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2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby Thomas » Fri, 30 Aug 2019, 10:25

I just listened and I am like seriously??

To paraphrase Churchill: Winners have the power to manipulate the past to attain their present-day goals. that is how I see it. the present regime is trying to close the circle for their own purposes across the game.

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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby Canalina » Wed, 02 Oct 2019, 04:30

Pre-news confirmed about the november's Oceania Cup.
Six teams: NZ Development, Australia A, Fiji, Samoa, Tonga, Papua Guinea.
Four days of play: 18, 22 (?), 26 (?), 30 november

It should be a World Cup qualifier, even if the article doesn't say almost anything about
http://www.oceaniarugby.com/pageitem.as ... tyID=66726

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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby johnbirch » Wed, 02 Oct 2019, 19:18

Armchair Fan wrote:In this radio interview Katie Sadleir claims they opted for this choice of new branding because it was going to make the bigger impact:
https://www.ivoox.com/world-rugby-the-f ... 505_1.html

It infuriated me how they try to sell the idea that *this tournament* is conceived on par with *the other one*. We all know it's not true. But by conceding interviews to mainstream media they rarely face the hard questions and can just spread their propaganda.
I wonder if this means that success in the [women's] world cup would now be used to determine the number of places on Council, like success in the men's does?

If not then the "equality" really counts for nothing.

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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby Return_of_BG_97 » Thu, 03 Oct 2019, 01:37

johnbirch wrote:
Armchair Fan wrote:In this radio interview Katie Sadleir claims they opted for this choice of new branding because it was going to make the bigger impact:
https://www.ivoox.com/world-rugby-the-f ... 505_1.html

It infuriated me how they try to sell the idea that *this tournament* is conceived on par with *the other one*. We all know it's not true. But by conceding interviews to mainstream media they rarely face the hard questions and can just spread their propaganda.
I wonder if this means that success in the [women's] world cup would now be used to determine the number of places on Council, like success in the men's does?

If not then the "equality" really counts for nothing.


If that's the case there's a practical problem here.

As someone who has invested a fair amount of time with women's football in Mexico I'm far too familiar with these obstacles, whether it's cultural, financial, or having to deal with an air of doubt and pessimism everywhere. Only finally do we have a women's soccer league, and even still there are issues and complaints that need to be ironed out (from both the Mexican public and outsiders). It's even more infuriating when some outsider writes a puff piece and has no insight on the topicwhatsoever (this tends to be an issue with feminists from more developed countries critiquing poorer ones but let's not go there).

In the end, the reason Liga MX Femenil is a thing is because women's football is now profitable. Most people know that men's/women's football are not equal (unless you're Billie King and you suggest something as asinine as the USWNT forming their own association, which FIFA would kill immediately) but there is a lot of money and clout in the women's game. Players like Alex Morgan, etc are idols and I can see women's football easily overtaking many other sports in popularity (like cricket). Heck, the WWC might be bigger than the RWC.

Rugby has only been finding its footing in the last 20 years globally because the sport decided that the old Anglo-Saxon Celtic farts running the show were messing with its potential. Japan has emerged as a potential market, Europe and Latin America may be on the horizon. Even Africa isn't crazy given the middle class boom there.

There are enough issues with the men's game as it is and unfortunately the priority will be there. I'm curious with the financials of women's rugby, and how "valuable" it is to WR. Will nations like Georgia, Argentina, the PIs, etc be limited in power because they aren't growing women's rugby? Do Canada, the USA, and Spain deserve more power because so? I think the answer will be determined by whether WR sees how beneficial each route is.

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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby TheStroBro » Fri, 04 Oct 2019, 04:29

How is Liga MX Femenil profitable? With the NWSL, without the subsidization from Canada Soccer, FMF, and USSF the NWSL would not exist. It's most definitely not profitable.

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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby Return_of_BG_97 » Sun, 06 Oct 2019, 19:56

TheStroBro wrote:How is Liga MX Femenil profitable? With the NWSL, without the subsidization from Canada Soccer, FMF, and USSF the NWSL would not exist. It's most definitely not profitable.


It's not (and I think you misread my comment). It's essentially a pet project by the Liga MX to develop women's football, make the Mexico women's side better (and more profitable, because pocho money), and (I assume) host the Women's World Cup in the future (2027?). Also, I think FMF wants to host the U-20/U-17 WWC which would be wise (Mexico's youth women's sides are great). I was more talking about the cultural barriers about getting it started, and by extension the financial ones (machismo can't die sooner enough). But the fact that it's a priority tells me that FMF has bigger plans for women's football, and they most certainly want to host some tournaments.

In the past, there was an attempt for a more independent women's league which mostly failed. They tried to bring big money investors, but the entire set-up was bush league and by 2009 I believe only Puebla had a serious women's side.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liga_Mexi ... ol_Femenil

Prior to 2017, for most women's footballers after college you either hoped to play to whatever lower league side in the USA/Europe or play for what was basically a pub league, hell might as well have been a rec league.

Anyway, the point I was trying to make was that women's football is big (on the international stage) so it makes sense for countries to invest in it, and increase their bargaining power with FIFA. I don't think we have that with rugby, which makes the whole thing of 'gender-neutral' cups so bizzare.

EDIT: bloody wikipedia links glitching out on me

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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby thatrugbyguy » Tue, 08 Oct 2019, 08:48

Return_of_BG_97 wrote:
If that's the case there's a practical problem here.

As someone who has invested a fair amount of time with women's football in Mexico I'm far too familiar with these obstacles, whether it's cultural, financial, or having to deal with an air of doubt and pessimism everywhere. Only finally do we have a women's soccer league, and even still there are issues and complaints that need to be ironed out (from both the Mexican public and outsiders). It's even more infuriating when some outsider writes a puff piece and has no insight on the topicwhatsoever (this tends to be an issue with feminists from more developed countries critiquing poorer ones but let's not go there).

In the end, the reason Liga MX Femenil is a thing is because women's football is now profitable. Most people know that men's/women's football are not equal (unless you're Billie King and you suggest something as asinine as the USWNT forming their own association, which FIFA would kill immediately) but there is a lot of money and clout in the women's game. Players like Alex Morgan, etc are idols and I can see women's football easily overtaking many other sports in popularity (like cricket). Heck, the WWC might be bigger than the RWC.

Rugby has only been finding its footing in the last 20 years globally because the sport decided that the old Anglo-Saxon Celtic farts running the show were messing with its potential. Japan has emerged as a potential market, Europe and Latin America may be on the horizon. Even Africa isn't crazy given the middle class boom there.

There are enough issues with the men's game as it is and unfortunately the priority will be there. I'm curious with the financials of women's rugby, and how "valuable" it is to WR. Will nations like Georgia, Argentina, the PIs, etc be limited in power because they aren't growing women's rugby? Do Canada, the USA, and Spain deserve more power because so? I think the answer will be determined by whether WR sees how beneficial each route is.


Here's the problem I have with the way WR have gone about this. They've essentially said that women are both important and unimportant at the same time. On one hand they are doing promotion campaigns that specifically mention women, whilst at the same time dropping the world Women from their own world cup. The problem is by saying the Rugby World Cup brand is the more valuable and attaching the Women's WC to that name, they are more or less saying without even realising it that the word 'Woman' itself has no commercial value. In other words, the Women are not good enough to have a world cup that proudly displays who it is who's playing, it's relying entirely on the Men to get them in the spotlight. It is without doubt the most 19th Century form of thinking I've ever seen from an organisation. Decades after women demanded they be allowed to forge their own path in life, World Rugby has more or less said they women's game has no value unless it's attached to the men's. That is a step backwards by any measure.

And unfortunately for the girls they are the ones who are going to suffer. The reality is most people barely even know the women's world cup exists, and all it's going to do is get lost amongst the news cycle for the mens tournament.

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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby Return_of_BG_97 » Wed, 09 Oct 2019, 02:13

thatrugbyguy wrote:
Return_of_BG_97 wrote:
If that's the case there's a practical problem here.

As someone who has invested a fair amount of time with women's football in Mexico I'm far too familiar with these obstacles, whether it's cultural, financial, or having to deal with an air of doubt and pessimism everywhere. Only finally do we have a women's soccer league, and even still there are issues and complaints that need to be ironed out (from both the Mexican public and outsiders). It's even more infuriating when some outsider writes a puff piece and has no insight on the topicwhatsoever (this tends to be an issue with feminists from more developed countries critiquing poorer ones but let's not go there).

In the end, the reason Liga MX Femenil is a thing is because women's football is now profitable. Most people know that men's/women's football are not equal (unless you're Billie King and you suggest something as asinine as the USWNT forming their own association, which FIFA would kill immediately) but there is a lot of money and clout in the women's game. Players like Alex Morgan, etc are idols and I can see women's football easily overtaking many other sports in popularity (like cricket). Heck, the WWC might be bigger than the RWC.

Rugby has only been finding its footing in the last 20 years globally because the sport decided that the old Anglo-Saxon Celtic farts running the show were messing with its potential. Japan has emerged as a potential market, Europe and Latin America may be on the horizon. Even Africa isn't crazy given the middle class boom there.

There are enough issues with the men's game as it is and unfortunately the priority will be there. I'm curious with the financials of women's rugby, and how "valuable" it is to WR. Will nations like Georgia, Argentina, the PIs, etc be limited in power because they aren't growing women's rugby? Do Canada, the USA, and Spain deserve more power because so? I think the answer will be determined by whether WR sees how beneficial each route is.


Here's the problem I have with the way WR have gone about this. They've essentially said that women are both important and unimportant at the same time. On one hand they are doing promotion campaigns that specifically mention women, whilst at the same time dropping the world Women from their own world cup. The problem is by saying the Rugby World Cup brand is the more valuable and attaching the Women's WC to that name, they are more or less saying without even realising it that the word 'Woman' itself has no commercial value. In other words, the Women are not good enough to have a world cup that proudly displays who it is who's playing, it's relying entirely on the Men to get them in the spotlight. It is without doubt the most 19th Century form of thinking I've ever seen from an organisation. Decades after women demanded they be allowed to forge their own path in life, World Rugby has more or less said they women's game has no value unless it's attached to the men's. That is a step backwards by any measure.

And unfortunately for the girls they are the ones who are going to suffer. The reality is most people barely even know the women's world cup exists, and all it's going to do is get lost amongst the news cycle for the mens tournament.


The WR organization is still very much run by the old Anglo-Saxon Celtic fossils as it was when it was IRB. The only difference is that they are slowly dying out, but old habits die hard.

Actually now that you think about it this seems like a very cynical attempt at maximizing profit from each source while "caring about equality". The Women's World Cup doesn't need to be "neutral", it [i]is rightfully the women's world cup, not the men's/i].

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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby victorsra » Sun, 17 Nov 2019, 18:51

Tomorrow kicks off the Oceania Qualy in Lautoka, Fiji.

Group A: NZ Development, Samoa and Tonga
Group B: Australia A, Fiji and PNG
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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby mcruic » Mon, 18 Nov 2019, 16:35

Not sure what the format is for the Oceania Women's XVs, but the teams seem to play all the teams in the other group rather than teams in their own group.

Today's games:
Samoa 65-12 PNG
Fiji 0-53 New Zealand Development

Australia Development v Tonga cancelled (both teams awarded 2 points - suspected measles case for one of Tonga's players).

22 Nov:
Australia Dev. v NZ Dev.
Fiji v Samoa
PNG v Tonga

26 Nov:
NZ Dev. v PNG
Australia Dev. v Samoa
Fiji v Tonga

30 Nov:
2nd Pool A v 2nd Pool B
1st Pool A v 1st Pool B

(Possibly Australia and NZ not eligible for the finals games on 30 Nov).
http://theroonba.com Results, fixtures, rankings

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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby johnbirch » Thu, 21 Nov 2019, 11:30

Tonga now confirmed to have withdrawn from the Oceania qualifier due to the measles outbreak http://www.oceaniarugby.com/pageitem.aspx?id=179624&id2=1&eID=66726&entityID=66726

Obviously a serious medical problem (casued by the ludicrus American anti-vaccination propaganda getting picked up in a very religious country) but it also makes a bit of a mess of the competition. Samoa now qualify for the final on Saturday 30th regardless of their results (as Tonga were the only non-qualified team in their pool), and will play either Fiji or Papua dependent on their relative performances against the New Zealand development team and and now somewhat disinterested Samoa. Surely arranging a simple semi-final between Fiji and Papua would have been more sensible?

Australia and New Zealand now have no game on the 30th, so the overall title winner will presumably be decided by tomorrow's game between the two teams.

This is the second time a World Cup qualification tournament has been decided by points games by teams in the other pool (the last one was in Spain in 2012) and neither has worked well.

Tonga, meanwhile, are presumably eliminated without playing a game.

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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby Canalina » Sat, 21 Dec 2019, 20:13

johnbirch wrote:Tonga now confirmed to have withdrawn from the Oceania qualifier due to the measles outbreak
...
Tonga, meanwhile, are presumably eliminated without playing a game.

As probably you all already know, Tonga was given an other chance to qualify. They will play at the beginning of 2020 a barrage with Samoa and then eventually a second barrage with Fiji

About the european qualifying, I've seen that after the german withdraw the Euro Championship calendar is even more unbalanced: two home games for Spain, one for the Netherlands, no one for Russia. I wonder if they are considering to switch the venue of Spain-Russia
https://www.rugbyeurope.eu/competitions ... ampionship

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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby Armchair Fan » Sat, 21 Dec 2019, 20:22

I wish it could be possible (really, it would be hypocritical not to), but at least that schedule follows the same principle as European qualifiers later in the season: it benefits the best ranked team.

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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby Canalina » Fri, 03 Jan 2020, 17:18

Colombia v Brazil in march

So confirmed no Argentina or other national teams

Image

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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby victorsra » Mon, 06 Jan 2020, 01:52

Very sad Argentina is not going to play the RWC Qualy. They are working women's 15s already there. More than us.
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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby Thomas » Mon, 06 Jan 2020, 20:36

victorsra wrote:Very sad Argentina is not going to play the RWC Qualy. They are working women's 15s already there. More than us.


in agreement with you there, after years of trying Argentina got something going, I really do hope is sustainable and for the long term with a viable league. A bit sceptical but time will tell.

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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby Thomas » Mon, 06 Jan 2020, 20:36

victorsra wrote:Very sad Argentina is not going to play the RWC Qualy. They are working women's 15s already there. More than us.


in agreement with you there, after years of trying Argentina got something going, I really do hope is sustainable and for the long term with a viable league. A bit sceptical but time will tell.

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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby victorsra » Wed, 08 Jan 2020, 22:24

March 7th - Colombia vs Brazil

April 18th - Kenya vs Colombia/Brazil
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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby victorsra » Fri, 10 Jan 2020, 14:56

If I am not wrong, there are now 15 countries playing for the last 3 places in the 2021 WC.

Playing for the Asian spot: Japan, Hong Kong, Kazakhstan
Playing for the European spo: Ireland, Italy, Scotland, Spain, Netherlands, Russia
Playing for the Repechage spot: Samoa, Tonga, Kenya, Brazil, Colombia, 1 Asian, 1 European;
Last edited by victorsra on Tue, 28 Jan 2020, 19:02, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby victorsra » Mon, 27 Jan 2020, 18:53

China is realy out.

https://www.asiarugby.com/2020/01/27/wo ... qualifier/

Saturday 14 March: Hong Kong v Kazakhstan
Wednesday 18 March: Kazakhstan v Japan
Sunday 22 March: Hong Kong v Japan

All matches in HK.
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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby rey200 » Mon, 27 Jan 2020, 19:34

that's not that bad considering China lost last year on aggregate against Kazakhstan. Why? Because you don't just make games not count. It's not really a rugby speciality, but I really hate it. Stick to your own rules ffss
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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby Canalina » Tue, 04 Feb 2020, 08:20

Image

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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 04 Feb 2020, 09:03

I am not sure, if this was a good move to really go on and only call it World Cup. Maybe in New Zealand, everybody knows that it is the women's edition, but globally?
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Tue, 04 Feb 2020, 09:33

RugbyLiebe wrote:I am not sure, if this was a good move to really go on and only call it World Cup. Maybe in New Zealand, everybody knows that it is the women's edition, but globally?


I find World Rugby really annoying when it comes to women's rugby. In their whole article they don't even mention it's women's rugby. And on their match fixtures you can only tell a match is women's rugby by looking at what stadium they're playing in. I don't know why they choose to be so misleading.

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Re: 2021 Womens Rugby World Cup

Postby Canalina » Tue, 04 Feb 2020, 10:03

To note that the event will long ten days more than the previous editions: there's one day of rest more between the pool games and they inserted the quarterfinals. So six matches instead of five, for the teams that reach the final act.
Dates: from september 18 to october 16

18 Sept - Pool matches
23 Sept - Pool matches
28 Sept - Pool matches
3 Oct - Quarter-finals
9 Oct - Semi-finals
16 Oct - Bronze match + FINAL

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