thread is an other one: searching for the list I was focused on tries, not on kicked points, but at the end of the search I had the feeling to have not read any mention of a drop goal in all those score sheets. It is possible that Italy has never scored or even kicked a drop goal in these 34 years of "life" ("azzurre" debuted in 1985).
But I don't even remember a drop goal by other national teams.
Do you?
Last edited by Canalina on Sun, 21 Feb 2021, 21:43, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Dropgoals in women rugby

Postby Canalina » Sun, 17 Nov 2019, 19:16

I found...
Michela Tondinelli, fly-half, scored a drop goal in Italy-England 6-76 (Six Nations 2008) and one in Ireland-Italy 40-10 (Six Nations 2012)

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Re: Dropgoals in women rugby

Postby sjbret » Mon, 25 Nov 2019, 01:36

Two others :
7/8/2014, Snowsill for Wales Vs South Africa (35-3)
This year, 31/7/2019, Chen Ming for China Vs Kazakhstan (13-8)

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Re: Dropgoals in women rugby

Postby Canalina » Tue, 26 Nov 2019, 09:39

Thanks Sjbret

This is one of the two Tondinelli's drop goals, in 2012. Many match-sheets of the italian test match before 2008 are not available so I don't know if other drop goals have been scored by Italy

https://youtu.be/QqogLGndAas?t=130
Last edited by Canalina on Sun, 21 Feb 2021, 16:26, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Dropgoals in women rugby

Postby thatrugbyguy » Sat, 30 Nov 2019, 04:28

I would assume you don't see it too often in women's rugby for two reasons. One is distance, the best women's kickers in the world can kick the ball probably no more than 40 metres, maybe 45m if they are exceptional and have the wind at their back. The other would simply be pace of which the game is played. Slower movement of the ball means the defence has more time to block any attempt.

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Re: Dropgoals in women rugby

Postby sjbret » Sat, 30 Nov 2019, 11:23

Snowsill's during WRWC 2014 in Marcoussis (around 1' in the highlights).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOGlQ1uFmK4

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Re: Dropgoals in women rugby

Postby Canalina » Sat, 19 Sep 2020, 12:32

1991, a 30/35 meters drop goal by italian Carla Negri during World Cup's England v Italy (minute 2.55). She died in 2010 at the age of 46


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Re: Dropgoals in women rugby

Postby sjbret » Sat, 20 Feb 2021, 16:43

Amalia Argudo (Spain) today Vs Russia (56-7). DG at 6th minute.

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Re: Dropgoals in women rugby

Postby Canalina » Sun, 21 Feb 2021, 15:05

From twitter

"A rare drop goal in a women's test match today by @ferugby's Amelia Argudo. The last was scored by Switzerland's Esther Duss against Belgium over 5 years ago!"

https://twitter.com/Stu_Farmer/status/1 ... 7221155845

But according to Serge over here a dropgoal was scored also in 2019 China v Kaz

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Re: Dropgoals in women rugby

Postby Canalina » Sun, 21 Feb 2021, 16:23

A little mistery: was the Chen Ming's score in the 2019 China v Kazakhstan a dropgoal, as Serge said in the post here above, or a penalty kick, like the scarce reports of the match say?
Let's wait Serge for a possible clarification

The precious results' archive of ScrumQueens has too a report of the game, and says it was a penalty kick. There's also the video of the match still available, but unfortuntaley it starts when the score is already 3-5 and the dropgoal or penalty kick already kicked
https://www.scrumqueens.com/news/china- ... kazakhstan
https://www.facebook.com/asia.rugby/vid ... 246699320/

A little clue: in the second game between China and Kazakhstan Chen Ming attempted and failed a dropgoal, this makes less unlikely the hypothesis that also her kick in the first game was a drop

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Re: Dropgoals in women rugby

Postby johnbirch » Sun, 21 Feb 2021, 17:40

Canalina wrote:A little mistery: was the Chen Ming's score in the 2019 China v Kazakhstan a dropgoal, as Serge said in the post here above, or a penalty kick, like the scarce reports of the match say?
Let's wait Serge for a possible clarification

The precious results' archive of ScrumQueens has too a report of the game, and says it was a penalty kick. There's also the video of the match still available, but unfortuntaley it starts when the score is already 3-5 and the dropgoal or penalty kick already kicked
https://www.scrumqueens.com/news/china- ... kazakhstan
https://www.facebook.com/asia.rugby/vid ... 246699320/

A little clue: in the second game between China and Kazakhstan Chen Ming attempted and failed a dropgoal, this makes less unlikely the hypothesis that also her kick in the first game was a drop
I am pretty sure I saw the game as I wrote the report. I sure the first score must have been a penalty as otherwise I really would have noticed!

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Re: Dropgoals in women rugby

Postby Canalina » Sun, 21 Feb 2021, 19:40

But if the recorded video starts some time after the kick off it's likely that also the live stream started at that point, so you could have missed the kick and just have deduced that it was a pk. If Serge will read these posts he could explain why he considered that China's score as a dropgoal.
Maybe it was an easy penalty kick under the posts and the player decided to kick it dropping the ball, this would catch both the birds in a once...

According to the statistician mentioned three posts above, there are 37 dropgoals in the history of women's test matches

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Re: Dropgoals in women rugby

Postby johnbirch » Sun, 21 Feb 2021, 20:00

Canalina wrote:But if the recorded video starts some time after the kick off it's likely that also the live stream started at that point, so you could have missed the kick and just have deduced that it was a pk. If Serge will read these posts he could explain why he considered that China's score as a dropgoal.
Maybe it was an easy penalty kick under the posts and the player decided to kick it dropping the ball, this would catch both the birds in a once...

According to the statistician mentioned three posts above, there are 37 dropgoals in the history of women's test matches

That could be the case - trouble is that I watch so many games that I cannot remember them all! It is very common for teams who normally plays 7s to take penalty kicks (and conversions) as drops, rather than place kicks. I strongly suspect that this would be the case here.

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Re: Dropgoals

Postby sjbret » Sun, 21 Feb 2021, 23:39

Hi guys, I haven't a perfectly true answer for the 3 points of Chen Ming and I don't know if anyone (except her) could have it.

When I saw the game in live (https://www.facebook.com/asia.rugby/vid ... 904432369/), there was an interruption at 17'36 (0-0) and, as everyone, I could see the rest of the match at 32'56 (https://www.facebook.com/asia.rugby/vid ... 246699320/) with a 3-5 score.

During the game, as I don't understand very well chinese and because I did it for all games in Asia, I was looking too on the Macoocoo site (https://www.macoocoo.com/index.php?r=gr ... =1559&cid=) where I had all the players (with staff and reserves), the statistics (for players who scored, were binned or replaced) and above all the live commentaries, automatically updated every 30 seconds. If my memory serves me right, I red between 28 and 29' the try of Kariyeva and between 29 and 30' a dropgoal of Chen Ming, with a 1 in the DG column for Chen Ming in the statistics. That's why I'm spoken about a DG and not a pen.

But all the statistics on Macoocoo disappeared with a score decided in overtime (!) and the second game no more followed ; Asia Rugby published the same day a short article (https://www.asiarugby.com/2019/07/31/ch ... er-opener/) saying that it was a penalty, an article literally taken by John (sorry John but report and photo came from Asia Rugby) on ScrumQueens (https://www.scrumqueens.com/news/china- ... kazakhstan).

On WR site, it's written that it's a DG but with at least three errors : 3-0 only at half time, the DG at 3' and Kariyeva's try at 30' in the second period !!! (https://www.world.rugby/match/27663).

Glups, where is the truth ?

My opinion is that, considering that Chen Ming, in ARWC D1, kicked penalties and conversions with a tee, even in front of the posts, considering that she attempted a DG in the second game (so she used to), considering that there was only one minute between the kazakh try (with a missed conversion, doubtless by Daurembayeva who had kicked later the pen with a tee in front of the posts, the return to the centre of the field and the restart) and considering that the only trace of a pen is the few detailed article of Asia Rugby, I opted for the dropgoal.

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Re: Dropgoals

Postby Canalina » Mon, 22 Feb 2021, 06:51

Thank you. One of the many little misteries of the obscure years of international women rugby...

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