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Spanish rugby

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Sun, 18 Oct 2020, 07:50

It could be close, but there are some probable changes:
- There is a loosehead prop missing, probably Thierry Futeu
- Among locks, Mickaël de Marco is retired due to injury, we would call probably Joshua Peters
- Asier Usárraga is currently injured but would be a non-missable choice in the third row, as well as Fred Quercy which is going to Uruguay
- As scrum-half, Tomás Munilla could be choice ahead of his brother
- Fly-half is a huge doubt. Linklater came out of international retirement last Spring but should be done now. Together with Rubio there are David Mélé, Bautista Güemes, Joris Segonds, Gonzalo Vinuesa, maybe Iñaki Mateu...
- Centres: Thibaut Álvarez would fit better here, together with Sevens guys like Alejandro Alonso or Joan Losada
- Wings: Jordi Jorba is injured, like Guillermo Domínguez. Martín Alonso is young but debuted in last REC
- Fullbacks, there is JW Bell missing

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Sun, 18 Oct 2020, 07:55

2019-20 Copa del Rey final - SilverStorm El Salvador v Lexus Alcobendas - Sunday 12:30 CET


Hardly possible to bet on the result. El Salvador has a great starting XV but in a bet on local talent has 'only' seven foreigners while Alcobendas has kept doing great signings this summer, even though some fell injured (Belgian international Isaac Montoisy, Argentinian expected to go MLR Joton González...).

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Sun, 18 Oct 2020, 17:16

Lexus Alcobendas clinched their second straight Copa del Rey title after winning 18-24 earlier today.

Given Jotón's injury (entered the field in the final minutes), Tiki Inchausti put as starting fly-half a Spaniard (!), Javier López (known from Spain U18 and U20). Not only he was their fly-half but kicked (!!), had a 8/9 success rate (!!!) and scored all Alcobendas points.

OK, most penalties were kickable and El Salvador had poor discipline, but seeing such a performance by a young Spanish player make me want to ask for a wish... In many División de Honor rounds we only had 1 Spanish fly-half out of 12 and very rarely with kicking responsibilities.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Mon, 19 Oct 2020, 09:45

FER has outsourced a big bunch of their responsibilities to Kiwi House, Classic All Blacks game and All Blacks training camps promoters:
https://www.palco23.com/competiciones/e ... inios.html

According to the article, they are behind a TV deal for División de Honor that will start next January, will be launching new national team kit in the next week and will be looking for sponsors in the next few years. In addition to that, they are helping FER with comms as well after helping Alfonso Feijóo to win elections last summer.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Mon, 19 Oct 2020, 16:44

Teaser from new kits. No big surprises: red for home shirt and yellow for alternate

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Tue, 20 Oct 2020, 10:44

There goes the new shirt


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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Thu, 22 Oct 2020, 22:51

División de Honor 2020-21 starts this weekend, so it's probably a good moment to try to summarise the current state of affairs in Spanish domestic rugby.

Let's remember that format has been changed for this season in order to reduce the length of the season and allow enough rest weekend so games can be postponed. A club needs to have five players being tested positive to be allowed to postpone a game and can request a postponement up to three times.

We will have a first round robin phase of 11 games. Leader after this phase could be crowned champion if COVID heavily impacts the season. Then teams will be divided into two groups: Top 6 and Bottom 6. Five further games will determine quarterfinalists (Top 6 plus best two from Bottom 6) and their seedings. If playoffs couldn't be held, Top 6 leader will be crowned champion.

Overall, everybody expects a huge downgrade in the average level of the league. Not only training has taken place with barely any contact and team arrive with probably just one preseason game, but budgets have been reduced (30-40%), international signings are complicated (not only because of travel restrictions: Spain was an attractive destination for SH players who now don't accept to take such a risk for low salaries) and FER reduced the number of "JIFF" (players with four seasons in Spain between age 14 and 22 or eligible for national team) allowed on field to only 6. This comes along with tightened checks of eligible players.

Valladolid teams look more vulnerable than ever, although VRAC Quesos Entrepinares should still be favorite while SilverStorm El Salvador options are quite unknown. Both have lost many foreigners. VRAC replaced them with some quality signings from other DH clubs (Moala from Ordizia, Carrió from Burgos) plus Alejandro Alonso coming back from 7s, while El Salvador changed its president and was already expected pre-COVID to bet on their guys. They fielded 'only' 7/23 foreigners in Copa del Rey final compared to Alcobendas 18/23... but they are expected to sign people from Mitre 10 once it's over according to El Tercer Tiempo COPE.

Main outside contender is obviously Lexus Alcobendas. They are filled with foreigners and maybe their weakness was Spanish players, as they lost two or three veterans over the summer, yet Javier López excelled in Copa del Rey final. Ampo Ordizia was on upward trend and seems to have signed well, preserving their philosophy of 7-8 extremely good foreigners mixed with local guys, but let's see how losing Fernando López and Siosiua Moala plus having Goia brothers involved in national team (too many clashes, guys are already on their way to Uruguay) impact them. Barça Rugbi keeps gathering Argentinians and Catalan youngsters while UE Santboiana slowly improves in order to shine in 2021 for their centenary, so should be competing to complete Top 6 with Aldro Independiente, UBU-Colina Clinic and Ciencias Olavide.

Complutense Cisneros and Getxo Rugby probably will just try to survive against whoever gets promoted this weekend... because yes, DH starts with only 11 teams after Bathco's sinking. Hernani (relegated) and Les Abelles (3rd best team in DHB) will meet this Sunday in a clash where the Basque team should be heave favorites considering their experience. To be honest a club from Valencia wouldn't hurt our league.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby ficcp » Fri, 23 Oct 2020, 02:16

Very good summary. I have 2 questions :

1.- Which is the club with the strongest financial support from the Sponsor?Are there big differences among them?

2.- How many foreign players of LEXUS ALCOBENDAS are ellegible to play for Spain?

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Fri, 23 Oct 2020, 08:48

ficcp wrote:1.- Which is the club with the strongest financial support from the Sponsor?Are there big differences among them?

I don't think it is possible to tell which title sponsor gives a bigger financial support because deals aren't disclosed. We know Burgos town hall gives 150,000€ to UBU-Colina Clinic which is believed to be the biggest public support in Spanish rugby. In other clubs like VRAC Quesos Entrepinares public support isn't that big (15% out of a total expected budget of 750,000€). I'd say there, even Quesos Entrepinares doesn't give that much money, it's more of a combination of several private sponsors (35 in their website), social support (becoming socio costs 120€ per year) and parallel activities. I know that in División de Honor B some title sponsors pay 40,000€ per year, which isn't much.

Budget gaps are wide in División de Honor. Last year Valladolid clubs neared 1,000,000€ with around 400,000€ for first teams. You probably need at least 270,000€ for first team to be reasonably competitive in DH.

ficcp wrote:2.- How many foreign players of LEXUS ALCOBENDAS are ellegible to play for Spain?

Tricky question without defining foreign :D

Let me try to answer it in a complete way. Out of 23 players in Copa del Rey final match sheet there were 18 foreign-born and 8 of them are considered like Spanish JIFF... but not all of them are eligible. Niels van de Ven counts as JIFF (jugador de formación) because he spent four years in Santboiana aged between 14 and 22, yet he was born in South Africa and has played for Netherlands. So in fact 7 foreigners count as JIFF and are eligible: Santiago Ovejero, Joaquín Domínguez (capped), Luciano Molina, Mana Williams, Richard Stewart (capped), Mauri Londoño (trained with national XV and 7s team, not really foreigner since he's grown in Spain), Matt Foulds (capped).

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Fri, 23 Oct 2020, 12:23


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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Sat, 24 Oct 2020, 09:00

División de Honor 2020-21 - Round 1 - Live Streaming
Saturday 14:00 CEST - Barça Rugbi v UE Santboiana
https://www.ccma.cat/tv3/alacarta/trans ... o/6065792/

Saturday 16:00 CEST - Lexus Alcobendas v Getxo Rugby

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Sun, 25 Oct 2020, 09:52

División de Honor 2020-21 - Round 1 - Live Streaming
Sunday 12:00 CET - Ampo Ordizia v Aldro Independiente


Sunday 12:00 CET - SilverStorm El Salvador v Universidad de Burgos-Bajo Cero


Sunday 12:30 CET - Ciencias Olavide v VRAC Quesos Entrepinares


Promotion Play-off - Live Streaming
Sunday 14:00 CET - Hernani v Les Abelles
Last edited by Armchair Fan on Tue, 27 Oct 2020, 14:46, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Sun, 25 Oct 2020, 15:35

División de Honor 2020-21 - Round 1 - Results and Standings
Barça Rugbi 18 - 12 UE Santboiana
Lexus Alcobendas 39 - 6 Getxo Rugby
Ampo Ordizia 49 - 14 Aldro Independiente
SilverStorm El Salvador 32 - 0 Universidad de Burgos-Bajo Cero
Ciencias Olavide 6 - 35 VRAC Quesos Entrepiares

Cisneros had no game given Bathco's demise. 12th team will be Les Abelles after they narrowly beat Hernani 12-13, so Valencia finally gets its DH team.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby rugby-veterinarian » Mon, 26 Oct 2020, 01:21

I really think it would do a lot of good for Spain to play Argentina XV next time they tour South America. Maybe next year, play 2 or 3 games, could really help develop Spain and maybe help them to get over the Georgia and Romania hump. Plus who knows it just might develop a little rivalry too. Anyways real excited to see Spain play again , I have a good feeling they will qualify for the next rugby World Cup.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Tobar » Mon, 26 Oct 2020, 16:51

rugby-veterinarian wrote:I really think it would do a lot of good for Spain to play Argentina XV next time they tour South America. Maybe next year, play 2 or 3 games, could really help develop Spain and maybe help them to get over the Georgia and Romania hump. Plus who knows it just might develop a little rivalry too. Anyways real excited to see Spain play again , I have a good feeling they will qualify for the next rugby World Cup.


And if they are unable to get Argentina XV together for whatever reason then they can play the Ceibos.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby ficcp » Mon, 26 Oct 2020, 18:44

It would be good to establish a rivalry between Spain and Chile also. The games against the Leones, Romania and Portugal were important for the improvement of the chilean team. We could receive these 3 teams them every two years and visit them in between. It was unfortunate that the match against Spain in November could not be arranged.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Mon, 26 Oct 2020, 18:46

What would be different from the times we've faced Argentina XV in Nations Cup? Unfortunately in June/July and basically any South American tour we've got our hands tied regarding players selection and released, plus any game counting towards ranking will be favored over a game against a non-ranked side.

Regarding Chile and Brazil, I'm all for receiving them in tours but to be honest their form should improve a bit in November, at least from what we've seen in previous years. They are often different beasts far from home and at the end of their seasons.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby ficcp » Mon, 26 Oct 2020, 19:23

Armchair Fan wrote:What would be different from the times we've faced Argentina XV in Nations Cup? Unfortunately in June/July and basically any South American tour we've got our hands tied regarding players selection and released, plus any game counting towards ranking will be favored over a game against a non-ranked side.

Regarding Chile and Brazil, I'm all for receiving them in tours but to be honest their form should improve a bit in November, at least from what we've seen in previous years. They are often different beasts far from home and at the end of their seasons.


Chile was heavily defeated by Spain back in 2015 as a visitor(10-54), but the match in June 2019 played in Chile was much tigther (22-29). A lot of things have changed for good in Chile since 2015 and, given the special condition of Argentina XV, the message would be "Southamerica is not only Argentina and Uruguay" fot T2 teams.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Mon, 26 Oct 2020, 19:38

I'm not putting in doubt Chile competitiveness at home, not even in South America. I'm talking about touring Europe in November. Even Uruguay has struggled sometimes. Brazil too but won one game. Obviously the best way to check this is by making it happen, but if I were World Rugby manager I'd try to have Netherlands or Belgium mixed with us, Portugal, Russia or Romania.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby victorsra » Mon, 26 Oct 2020, 20:36

Armchair Fan wrote:What would be different from the times we've faced Argentina XV in Nations Cup? Unfortunately in June/July and basically any South American tour we've got our hands tied regarding players selection and released, plus any game counting towards ranking will be favored over a game against a non-ranked side.

Regarding Chile and Brazil, I'm all for receiving them in tours but to be honest their form should improve a bit in November, at least from what we've seen in previous years. They are often different beasts far from home and at the end of their seasons.


True, but, if nothing changes, ARC would end in mid/late September. Brazilians and Chileans would have the whole October to get ready to tour Europe.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Mon, 26 Oct 2020, 22:33

By the way, ficcp, this recent article on two struggling top-tier sides (one from DH, the other from women's DH Iberdrola) has some interesting info on financial structure from Bathco:
https://www.lainformacion.com/deporte/y ... y/2818904/

- Bathco paid 100,000€ for title sponsoring plus 45,000€ as a soft loan
- Santander town hall gave them 75,000€
- Cantabria regional government gave them 30,000€

All 17 Bathco professional players found new clubs in less than 48 hours.

--

As usual Valladolid clubs are at the top in way more aspects than on-field performance. Two examples, both managed by Emisiones Deportivas/Terrible Producciones, the usual rugby broadcaster in the city.

VRAC launched its socios and season ticket-holders campaign with an online presentation instead of a press conference


And El Salvador is announcing a pregame TV show on the club
https://twitter.com/Chami_Rugby/status/ ... 1022901248

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby ficcp » Tue, 27 Oct 2020, 01:53

Armchair Fan wrote:By the way, ficcp, this recent article on two struggling top-tier sides (one from DH, the other from women's DH Iberdrola) has some interesting info on financial structure from Bathco:
https://www.lainformacion.com/deporte/y ... y/2818904/

- Bathco paid 100,000€ for title sponsoring plus 45,000€ as a soft loan
- Santander town hall gave them 75,000€
- Cantabria regional government gave them 30,000€

All 17 Bathco professional players found new clubs in less than 48 hours.

--

As usual Valladolid clubs are at the top in way more aspects than on-field performance. Two examples, both managed by Emisiones Deportivas/Terrible Producciones, the usual rugby broadcaster in the city.

It is surprising the policy of FER on this matter. I would write off the fine because we are not in normal times. The addition of the local and regiomal governments contributions was higher than the cash supplied by the sponsor, which I suppose is not the case for the 2 clubs from valladolid.
I hope Santander will recuperate the place in the future, it seems they were doing a good job in a short time.
VRAC launched its socios and season ticket-holders campaign with an online presentation instead of a press conference


And El Salvador is announcing a pregame TV show on the club
https://twitter.com/Chami_Rugby/status/ ... 1022901248

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Tue, 27 Oct 2020, 14:57

ficcp wrote:It is surprising the policy of FER on this matter. I would write off the fine because we are not in normal times. The addition of the local and regiomal governments contributions was higher than the cash supplied by the sponsor, which I suppose is not the case for the 2 clubs from valladolid.
I hope Santander will recuperate the place in the future, it seems they were doing a good job in a short time.

The fine is there to refrain any other team from doing so as late as they did. Just two or three weeks before Vigo declined to play División de Honor B (players decided it wasn't worth the risk) and they simply gave their spot to another club from Galicia without fines.

Indeed, Valladolid clubs haven't got that much support from town hall and regional government, but they also benefit from best infrastructure in the country and it is publicly owned and expanded regularly.

Don't worry that much about Santander/Cantabria as they still have Independiente in the top-tier. Nobody wishes a team to go bankrupt and disappear (although it seems CR Santander will survive), but they really went up too quickly without a proper base. Cantabria needs to settle first, their U16 and U18 results aren't something to go crazy about and they really could improve a lot if union and clubs were a bit better managed.

--

Les Abelles has released some info about their budget in the following article:
https://www.palco23.com/clubes/juan-roi ... honor.html

They are aiming at a 650,000€ budget (although they also have a women's side in Spanish second division and will have to field a U23 side, so it's not that much), with billionaire Juan Roig increasing his financial backing as promised if a club from Valencia earned promotion. They claim public funding only represents 20% of their budget.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby ficcp » Tue, 27 Oct 2020, 18:32

I just read that LEXUS ALCOBENDAS was captained by Matías Cabrera ( a former Condor) in the final of Copa del rey. Unfortunately, he can not play for Chile because he is not a full pro Rugby player. The commitment to his formal job does not allow him to come to Chile or America for the Sudamericano or ARC. He plans to continue playing for ALCOBENDAS but he is not eligible for Spain.

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Re: Spanish rugby

Postby Armchair Fan » Tue, 27 Oct 2020, 18:45

Yes, he isn't the only Chilean in the league. Aldo Cornejo is in Independiente and acts as S&C coach there, Nico Herreros and Augusto Sarmiento are in Burgos and there is probably somebody else who didn't play this week. In previous seasons we had Velarde brothers, Bordigoni, Verschae, Casas...

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