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Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Tue, 30 Jun 2020, 13:42

Figaro wrote:
victorsra wrote:
sk 88 wrote:
theDarky wrote:
sk 88 wrote:The main issue around Team GB in 7s is who funds it, who selects the team and who governs it because it doesn't have a natural governing body.

I think there is a chance this is more kite flying from RFU's CEO Sweeney who is constantly in the media claiming things are happening and everyone is agreeing when they patently are not.


the British Olympic Association can fund it and I think the natural governing body should be the RFU for registering with a common home-nations comitee/company for the selection ...


The BOA isn't a bottomless pit of money. If the unions don't want to pay for it why will they? The BOA is the British tax payer, I don't really see the argument for "relatively rich sport asks for government subsidy because it doesn't want to run sport it campaigned to be introduced only a few years ago". Certainly it would have to be campaigned for, it wouldn't be a given.

If the RFU run it it's the England team, that's how it will be viewed.


How the Lions work? There is a special comitee with representative from the 4 unions, right?

I think the most logical thing is to have a UK Team Ltd run by a comitee of the 3 unions, with money coming from BOA, RFU, WRU, SRU, sharing costs (that would be much less than running alone a team) and spliting sponsorship profits (if achievable). If RFU pays more, SRU and WRU can offer their training centers or whatever. BTW, if the team is based in Wales or Scotland it would make it more British in the eyes of the public, I guess.


I think the people who would follow a GB branded team would follow it no matter where it was based, and those who wouldn't follow it wouldn't care where it was based either.

I don't think enough people care about 7s in the UK to really support the existing sides, so in terms of people paying to watch them it probably doesn't matter what you do, but there are at least some who would be very hostile to the precedent set by a GB rugby team - there was lots of objection to the Olympic teams in the first place, particularly in football where GB didn't used to participate at all.


With football, there is a fear amongst the home nations of losing their FIFA status. There are some people who believe Wales and Scotland aren't really countries, and by competing as Team GB they would be reinforcing this idea. There is absolutely no reason for the Scottish and Welsh rugby unions to have similar fears.

For sports that are both Olympic sports and Commonwealth sports there is a precedent. England and Scotland have separate basketball teams for the Commonwealth Games, but compete as Team GB in non-Commonwealth tournaments. There is no reason why England, Scotland and Wales couldn't do the same for sevens.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby victorsra » Tue, 30 Jun 2020, 14:07

Well, only London hosts a WSS leg, so definitely there wont be much problem...
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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Tue, 30 Jun 2020, 15:36

victorsra wrote:Well, only London hosts a WSS leg, so definitely there wont be much problem...


I completely agree. I believe in London having Team GB competing could raise the profile of the tournament.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby NaBUru38 » Tue, 30 Jun 2020, 17:24

If I were Scottish or Welsh, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't like a British sevens team.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby NaBUru38 » Tue, 30 Jun 2020, 17:30

Meanwhile in New Zealand, the North and South representatives will play each other at Eden Park on August 29.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/121 ... -eden-park

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby NaBUru38 » Tue, 30 Jun 2020, 17:39

And The Telegraph claims that Japan and Fiji will join the 2020 6 Nations...

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby TheStroBro » Tue, 30 Jun 2020, 21:01

victorsra wrote:
How the Lions work? There is a special comitee with representative from the 4 unions, right?

I think the most logical thing is to have a UK Team Ltd run by a comitee of the 3 unions, with money coming from BOA, RFU, WRU, SRU, sharing costs (that would be much less than running alone a team) and spliting sponsorship profits (if achievable). If RFU pays more, SRU and WRU can offer their training centers or whatever. BTW, if the team is based in Wales or Scotland it would make it more British in the eyes of the public, I guess.


Team GB selection is based on qualifying standards of "olympic trials" within the cycle of individual sports. The way it would work for a team sport is BOA funds the coaching staff and the player contracts. The Coaches then have trials for the contracts every year before the season.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 01 Jul 2020, 06:30

NaBUru38 wrote:And The Telegraph claims that Japan and Fiji will join the 2020 6 Nations...


https://www.sportbusiness.com/news/japa ... x-nations/

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How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby theDarky » Wed, 01 Jul 2020, 07:34

They wont join the six nations ....

the 2020 six nations will be finished during the automn and, in parallel, an other competition will take place between the six nations, japan and fidji.

they will be divided in two groups of 4 teams and a final will be organized between the two groups leaders.

Japan has a small number of covid patients and Fiji will be made up of players from European clubs.

North american and south american teams you forget especially the USA ...

NZ and OZ prefers to stay alone (0 risk policy)

South Africa the number of patients is exploding

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Wed, 01 Jul 2020, 07:55

This is a one off tournament to replace the autumn internationals

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 01 Jul 2020, 08:16

Chester-Donnelly wrote:This is a one off tournament to replace the autumn internationals


Yeah, so lets invite Fiji from the other end of the world and Japan.
Crazy thought: why not invite Georgia and Romania/Spain and market it as an European championship. Ah wait, no former colony or new member of the Cartel.
What will the name of this competition be? "Cartel & friends of Bill" "WVFB-Cup - We voted for Bill Cup"?
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby Figaro » Wed, 01 Jul 2020, 08:30

Chester-Donnelly wrote:
With football, there is a fear amongst the home nations of losing their FIFA status. There are some people who believe Wales and Scotland aren't really countries, and by competing as Team GB they would be reinforcing this idea. There is absolutely no reason for the Scottish and Welsh rugby unions to have similar fears.

For sports that are both Olympic sports and Commonwealth sports there is a precedent. England and Scotland have separate basketball teams for the Commonwealth Games, but compete as Team GB in non-Commonwealth tournaments. There is no reason why England, Scotland and Wales couldn't do the same for sevens.


I agree that there would be no danger whatsoever to the independence of Welsh rugby - it's worth far too much money to fold it for political reasons even if there was an appetite.

Speaking personally when I say precedent it's more about the creeping 'Britishisation' of sports in general. It sets a precedent which makes it harder for Wales to remain independent in other sports. It's a little different for sports where there never has been a Wales side (like most Olympics events, where people generally participate as individuals anyway), but this would be a step back to my view.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby theDarky » Wed, 01 Jul 2020, 08:35

RugbyLiebe wrote:
Chester-Donnelly wrote:This is a one off tournament to replace the autumn internationals


Yeah, so lets invite Fiji from the other end of the world and Japan.
Crazy thought: why not invite Georgia and Romania/Spain and market it as an European championship. Ah wait, no former colony or new member of the Cartel.
What will the name of this competition be? "Cartel & friends of Bill" "WVFB-Cup - We voted for Bill Cup"?


The goal is to make money and attractive matches.

Sorry but as french I'm more interested that our national team plays Japan or Fidji.

And if you compare with the IRB rankings, you have the 8 best teams outside the southern hemisphere ones.

And as I explained above most of fidjians plays in Europe.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Wed, 01 Jul 2020, 08:57

Figaro wrote:
Chester-Donnelly wrote:
With football, there is a fear amongst the home nations of losing their FIFA status. There are some people who believe Wales and Scotland aren't really countries, and by competing as Team GB they would be reinforcing this idea. There is absolutely no reason for the Scottish and Welsh rugby unions to have similar fears.

For sports that are both Olympic sports and Commonwealth sports there is a precedent. England and Scotland have separate basketball teams for the Commonwealth Games, but compete as Team GB in non-Commonwealth tournaments. There is no reason why England, Scotland and Wales couldn't do the same for sevens.


I agree that there would be no danger whatsoever to the independence of Welsh rugby - it's worth far too much money to fold it for political reasons even if there was an appetite.

Speaking personally when I say precedent it's more about the creeping 'Britishisation' of sports in general. It sets a precedent which makes it harder for Wales to remain independent in other sports. It's a little different for sports where there never has been a Wales side (like most Olympics events, where people generally participate as individuals anyway), but this would be a step back to my view.


You make a good point. This Britishisation is a real thing. If Team GB keeps creeping outside of Olympic Games nations like Wales are delegitimised a little bit. The English won't notice or care but the Welsh do have reason to be worried.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby GeoRugby » Wed, 01 Jul 2020, 11:34

Forget about inviting Georgia Romania/Spain into this tournament. That would be so naive to even imagine, right? Lets see if French can keep their word and play Georgia on November 7th.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby Figaro » Fri, 03 Jul 2020, 15:36

BBC article with statements from both Welsh and Scottish rugby unions that any merger will be temporary as preparation for the Olympics and there is no intention to permanently shed the 7s teams of either nation in favour of a GB side.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/53278983

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby victorsra » Fri, 03 Jul 2020, 15:59

This is sensible from them, because they can simply see how this goes and get ready to rethink their finances. But again, to be out of the World Series doesn't mean to end the sevens teams, as we already pointed out.

However, if the merge but want to return, what WR would do with their spots? Now that idea of having 3 invited teams becomes a reality.
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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby Armchair Fan » Fri, 03 Jul 2020, 16:38

I don't see it fair. Merging and then being allowed to return means Wales for example is spared another season from potential relegation.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby victorsra » Fri, 03 Jul 2020, 17:01

This breaks the promotion/relegation system, basicaly.
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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Sat, 04 Jul 2020, 07:30

I am fed up with Great Britain being inconsistent and inconsiderate. A spot in the World Series is much more important to Germany than it is to Wales and Scotland. Rugby Sevens is an Olympic sport. If Great Britain is not in the World Series then they shouldn't be in the Olympic Games. Why are they allowed to pick and choose what they are? No one else does that. Spain is very good at basketball but it doesn't enter a Catalan team in EuroBasket.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby victorsra » Sat, 04 Jul 2020, 13:44

The argument that Welsh sevens team is important to develop years is not that convincing because Wales already has more PRO14 teams that they can sustain.... if they were all performing like the Irish teams they could argue that. But never did.

In the other hand, Scotland may justify the sevens with this argument as they only have 2 PRO14 teams....
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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Sat, 04 Jul 2020, 14:40

victorsra wrote:The argument that Welsh sevens team is important to develop years is not that convincing because Wales already has more PRO14 teams that they can sustain.... if they were all performing like the Irish teams they could argue that. But never did.

In the other hand, Scotland may justify the sevens with this argument as they only have 2 PRO14 teams....


I think part of the problem with Scotland giving up their Sevens team is they believe they invented Sevens.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby victorsra » Sat, 04 Jul 2020, 19:50

Well, they did :lol: They can remember that in the Commowealth Games, Grand Prix 7s and even Rugby World Cup 7s. But they are wasting money in the World Series.
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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby Chester-Donnelly » Sat, 04 Jul 2020, 21:33

victorsra wrote:Well, they did :lol: They can remember that in the Commowealth Games, Grand Prix 7s and even Rugby World Cup 7s. But they are wasting money in the World Series.


Victor, I completely agree. Sometimes I think the Scots are being deliberately awkward.

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Re: Growing rugby in Tier 1 nations

Postby Armchair Fan » Sat, 04 Jul 2020, 21:47

Well, some would find awkward to define such a feeling as arkwardness while flying the English flag under your nickname...

If their presence in World Series is disputed it must be through cold facts, not attacking people beliefs and feelings.

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