Tier 2 & 3 Rugby Forum

Womens XVs Rugby - Global news & Developments

User avatar
Posts: 6628
Joined: Sun, 27 Apr 2014, 11:50
National Flag:
ItalyItaly

Re: Womens XVs Rugby - Global news & Developments

Postby Canalina » Tue, 16 Mar 2021, 15:03

According to Italian Federation communicate, the "first cycle" is 2023-24. So two editions. But this could mean that also the 2024 will not produce relegations... Every solved doubt creates an other doubt :|
2025 is a World Cup year, so the next edition after the first cycle will be the 2026 one

https://www.federugby.it/index.php?opti ... 24&lang=it

Posts: 488
Joined: Fri, 25 Apr 2014, 08:10
National Flag:
EnglandEngland

Re: Womens XVs Rugby - Global news & Developments

Postby johnbirch » Tue, 16 Mar 2021, 18:36

Canalina wrote:According to Italian Federation communicate, the "first cycle" is 2023-24. So two editions. But this could mean that also the 2024 will not produce relegations... Every solved doubt creates an other doubt :|
2025 is a World Cup year, so the next edition after the first cycle will be the 2026 one

https://www.federugby.it/index.php?opti ... 24&lang=it
The problem with WXV is that it [url]looks[/url] like a World League when it's [img]actually[/img] a kind of Champions Cup.

Each year is completely separate competition, with teams qualifying for it via regional events in the first half of the year. The "promotion and relegation" thing is very misleading - teams will not be promoted for relegated via the WXV - they will be promoted and relagated via performances at regional level. "Promotion and relegation" will have an effect on the numbre of teams that qualify from each region for each level of the competition.

WXV1 is being reing-fenced so WR can sell it TV and media/sponsors as a north v south tournament, 3 north, 3 south.

WR still do not know how the will decide which European teams will be in WXV2 and WXV3, but the teams will obviously be W6N 4-6 and the Rugby Europe Champions. The fear has to be that the RE Champions will be dumped in WXV3, because Spain would in that case never get out of WXV3 regardless of their performances and ability. You hope that won't happen, but it is clear that the W6N hold all the cards and power (and votes). And Spain just does not seem to be seen as a revenue-producing market.

I think the relegation playoff between the bottom team in WXV3 and the "non-league" is the interesting one. On current form that would be Russia vs Hong Kong, with a Russian win giving RE an extra place in the WXV (not guaranteed to be Russia's). How WR would respond to that would be interesting. I wonder if they's expend WXV3 to 6 teams if that happened?

The final thing is a review of the structure at the end of the two year "cycle".

For what it's worth I am surprised that WR have comtemplated the idea that Australia will not be in WXV1, as Australia have always been a favoured team

Posts: 9049
Joined: Thu, 17 Apr 2014, 02:51
Location: São Paulo
National Flag:
BrazilBrazil

Re: Womens XVs Rugby - Global news & Developments

Postby victorsra » Tue, 16 Mar 2021, 18:53

. The fear has to be that the RE Champions will be dumped in WXV3, because Spain would in that case never get out of WXV3 regardless of their performances and ability.

Spain will be able to play WXV2 if they win ther WXV3, as there will be promotion.

So, for anyone outside 6N and 4N the XXV is unreacheable, but WXV is open for everybody. Will they open WXV1 from 2026?

Posts: 488
Joined: Fri, 25 Apr 2014, 08:10
National Flag:
EnglandEngland

Re: Womens XVs Rugby - Global news & Developments

Postby johnbirch » Tue, 16 Mar 2021, 19:13

victorsra wrote:
. The fear has to be that the RE Champions will be dumped in WXV3, because Spain would in that case never get out of WXV3 regardless of their performances and ability.

Spain will be able to play WXV2 if they win ther WXV3, as there will be promotion.

So, for anyone outside 6N and 4N the XXV is unreacheable, but WXV is open for everybody. Will they open WXV1 from 2026?
No. Not necessarily. It is not the teams that get promoted, its the regions.

If WR decide that the RE champions will be in WXV3, then every year they will be in WXV3. Spain's only hope would be for a non-European team to be relegated from WXV2, in which case Europe would get an extra place in WXV2 which WR might allocate to RE, but might not.

But if the bottom team from WXV2 is European then WXV3 would still have two European spots.

It is a crazy system, but that is what WR have come up with. Essentially it protects W6N teams.

Posts: 9049
Joined: Thu, 17 Apr 2014, 02:51
Location: São Paulo
National Flag:
BrazilBrazil

Re: Womens XVs Rugby - Global news & Developments

Postby victorsra » Tue, 16 Mar 2021, 19:20

Oh, I see, so if Spain wins the WXV3 the 6N have the power of assholeness. They can exclude Spain and give one of them the spot. Right?

Posts: 488
Joined: Fri, 25 Apr 2014, 08:10
National Flag:
EnglandEngland

Re: Womens XVs Rugby - Global news & Developments

Postby johnbirch » Tue, 16 Mar 2021, 19:39

victorsra wrote:Oh, I see, so if Spain wins the WXV3 the 6N have the power of assholeness. They can exclude Spain and give one of them the spot. Right?
That is entirely possible.

One part of me say that "they obviously would not so anything so blatantly unfair".

But then the other half of me looks back over the past 15 years or so and says "oh yes they would".

Frankly the way W6N have behaved - and the way WR have caved in to them EVERY TIME - suggests that if Spain won Europe an extra spot in WXV2 it would be given to a W6N team

Posts: 9049
Joined: Thu, 17 Apr 2014, 02:51
Location: São Paulo
National Flag:
BrazilBrazil

Re: Womens XVs Rugby - Global news & Developments

Postby victorsra » Tue, 16 Mar 2021, 19:53

They will do it unless there is a big outcry on social media that threatens the product - or pressure for sponsors. If they put it in the rules, it is because they want to use that asshole power, if possible. Otherwise, they'd have made it clear.
Last edited by victorsra on Tue, 16 Mar 2021, 19:56, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Posts: 6628
Joined: Sun, 27 Apr 2014, 11:50
National Flag:
ItalyItaly

Re: Womens XVs Rugby - Global news & Developments

Postby Canalina » Tue, 16 Mar 2021, 19:56

Well, I can't agree but I don't want to start the nth t1 v t2 discussion

Some considerations

- promotion to WXV1: I doubt that they will not open the tier 1 of the competition to promotion from WXV2 after the first cycle, because (ethical considerations apart) a closed WXV1 would cut off 50% of interest from WXV2 and WXV3 and would ruin the mission of the competition

- are we sure that Spain’s women rugby market is smaller than the one of Italy, or Canada, or Wales, or Scotland? Also for this reason I doubt that they are going to keep Spain away from pool 1 or even also from pool 2

- how the relegation from pool 3 will work? The line highlighted by Sammo says “A play-off between the fourth-ranked team and next best ranked team from the World Rugby Women’s Rankings will determine regional position for the next year”. What that ‘regional’ means? May they risk that, for example, Russia substitutes the south-american nation after the first cycle and Netherlands substitute the second african team in the next edition or cycle, so ending to have nine european nations out of 16? Or, instead, there will be a fixed contingent for every continent? But in this case it would be illogic to talk about a play-off between the WXV3 bottom ranked and the best other nation ranked, because the subsequent regional tournament would be itself a play-off

Posts: 9049
Joined: Thu, 17 Apr 2014, 02:51
Location: São Paulo
National Flag:
BrazilBrazil

Re: Womens XVs Rugby - Global news & Developments

Postby victorsra » Tue, 16 Mar 2021, 20:09

But you see how open to criticism they let things? Everyone is suspiscious because they haven't made it clear. It is realy hard to get excited when they let decisions mostly in the hands of T1s. It should be written "what happens if a REWC team wins WXV3? It is REWC that wins the promotion spot". The solution is pretty easy, so, why it isn't clear?

Posts: 488
Joined: Fri, 25 Apr 2014, 08:10
National Flag:
EnglandEngland

Re: Womens XVs Rugby - Global news & Developments

Postby johnbirch » Tue, 16 Mar 2021, 20:15

Canalina wrote:- how the relegation from pool 3 will work? The line highlighted by Sammo says “A play-off between the fourth-ranked team and next best ranked team from the World Rugby Women’s Rankings will determine regional position for the next year”. What that ‘regional’ means? May they risk that, for example, Russia substitutes the south-american nation after the first cycle and Netherlands substitute the second african team in the next edition or cycle, so ending to have nine european nations out of 16? Or, instead, there will be a fixed contingent for every continent? But in this case it would be illogic to talk about a play-off between the WXV3 bottom ranked and the best other nation ranked, because the subsequent regional tournament would be itself a play-off
I think in this you get the true flavour of this amazingly confusing announcement.

Did they not reherse this? Did not someone look at the release and say "this makes no sense"?

Posts: 1837
Joined: Sun, 18 May 2014, 13:27
National Flag:
AustraliaAustralia

Re: Womens XVs Rugby - Global news & Developments

Postby Working Class Rugger » Wed, 17 Mar 2021, 01:43

johnbirch wrote:
Canalina wrote:According to Italian Federation communicate, the "first cycle" is 2023-24. So two editions. But this could mean that also the 2024 will not produce relegations... Every solved doubt creates an other doubt :|
2025 is a World Cup year, so the next edition after the first cycle will be the 2026 one

https://www.federugby.it/index.php?opti ... 24&lang=it
The problem with WXV is that it [url]looks[/url] like a World League when it's [img]actually[/img] a kind of Champions Cup.

Each year is completely separate competition, with teams qualifying for it via regional events in the first half of the year. The "promotion and relegation" thing is very misleading - teams will not be promoted for relegated via the WXV - they will be promoted and relagated via performances at regional level. "Promotion and relegation" will have an effect on the numbre of teams that qualify from each region for each level of the competition.

WXV1 is being reing-fenced so WR can sell it TV and media/sponsors as a north v south tournament, 3 north, 3 south.

WR still do not know how the will decide which European teams will be in WXV2 and WXV3, but the teams will obviously be W6N 4-6 and the Rugby Europe Champions. The fear has to be that the RE Champions will be dumped in WXV3, because Spain would in that case never get out of WXV3 regardless of their performances and ability. You hope that won't happen, but it is clear that the W6N hold all the cards and power (and votes). And Spain just does not seem to be seen as a revenue-producing market.

I think the relegation playoff between the bottom team in WXV3 and the "non-league" is the interesting one. On current form that would be Russia vs Hong Kong, with a Russian win giving RE an extra place in the WXV (not guaranteed to be Russia's). How WR would respond to that would be interesting. I wonder if they's expend WXV3 to 6 teams if that happened?

The final thing is a review of the structure at the end of the two year "cycle".

For what it's worth I am surprised that WR have comtemplated the idea that Australia will not be in WXV1, as Australia have always been a favoured team


Did it say that the qualifier series will be the sole means of determining the divisions beyond the first cycle? I read it as a means of doing so in the first cycle before it becoming more fluid in the next. While I'd really like to see the competition between the US, Canada, NZ and Australia become an annual thing I wouldn't want to become some kind of closed shop scenario. Which I think may be a mistake if that's the case. As I view the women's game as a perfect opportunity to provide more mobility and break out of the established set ups a little more.

I also doubt understand why they've gone with the first two divisions featuring 6 teams while the 3rd has only 4. Especially if they are going to host these in as mini-tournaments in a single location. Why not 3 x 6. For the sake of both inclusiveness and symmetry.

User avatar
Posts: 6628
Joined: Sun, 27 Apr 2014, 11:50
National Flag:
ItalyItaly

Re: Womens XVs Rugby - Global news & Developments

Postby Canalina » Wed, 17 Mar 2021, 06:21

Maybe they think 16 is a border number, currently. We’ve seen Netherlands, #17 in the world, fielding an unexperienced team and losing largely with Spain; Kazakhstan, #15, is a bit a mysterious entity because they don’t play since some years; Sweden, #19, has perhaps not a national team in this moment; Germany, #20, retired from the Euro Championship due to lack of funds; China and T&Tobago, #23 and #25, have not a national (XV) team currently; Tonga, #26, lost heavily in the qualifiers… All in all, the landscape behind the first 14 ranked teams seems a bit uncertain and unpredictable and maybe the organizers just want to have not bad surprises. There will be time, funds permitting, to enlarge eventually the participants number

User avatar
Posts: 6628
Joined: Sun, 27 Apr 2014, 11:50
National Flag:
ItalyItaly

Re: Womens XVs Rugby - Global news & Developments

Postby Canalina » Wed, 17 Mar 2021, 11:06

A photo from rugbyfemenino.es
Are the women teams in Spain playing with the mask? Is it maybe for this reason that all their championships, also the regional ones, are going on? I mean, maybe they decided to avoid the expensive two covid-tests per week and to opt for a lighter procedure involving the use of the mask on the field

Image

Posts: 4985
Joined: Tue, 06 Oct 2015, 22:54
National Flag:
SpainSpain

Re: Womens XVs Rugby - Global news & Developments

Postby Armchair Fan » Wed, 17 Mar 2021, 11:26

Spanish sport is decentralised and each body has its own rules, agreed with their government.

National leagues are played without masks because tests are mandatory before every game, they are just strongly recommended in training as long as the test hasn't been done. It's what FER agreed with CSD (more or less like your CONI, even though it is separate from COE, our Olympic committee).

From third tier, leagues are organised by regional federations, FER has no say, and they must reach agreements with regional governments. And in Madrid, where that photo was taken, rugby only went ahead with revised rules to avoid long contacts and masks. But that doesn't happen in other regions.

User avatar
Posts: 6628
Joined: Sun, 27 Apr 2014, 11:50
National Flag:
ItalyItaly

Re: Womens XVs Rugby - Global news & Developments

Postby Canalina » Wed, 17 Mar 2021, 12:41

Thanks. It's a bit surreal to see people playing with the mask, but it's just because I'm not used to it

Posts: 1966
Joined: Tue, 27 May 2014, 20:40
Location: Europe
National Flag:
Great BritainGreat Britain

Re: Womens XVs Rugby - Global news & Developments

Postby Thomas » Wed, 17 Mar 2021, 13:23

After reading all kinds of threads and telling my boss I was working on the IT Project, i delved into the rabbit hole that is this new women's league and this is how I see it:

(John correct me if I am wrong)

I know the whole thing is clear as mud we get that, but lets look at it from the other side of the coin if there is such thing

We know investment is important and needed, some compromises NEED to be made to get it off the ground & attract the needed interest. However, how will it even out over time with the entire women’s Programme? e.g. Spain, Kazakhstan, Kenya, Colombia to name a few.

A true vision of a global competition is needed. This is step 1 & there are several steps still needed. Putting on my PM Hat on you need to create performance markers (commercial and on field) before you can move to the next step. What Metric they have in place? What are the collaborative effort of self-organizing and cross-functional teams to make it happen? How you going to reach the end user (existing and new fans) This should allow for strategic investments to get to the end goal.

I would like to see the strategic paper and what's on it.

User avatar
Posts: 6628
Joined: Sun, 27 Apr 2014, 11:50
National Flag:
ItalyItaly

Re: Womens XVs Rugby - Global news & Developments

Postby Canalina » Wed, 17 Mar 2021, 16:49

Just a photo popped up today, the first 6N captains photo for Italy, in february 2007. Fourteen years ago

Image

http://www.sportcampania.it/4-febbraio- ... ellitalia/

Posts: 488
Joined: Fri, 25 Apr 2014, 08:10
National Flag:
EnglandEngland

Re: Womens XVs Rugby - Global news & Developments

Postby johnbirch » Wed, 17 Mar 2021, 21:44

Thomas wrote:After reading all kinds of threads and telling my boss I was working on the IT Project, i delved into the rabbit hole that is this new women's league and this is how I see it:

(John correct me if I am wrong)

I know the whole thing is clear as mud we get that, but lets look at it from the other side of the coin if there is such thing

We know investment is important and needed, some compromises NEED to be made to get it off the ground & attract the needed interest. However, how will it even out over time with the entire women’s Programme? e.g. Spain, Kazakhstan, Kenya, Colombia to name a few.

A true vision of a global competition is needed. This is step 1 & there are several steps still needed. Putting on my PM Hat on you need to create performance markers (commercial and on field) before you can move to the next step. What Metric they have in place? What are the collaborative effort of self-organizing and cross-functional teams to make it happen? How you going to reach the end user (existing and new fans) This should allow for strategic investments to get to the end goal.

I would like to see the strategic paper and what's on it.
It is a mistake to look on it as a single, unified, competition. It is - at best - three separate competitions, but in practice it is a means to an end of getting the leading nations to play more tests against other countries from around the world, and also play at roughly the same level (so ideally no 100-0 scorelines).

The "league" format is an illusion, an irrelevance. It is, having thought about it, a means to sell the thing to the media. WR can sell a "league" format much easier than a series of friendly matches.

But the bottom line is that Spain/Kenya/Colombia get a minimum of three competitive test matches each year against varied worldwide opposition.

If they are in WXV3 and they outplay everyone then their region's spot in WXV might be moved up to WXV2. But that - to a great extent - is distraction.

User avatar
Posts: 6628
Joined: Sun, 27 Apr 2014, 11:50
National Flag:
ItalyItaly

Re: Womens XVs Rugby - Global news & Developments

Postby Canalina » Thu, 18 Mar 2021, 15:47

Rugby Europe announced the (highly anticipated) cancellation of the Euro women Trophy 2021, alongside all the men's categories from Trophy downward.
https://www.rugbyeurope.eu/news/decisio ... petitions/

The doubt is: the tournament played by Spa, Rus and Ned and ended few weeks ago is classified in the website as RE Championship 2020. So we should expect an Euro Championship 2021? It seems unlikely, but maybe they hope to play it in late summer or autumn

User avatar
Posts: 607
Joined: Tue, 22 Apr 2014, 13:36
National Flag:
ScotlandScotland

Re: Womens XVs Rugby - Global news & Developments

Postby mcruic » Thu, 25 Mar 2021, 17:02

The Euro Women's Trophy 2019/20 only had 1 match left - Sweden v Switzerland (effectively a play-off for 2nd place) - I take it that season is considered finished with 1 match outstanding?

https://www.rugbyeurope.eu/competitions ... y-2019-20/
http://theroonba.com Results, fixtures, rankings

User avatar
Posts: 6628
Joined: Sun, 27 Apr 2014, 11:50
National Flag:
ItalyItaly

Re: Womens XVs Rugby - Global news & Developments

Postby Canalina » Fri, 26 Mar 2021, 16:35

mcruic wrote:The Euro Women's Trophy 2019/20 only had 1 match left - Sweden v Switzerland (effectively a play-off for 2nd place) - I take it that season is considered finished with 1 match outstanding?

https://www.rugbyeurope.eu/competitions ... y-2019-20/

Yes, I think Rugby Europe somewhen wrote explicitely that the Trophy 2020 was to be considered concluded

- - -

This sunday afternoon there's the portoguese championship final live on https://rugbytv.pt/direto

At 15.00 local (16.00 CET ?) Sporting Lisbon v Benfica

Posts: 1966
Joined: Tue, 27 May 2014, 20:40
Location: Europe
National Flag:
Great BritainGreat Britain

Re: Womens XVs Rugby - Global news & Developments

Postby Thomas » Sun, 28 Mar 2021, 17:20

The Lionesses of RâguebiSCP beat SL Benfica by 11-8 and become National Honor Division XV champions

Image

User avatar
Posts: 6628
Joined: Sun, 27 Apr 2014, 11:50
National Flag:
ItalyItaly

Re: Womens XVs Rugby - Global news & Developments

Postby Canalina » Thu, 08 Apr 2021, 08:51

Also rugger.info dedicates an article to the 30th anniversary of the first World Cup, with a nice photo (very '90s) of the Soviet team

Big anniversary in our rugby.

On April 8, 1991, in the Welsh town of Llanharan, the Soviet Union team played its first match at the first ever women's World Cup. Preparation for that tournament was fraught with all the difficulties inherent in 1991, but in spite of everything the Soviet rugby players under the leadership of Vladimir Kobzev went to Wales.
The tournament calendar was compiled very tightly, the matches were played with a break of only one day: on April 8 our team played against the Netherlands national team (0:28), and on the 10th we were opposed by the future world champions - rugby players from the USA (0:46) ...
The USSR national team played their next match in a consolation tournament for 5-12 places, where they lost to the Canadians with a score of 0:38
Yes ... It was not possible to win or even score points in three matches played in four days, but the whole world learned about women's rugby in the country of the Soviets.

The composition of the USSR national team at the 1991 World Cup for women:
Maria Lenskaya, Tatyana Belyakova, Svetlana Kuzina, Nadezhda Nikonova, Natalya Prikhodko, Maria Vinnikova, Larisa Zakharova, Elena Lyapunova, Anna Borisova, Elena Shavrova, Rimma Petlevannaya, Mochia Rose-Marie, Natalia Zvyagina, Olga Kutuzova, Irina Belya Korzakova, Irina Korzakova, Marina Trofimenkova, Valentina Andreeva, Irina Apukhtina, Irina Mukhanova (captain), Irina Masalova.

https://rugger.info/news/40106

User avatar
Posts: 6628
Joined: Sun, 27 Apr 2014, 11:50
National Flag:
ItalyItaly

Re: Womens XVs Rugby - Global news & Developments

Postby Canalina » Thu, 08 Apr 2021, 15:32


Posts: 1966
Joined: Tue, 27 May 2014, 20:40
Location: Europe
National Flag:
Great BritainGreat Britain

Re: Womens XVs Rugby - Global news & Developments

Postby Thomas » Sat, 10 Apr 2021, 18:19

DHB Women: Catalan final for a place in the Iberdrola League 2021-22
Restricted entry due to Corona Virus
http://ferugby.es/dhb-fem-final-catalana-por-una-plaza-directa-en-la-liga-iberdrola

Image

PreviousNext

Return to Women's Rugby

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 2 guests