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OFFICIAL Women's Rugby Rankings

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Re: OFFICIAL Women's Rugby Rankings

Postby RugbyLiebe » Mon, 20 Jan 2020, 15:18

Canalina wrote:World Rugby started to clean a bit the ranking: a lot of national teams, included Portugal, lost 6 points in the passage from 2019 to 2020


And there goes Portugal well thought out plan of reaching the top10 by not playing at all. Small step, but a shame that they are still up there in the top 20 ahead of active unions.

Edit: just saw that World Rugby went full on "Worst federation in the World" by trying to cover this shame up by not showing ranking chances between this week and last week where Portugal still had 6 points more.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: OFFICIAL Women's Rugby Rankings

Postby Canalina » Mon, 20 Jan 2020, 18:33

I doubt they must be awarded with the "Worst world confederation" prize just because they (maybe voluntarily, maybe not) hided some position changes in the ranking. They've just co-organized a wonderful World Cup in Japan, maybe we should count a bit also things like that

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Re: OFFICIAL Women's Rugby Rankings

Postby johnbirch » Mon, 20 Jan 2020, 20:36

RugbyLiebe wrote:
Canalina wrote:World Rugby started to clean a bit the ranking: a lot of national teams, included Portugal, lost 6 points in the passage from 2019 to 2020


And there goes Portugal well thought out plan of reaching the top10 by not playing at all. Small step, but a shame that they are still up there in the top 20 ahead of active unions.

Edit: just saw that World Rugby went full on "Worst federation in the World" by trying to cover this shame up by not showing ranking chances between this week and last week where Portugal still had 6 points more.

Some of the resulting changes are really quite big. Colombia leap up 9 places to 29th.

Other big gainers include:
Tonga (28), Madagascar (34), Switzerland (35) (up 8)
Zambia (27), Singapore (32), Uganda (39), India (42) & Brazil (43) (up 7)
Zimbabwe (38), Papua NG (41), Czechia (45), Finland (47) (up 6)
Philippines (51) (up 5)

Biggest losers:
Thailand, Uzbekistan & Cayman Is (down 11)
Namibia & Botswana (-9)
Bosnia (-8)
Luxembourg (-7)
Romania, Norway (-6)
Portugal, Serbia (-5)

Suspect they did not go further as the complexities of taking away 6 for teams who did not play in 2018 but did in 2019 would have been complex, and if you took it further back than that it would rewrite the whole thing. With WC qualiiers being now partly based on these rankings the shouts would have been too loud.

I also notice that Botswana have finally sneaked in - as they should have been because Namibia were there.

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Re: OFFICIAL Women's Rugby Rankings

Postby Canalina » Mon, 20 Jan 2020, 22:19

The criterium to take away those points should have been to have not played in the last two seasons. Belgium, indeed, didn't play in 2019 but played in 2018 and there was not penalization for them. All the other 18 nations that didn't play in 2019 were not on the field in 2018 too and they have been all penalized (7 nations from the Caribbean, 7 from Europe, 2 from Africa, 2 from Asia)

Last test match played (as far as we know)
PORTUGAL 1995
TRINIDAD & TOBAGO 2011
BELGIUM 2018
DENMARK 2004
JAMAICA 2011
GUYANA 2008
ROMANIA 2008
NORWAY 2009
BOSNIA & HERZEGOVINA 2005
THAILAND 2012
UZBEKISTAN 2011
CAYMAN 2011
NAMIBIA 2013
BOTSWANA 2017
LUXEMBOURG 2007
SERBIA 2007
BARBADOS 2009
ST.VINCENT & GRENADINES 2009
BAHAMAS 2010

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Re: OFFICIAL Women's Rugby Rankings

Postby victorsra » Tue, 21 Jan 2020, 02:15

Venezuela is still missing and they have played Colombia in 2003...
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Re: OFFICIAL Women's Rugby Rankings

Postby Canalina » Tue, 21 Jan 2020, 08:13

World Rugby can't know it. If Venezuela or Colombia don't produce a documentation of that/those game/s and transmit it to World Rugby, I doubt that they may discover the fact by their own.

I wonder who surveil the correct working of the world ranking, into World Rugby. I mean, I wonder if there are one or more persons dedicated to this duty or if it's just one of the many tasks (a minor one) of the staff. This second hypothesis would suggest why the women's ranking remained so untouched and apparently unsurveiled for many years (and I think that also this decision, to take over abruptly 6 points from eighteen nations, no matter if they don't play from 1995 or from 2017, is too simple e quite unfair).

A collateral effect of all these penalizations is that the general points amount dropped down, averagely by two points per nation; now a debutant nation would enter in the ranking almost in the middle of it (if they maintain 40.00 points as entry level), which is a bit unfair because obviously a debutant nation should enter more or less at the end of the chart

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Re: OFFICIAL Women's Rugby Rankings

Postby RugbyLiebe » Tue, 21 Jan 2020, 08:36

Canalina wrote:I doubt they must be awarded with the "Worst world confederation" prize just because they (maybe voluntarily, maybe not) hided some position changes in the ranking. They've just co-organized a wonderful World Cup in Japan, maybe we should count a bit also things like that


Sorry, but changing a ranking and not writing an article about it is a no-go. Actively promoting an apartheid system is a no-go. Protecting nations over others, due to them being more "traditional" is a no-go. Accepting private continental tournaments in a Olympic sport is a no-go. Ignoring written competition contracts is a no-go. Even thinking that Japan wouldn't be more than capable to organize a perfect world cup is a no-go (the cancelled games is World Rugby stuff btw. as they messed up their competition rules).
And back to Women's rugby allowing a team who hasn't played a single game since 25 years (!) still in the rankings at all is a no-go and qualifies for the World's worst sport federation. I like that you prefer to see the positives, but with World Rugby that's not good enough, as they chose to only see the positives themselves all the time and this led to the catastrophy of a federation it is.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: OFFICIAL Women's Rugby Rankings

Postby victorsra » Tue, 21 Jan 2020, 14:49

Canalina wrote:World Rugby can't know it. If Venezuela or Colombia don't produce a documentation of that/those game/s and transmit it to World Rugby, I doubt that they may discover the fact by their own.

I wonder who surveil the correct working of the world ranking, into World Rugby. I mean, I wonder if there are one or more persons dedicated to this duty or if it's just one of the many tasks (a minor one) of the staff. This second hypothesis would suggest why the women's ranking remained so untouched and apparently unsurveiled for many years (and I think that also this decision, to take over abruptly 6 points from eighteen nations, no matter if they don't play from 1995 or from 2017, is too simple e quite unfair).

A collateral effect of all these penalizations is that the general points amount dropped down, averagely by two points per nation; now a debutant nation would enter in the ranking almost in the middle of it (if they maintain 40.00 points as entry level), which is a bit unfair because obviously a debutant nation should enter more or less at the end of the chart

World Rugby knows. They published last year about it!
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Re: OFFICIAL Women's Rugby Rankings

Postby Canalina » Tue, 21 Jan 2020, 15:28

You are right, I forgot it

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Re: OFFICIAL Women's Rugby Rankings

Postby rey200 » Tue, 21 Jan 2020, 19:50

So now that the top 10 plan by not playing didn't pan out, Portugal might start to play again, eh?
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Re: OFFICIAL Women's Rugby Rankings

Postby Armchair Fan » Tue, 21 Jan 2020, 20:19

They just called their second training camp of their national team, I wouldn't be surprised if they play something next Autumn. They are much more prepared than lots of European nations in spite of the lack of a proper XV league.

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Re: OFFICIAL Women's Rugby Rankings

Postby Canalina » Tue, 21 Jan 2020, 20:34

A note on the amount of the penalization (6 points) for the non playing nations: I still think that it's too harsh, but it could have a logic. World Rugby could have thought: "if you don't play for two years in a row, we pretend that you have played one test per year, but having you not really played we assign you the worst possible loss for a single game, id est 3 ranking points. Three points multiplied for two (not really played) test matches give a total of 6 ranking points lost in two years"

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Re: OFFICIAL Women's Rugby Rankings

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 22 Jan 2020, 07:56

Canalina wrote:A note on the amount of the penalization (6 points) for the non playing nations: I still think that it's too harsh, but it could have a logic.


In the year of the silver anniversary of their only ever played game (which they lost 0:50 against a team they rank above (Germany)) being still ranked in the top20 doesn't sound that harsh to me. :D

The applied logic sounds about right. Hopefully they don't forget about it for the next year, like World Rugby tends to often do.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: OFFICIAL Women's Rugby Rankings

Postby Canalina » Wed, 22 Jan 2020, 10:05

To me it's harsh also because it doesn't re-destribute those removed points to other teams (like it usually happens for the matches really played). So the general ranking is heavily impoverished (6 points x 18 nations = 108 points globally taken away), and it is impoverished mostly in the bottom positions; it's like the real world, the gap between richest and poorest increase more and more!...
And the women's ranking seemed already very stretched, with big gap between some nations (it's not rare that a team wins a game, gains 3 points in the ranking but zero positions, because the team ahead of if has more than three points of advantage)

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Re: OFFICIAL Women's Rugby Rankings

Postby victorsra » Wed, 22 Jan 2020, 14:23

Armchair Fan wrote:They just called their second training camp of their national team, I wouldn't be surprised if they play something next Autumn. They are much more prepared than lots of European nations in spite of the lack of a proper XV league.

yes, they already have Sporting doing well
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Re: OFFICIAL Women's Rugby Rankings

Postby victorsra » Wed, 22 Jan 2020, 14:29

Canalina wrote:To me it's harsh also because it doesn't re-destribute those removed points to other teams (like it usually happens for the matches really played). So the general ranking is heavily impoverished (6 points x 18 nations = 108 points globally taken away), and it is impoverished mostly in the bottom positions; it's like the real world, the gap between richest and poorest increase more and more!...
And the women's ranking seemed already very stretched, with big gap between some nations (it's not rare that a team wins a game, gains 3 points in the ranking but zero positions, because the team ahead of if has more than three points of advantage)

I think it is not harsh because in fact the team doesn't exist anymore. It is realy bizarre to have Czechia playing and being RE Trophy champions and stll being in the last positions while a non-existent team is in the top half of the ranking.

IMO, after 4 years inactive (1 World Cup cycle), a team should be out of the ranking and start from the minimum point. It is fair with those that exist. The ranking only exists to show the relation of forces of teams that do exist. In both women's and men's rankings. In the other hand, 1 test match should be enough for a team to enter the ranking (thinking about the men's ranking).
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Re: OFFICIAL Women's Rugby Rankings

Postby RugbyLiebe » Wed, 22 Jan 2020, 15:07

Canalina wrote:To me it's harsh also because it doesn't re-destribute those removed points to other teams (like it usually happens for the matches really played). So the general ranking is heavily impoverished (6 points x 18 nations = 108 points globally taken away), and it is impoverished mostly in the bottom positions; it's like the real world, the gap between richest and poorest increase more and more!...
And the women's ranking seemed already very stretched, with big gap between some nations (it's not rare that a team wins a game, gains 3 points in the ranking but zero positions, because the team ahead of if has more than three points of advantage)


That's a valid point. On the other hand the ranking is off anyway due to the different "entry points". I think it is an overall indicator, that this kind of ranking doesn't really work for a sport, where nations regularly drop out and stay inactive for years. Maybe a ranking with only the last five years involved would work better. Thing is that rugby wants to show that women's XV rugby is a world sport, when it actually is extremely niche.
How to grow rugby worldwide?
Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

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Re: OFFICIAL Women's Rugby Rankings

Postby Canalina » Mon, 09 Mar 2020, 12:48

World Rugby has not inserted Guatemala and El Salvador in the rankings, despite the test match played yesterday. After all, the two nations are not WR full members and their match was not on the WR list of matches of this weekend, so this was predictable

Russia overcomes Kazakhstan. According to a very quick search on the ranking history data, it could be the first time that Russia surpasses its former federate State
https://www.world.rugby/rankings/wru

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