The Rugby Championship

[rampage Profile]

One thing I like about the 6 Nations is that it isn't just the men's teams. In parallel to the 6 Nations, there is the women's 6 Nations and Under 20's 6 Nations.

What I was thinking about is why The Rugby Championship hasn't also brought this idea in.

Now, given the distances, it would be easier to run a 4-team 1 week competition. Given that Argentina's women's program is in hiatus, either Samoa or Japan could fill the fourth spot.

It would run in a week when one nations hosts consecutive games, and the host nation hosts their weekend home games as the curtain raiser to the Rugby Championship game.

Hosting rights would rotate between the three TRC nations (Australia, New Zealand & South Africa) in the non-WRWC years, and gets hosted earlier in the non-TRC nations home (Samoa/Japan) in WRWC years.

The main drawback is that NZ could see this tournament as beneath them, but they could use this tournament to blood new players. The other is, of course, the cost of running the tournament.

It could be a good idea - what does everyone think?

[nick511 Profile]

It's a good idea. But there are few problems. Firstly travel and funding is the major issue, the unions such as Australia and NZ only usually give limited money for Women's overseas tours. Such as last year where NZ only went to one tourny with Canada, USA and England. South Africa considers their program pretty much second class I mean they didn't even let their Women's sevens team go to the Olympics 'because they weren't going to be competitive'. As you mention Argentina's program is pretty much non-existent, even Australia is focusing on 7s more these days and they've never beaten NZ in an official match.

The Women's Six Nations has the luxury of having not to far to travel and being aligned with the men's and u20 6N. NZ definitely considers their rivals are north of the equator. But I guess they could send a development team or something. I think the NZ team is playing a series with England this year as I think they have agreements.

[Canalina Profile]

It's a good idea, the major obstacle is (as usual) the ratio between costs and interest. Before organizing a regular tournament they could start playing just some women matches per year, maybe as curtain raisers of the men's games.

[thatrugbyguy Profile]

How is it there is no women's program in Argentina?

[victorsra Profile Website]

Argentina women's rugby has a extremely low level. In sevens they have never beaten Brazil! Argentina has started women's XV development too, but the main issue is that almost none of the biggest clubs in the country support women's rugby. It is shameful in fact. They support the idea that "women should not play rugby, they should play hockey", as "rugby is not a sport for women". The most ridiculous thing is that their argument is "its our culture", another phrase for sexism. But when I say this to Argentines they complain that I am Brazilian and I don't understand their centenary rugby "culture".

In spite of this UAR is trying to move on with women's rugby. A good exception is Cardenales RC, from Tucumán, an important club in local rugby that is supporting women's rugby, but I know very little about these developments.

[Raven Profile]

It is an old post but gave it a read and things haven´t changed that much in the Womens rugby scene. Perhaps the gap between Australia and South Africa is a bit closer, but the Black Ferns are a step above the rest.

One thing that hasn´t changed for sure is the Argentine mentality towards women´s rugby.

In spite of this UAR is trying to move on with women's rugby. A good exception is Cardenales RC, from Tucumán, an important club in local rugby that is supporting women's rugby, but I know very little about these developments.

I think you can add La Plata Rugby Club from the Buenos Aires Rugby Union, quite a traditional club, that very well said they didn´t wanted women to play Field Hockey in their club because A) there´s enough hockey clubs women can join in the area if they want to practice the sport and B) they are a RUGBY CLUB nuff said!

[NaBUru38 Profile]

In Uruguay and Argentina, women's rugby XV is pretty much non-existant. There's women's sevens, but they get very little support. Converting the Torneo Valentín Martínez into the de facto South American Sevens is the biggest news so far.

[NaBUru38 Profile]

As for Australia and South Africa, they should partner Japan, United States, Canada and Spain.

[johnbirch Profile]

Women's rugby needs to move away from a reflex mimicing of men's structures. Sitting around waiting for Argentina to lead the game in South America is a massive waste of time. And South Africa may be going on a European tour this autumn, but the support for the women's game within the SARU is barely better than in Argentina

It is apparent that the key nations in South America are Colombia and Brazil - though Brazil needs to change its attitude to XVs as otherwise Colombia will move ahead of them - while in Africa Kenya is well ahead if RSA at 7s, and the support being given to women suggests that Zimbabwe, Zambia or Botswana would probably take the lead at XVs too given even a small amount of financial support.

But in practice Asia is well ahead of both regions and for the next foreseeale future only they could hope to compete with Australia and New Zealand

So the only viable women's "Rugby Championship" for the time being would have to be something like Australia, New Zealand, Japan and Hong Kong.

[TheStroBro Profile]

Why not Australia, New Zealand, USA, CAN?

[carbonero Profile]

Argentina women's rugby has a extremely low level. In sevens they have never beaten Brazil! Argentina has started women's XV development too, but the main issue is that almost none of the biggest clubs in the country support women's rugby. It is shameful in fact. They support the idea that "women should not play rugby, they should play hockey", as "rugby is not a sport for women". The most ridiculous thing is that their argument is "its our culture", another phrase for sexism. But when I say this to Argentines they complain that I am Brazilian and I don't understand their centenary rugby "culture".

Although the backwards sentiment that women shouldn’t play rugby prevails, there is still a cultural element that explains why they play hockey. We have multisport clubs. Most of them have been playing hockey since their inception (CASI, SIC, Belgrano, Lomas, Atl. Rosario, Olivos, San Martin, etc.). Others added hockey in the 60's, 70’s and 80’s. The first women’s rugby side is the country was funded 1985. Looking into the first two divisions of URBA, 20 of 26 clubs already played hockey in 1990. The traditional clubs are not the answer. That ship has sailed. They should focus all their attention in the lower leagues.

Also, this weekend was the URBA Final. La Plata RC won their 4th consecutive title. They play 10s in Buenos Aires > https://www.clarin.com/deportes/rugby/p ... jm-OY.html

[ficcp Profile]

Argentina women's rugby has a extremely low level. In sevens they have never beaten Brazil! Argentina has started women's XV development too, but the main issue is that almost none of the biggest clubs in the country support women's rugby. It is shameful in fact. They support the idea that "women should not play rugby, they should play hockey", as "rugby is not a sport for women". The most ridiculous thing is that their argument is "its our culture", another phrase for sexism. But when I say this to Argentines they complain that I am Brazilian and I don't understand their centenary rugby "culture".

Although the backwards sentiment that women shouldn’t play rugby prevails, there is still a cultural element that explains why they play hockey. We have multisport clubs. Most of them have been playing hockey since their inception (CASI, SIC, Belgrano, Lomas, Atl. Rosario, Olivos, San Martin, etc.). Others added hockey in the 60's, 70’s and 80’s. The first women’s rugby side is the country was funded 1985. Looking into the first two divisions of URBA, 20 of 26 clubs already played hockey in 1990. The traditional clubs are not the answer. That ship has sailed. They should focus all their attention in the lower leagues.

Also, this weekend was the URBA Final. La Plata RC won their 4th consecutive title. They play 10s in Buenos Aires > https://www.clarin.com/deportes/rugby/p ... jm-OY.html

Very good Explanation for the argentinian reality ,but what about the other latinamerican countries? It seems that only brazil has a 15 women competition.

¿Is it a cultural position ("Rugby is not for women") which allows the Rugby Seven only as a "lighter and acceptable version for Women ", or is the Financial Position that keeps pouring money to the game which can bring medals (seven) but not the other(fifteen?

[NaBUru38 Profile]

Uruguay has very few female rugby players at all. Fielding two teams of 15 players plus substitutes is not easy at all.

Except for football, organized sports are not very popular, people usually choose pickup games.

[Thomas Profile]

I feel after all this years that Argentina should be brought to account, their alleged development of Women's Rugby is pitiful. Been there and seen it and leaves much to be desired.

Colombia is building a 15 XV's Program in addition to Brazil

Other Nations need to stop following Argentina and South America Rugby and start building their own program. Mexico needs to review their program is stagnant at best.
Having been there (Mexico) in January the players are keen and want to play more Rugby and develop other than 7's tournaments in endless cycles. The leadership needs to take Women's program more seriously.

[carbonero Profile]

I feel after all this years that Argentina should be brought to account, their alleged development of Women's Rugby is pitiful. Been there and seen it and leaves much to be desired.

Can you elaborate more? Where did you travel? What did you see?

[Thomas Profile]

I was last there traveling in 2014-2015 across the country. plenty of Rugby don't take me wrong but I didn't see development that I was expecting. I went mainly to Western Argentina.

Ever since I hear the same arguments, the fact they didn't get a proper team for the Olympics 2016 tells you everything. if they were that keen in women's development they would have a burgeoning program alongside Men's.

[TheStroBro Profile]

So our coach was like "We have 28 more matches before the WC" in Chicago...is there a tournament being organized that we haven't heard about or is that a lot of smoke?

Mexico needs to review their program is stagnant at best.

Having been there (Mexico) in January the players are keen and want to play more Rugby and develop other than 7's tournaments in endless cycles. The leadership needs to take Women's program more seriously.

Mexico is investing in the longer game. This year the RAN Championships for women were 10s rather than 7s the few previous years during that period. The final was against USA South. So it's moving along...but for the most part not many else in RAN are building a women's program at all.

[carbonero Profile]

I was last there traveling in 2014-2015 across the country. plenty of Rugby don't take me wrong but I didn't see development that I was expecting. I went mainly to Western Argentina.

Ever since I hear the same arguments, the fact they didn't get a proper team for the Olympics 2016 tells you everything. if they were that keen in women's development they would have a burgeoning program alongside Men's.

Fair enough. Western Argentina meaning Cuyo? Or the west of Buenos Aires province? Cause both unions don’t make it into the top 10 in playing numbers. This year the UAR will most likely pass the 4.000 player mark. We won’t be seeing a XVs program anytime soon but the 7s team should start showing some signs of improvement.

[Armchair Fan Profile]

Carbonero, without willing to be mean, is it possible to know the exact role of Bárbara Pichot now that she seems to be the 'voice' of women's rugby in Argentina? Is she set to be UAR female member at World Rugby Council?

[carbonero Profile]

Don’t worry man. You have every right to be cynic here. I don’t have any inside info but we both know that she will take that seat in the council. Have you seen her Instagram account? That sudden interest in Women’s rugby coincides with the realignment in the council.

She got some extra attention. The Olé feature is pretty good. Again, the code is showing some promising sings. But Pichot’s cronyism has no boundaries.

[Armchair Fan Profile]

Apart from Olé's article, I listened to her in a radio show for almost half an hour and it's just bizarre given she has no official role as I understand.

[NaBUru38 Profile]

The Pichots can easily develop a Las Pumas high performance program. But the top clubs are uninterested in women's rugby.

[carbonero Profile]

We were wrong. Sol Iglesias became the general manager of the UAR and will also take the vacant seat in the WR Council. She has been working in the union for almost 20 years.

Plus, Barbara Pichot will announce this Friday some sort of venture around women’s rugby with former Puma Gonzalo Camacho. I think she will try to prop up the youth game that is almost non-existent in the country.

[Armchair Fan Profile]

Mea culpa.

[carbonero Profile]

This year the UAR will most likely pass the 4.000 player mark.

4.430 registered players in 2018(+24%) > https://www.lanacion.com.ar/2216865-try ... enino-esta